Should we look to trade Keon after this season?

[billsfan89]

2 hours ago, Charles Romes said:

Seems like most of that vaunted WR draft class is overrated. Harrison a possible bust. Odunze onderwhelming. Nabers great but bad career compromising injury. BTJ stunning collapse year two. Worthy - KC faithful see a possible bust, Pearsoll - we’ll give him a pass but not showing much. Polk Corley and Mitchell on second teams already. Burton an embarrassment. Ladd may be the only one of ten performing at least at his draft position. 

 

Yeah that WR class is looking rough esp after the first few picks. I think the top 4 picks are doing OK to good but after that it gets ugly. Odunze is coming on his second year, he's roughly on pace for just over 1k yards and 9-11 TD's he had a bad rookie year but he's making an impact in year 2 as the Bears top WR. Nabers is great he just had a bad injury. Harrison is uneven but I think if you watch him he can clearly play as a top 2 WR in the league, he may not justify his top draft status but he is a starting caliber WR. BTJ is having a stunning collapse but he was so electric his rookie year that I think you have to kind of give him a chance to turn it around. 

 

After those top 4 guys man it's one player whose been good and a lot of busts and "works in progress". Worthy is not making a major impact in KC certainly still work in progress as he does flash on gadget plays. Pearsall is showing some flashes but very much still a role player on a less than effective at times offense "work in progress" is accurate on him. Keon we all know is a work in progress to be generous and trending towards bust status. Ladd is the one guy who is a hit and then the rest of 2nd and early 3rd down WR's are not looking good. 

 

I wonder if the Bills in the off-season are looking for a WR if they should consider trying to trade for BTJ or MHJ? If you offered a 2nd round pick in 2026 (likely a pick in the 50-64 range) and a mid round pick in 2027 would that be enough to pry one of those guys away? 

[The Jokeman]

2 hours ago, Kelly to Allen said:

 

Do you think if Coleman was anything of substance as a wr he would be inactive on a team desperate for wr talent?

 

I understand suck is a strong word but everyone drafted relatively early can obviously make a play.

 

"Suck" here means that the player in question was drafted to be a starter, or solid contributor, and is overall a net negative.

 

I am at the point now where I think we can say Coleman getting snaps throughout a game is a net negative. I think if kj hamler was playing, he would be better.

 

Trust me I hate saying this but like I said before in a previous thread everything with Keon Coleman seems extremely forced and awkward. 

 

This is just my speculation and I have zero sources, but I think things are way worse than we realize and it's not just because Keon Coleman was late for a few team meetings. I think that's what the bills organization is telling us. 

 

I don't think he's a bad person or anything, I just think he's extremely overwhelmed and the bills said just make him inactive. 

 

he's going to be traded for whatever late pick in the off-season too.

 

 

 

 

 

 

But 40-50 yards with 4-5 targets IS a contribution. Hell was Gabe great this weekend? Nope he made plays on the limited attempts he got. Pretty similar to what Keon did the week before but I know you're expecting more from him based on draft position. Which is great at assessing value, so yeah Keon's not as valuable as you'd hope but again still a contributor. He got benched on Sunday because of missing meeting not field performance. 

[Kirby Jackson]

5 minutes ago, billsfan89 said:

 

Yeah that WR class is looking rough esp after the first few picks. I think the top 4 picks are doing OK to good but after that it gets ugly. Odunze is coming on his second year, he's roughly on pace for just over 1k yards and 9-11 TD's he had a bad rookie year but he's making an impact in year 2 as the Bears top WR. Nabers is great he just had a bad injury. Harrison is uneven but I think if you watch him he can clearly play as a top 2 WR in the league, he may not justify his top draft status but he is a starting caliber WR. BTJ is having a stunning collapse but he was so electric his rookie year that I think you have to kind of give him a chance to turn it around. 

 

After those top 4 guys man it's one player whose been good and a lot of busts and "works in progress". Worthy is not making a major impact in KC certainly still work in progress as he does flash on gadget plays. Pearsall is showing some flashes but very much still a role player on a less than effective at times offense "work in progress" is accurate on him. Keon we all know is a work in progress to be generous and trending towards bust status. Ladd is the one guy who is a hit and then the rest of 2nd and early 3rd down WR's are not looking good. 

 

I wonder if the Bills in the off-season are looking for a WR if they should consider trying to trade for BTJ or MHJ? If you offered a 2nd round pick in 2026 (likely a pick in the 50-64 range) and a mid round pick in 2027 would that be enough to pry one of those guys away? 

I don’t think that gets MHJ. It MAY get BTJ. Harrison was really coming on with Brissett at QB. The Jags seem fed up with BTJ. The Bills tried to get him at the deadline. I don’t know what was offered but they were trying. I’d imagine that they’ll try again.

 

The trade that I keep throwing out is Torrence and a pick for Higgins. The Bills aren’t going to pay him $20m+ a year (I don’t think). They have some depth there and can get there number 1 that way.

[GunnerBill]

29 minutes ago, BADOLBILZ said:

 

 

Meh.......I think Shakir is trending toward becoming an injury fail.

 

He's not good at avoiding big hits and it's taken it's toll.   He was a liability on the field last week.

 

So there might be room for Coleman to develop in the slot if retained in 2026.

 

What would be Billsy is if they got rid of Coleman(and Samuel and Moore) and then Shakir continues to accumulate a brand new injury every week and turns into Terrel Bernard 2.0 while Glass Kincaid continues to shatter on contact.  

 

Maybe. I just don't think the upside is worth it, especially given the off field behaviour.

[The Jokeman]

37 minutes ago, Kirby Jackson said:

Oh no, we aren’t doing this. Over the equivalent of the last 17 games, Coleman has caught 41% of the balls thrown his way!! He doesn’t get volume because he doesn’t get open!! Ladd has caught 64% of the balls thrown his way this year and 73% of them last year. Don’t you think if Keon were open more they’d throw him the ball more?!?

Keon's also being thrown long routes toward the sideline which a lot harder to complete than most routes it may play a part. tThat catch% you quote Ladds actually gotten worse from last year from 73% to 64% compared to Keon that improved from to 50% to 65%  but hmmmm guess Keon sucks.

Edited 2 hours ago by The Jokeman

[Kelly to Allen]

21 minutes ago, The Jokeman said:

But 40-50 yards with 4-5 targets IS a contribution. Hell was Gabe great this weekend? Nope he made plays on the limited attempts he got. Pretty similar to what Keon did the week before but I know you're expecting more from him based on draft position. Which is great at assessing value, so yeah Keon's not as valuable as you'd hope but again still a contributor. He got benched on Sunday because of missing meeting not field performance. 

 

I hope you are right. I am done trying to pretend Keon is something. And I'm more optimistic than most on this board.

 

 

[billsfan89]

13 minutes ago, Kirby Jackson said:

I don’t think that gets MHJ. It MAY get BTJ. Harrison was really coming on with Brissett at QB. The Jags seem fed up with BTJ. The Bills tried to get him at the deadline. I don’t know what was offered but they were trying. I’d imagine that they’ll try again.

 

The trade that I keep throwing out is Torrence and a pick for Higgins. The Bills aren’t going to pay him $20m+ a year (I don’t think). They have some depth there and can get there number 1 that way.

 

I would rather ride out Torrence for the last year of his rookie deal given that the Bills are likely to have some turnover along the interior O-line next season with McGovern and Edwards both being free agents and the high possibility that at least one if not both are gone. I would rather keep Torrence there so at least one of the three interior O-line players are still there. 

 

I think scouring the trade market for some high risk value like BTJ or MHJ is going to be what it takes since the Bills can't count on finding WR's where they will be drafting (hard for any team to do so) so trying to find a reclamation project who might pop with a better system/QB play is the best way to go. 

[Low Positive]

25 minutes ago, Kirby Jackson said:

I don’t think that gets MHJ. It MAY get BTJ. Harrison was really coming on with Brissett at QB. The Jags seem fed up with BTJ. The Bills tried to get him at the deadline. I don’t know what was offered but they were trying. I’d imagine that they’ll try again.

 

The trade that I keep throwing out is Torrence and a pick for Higgins. The Bills aren’t going to pay him $20m+ a year (I don’t think). They have some depth there and can get there number 1 that way.

Since the Bills are not playing on Sunday, watch the Bengals vs. Pats game. Ja'Marr Chase is suspended, so you get to see what Tee HIggins looks like as a #1 without the best WR in the game drawing double coverage across from him. Flacco, depending on his shoulder, is more than capable of getting him the ball. I he doesn't show out in a must-win game, it will be very telling. 

[mjt328]

2 hours ago, Charles Romes said:

Seems like most of that vaunted WR draft class is overrated. Harrison a possible bust. Odunze onderwhelming. Nabers great but bad career compromising injury. BTJ stunning collapse year two. Worthy - KC faithful see a possible bust, Pearsoll - we’ll give him a pass but not showing much. Polk Corley and Mitchell on second teams already. Burton an embarrassment. Ladd may be the only one of ten performing at least at his draft position. 

 

If I recall, scouts saw that receiver draft class (outside of Harrison, Nabers and Odunze) as mostly #2 guys with high upside.  Most of the other prospects were really strong in some areas, but also had glaring weaknesses that would probably keep them from becoming a WR1 in the NFL.

 

For instance, guys like Thomas and Worthy had elite speed, but big questions on other parts of their game.  McConkey and Pearsall were seen mostly as slot-only receivers.  Coleman and Mitchell had size, but lacked in route-running, etc.

 

I was pretty excited going into that draft with us really needing a WR.  But the more I learned about them, the more I wanted to trade-up into the Top 10.

[GASabresIUFan]

I don't see Coleman getting traded in the off-season.  I do see the Bills drafting 2 WRs.  

 

Samuel is gone after this season.  Moore is as well.  Coleman only costs 2.75 to keep (5.9 to cut).  

 

The WR room for next season looks like Shakir, Palmer, Coleman and probably Shavers.  That leaves 2 openings for rookie draft picks and or maybe even Gabe Davis if he continues to play like he did against the Bucs.

[BADOLBILZ]

4 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

Maybe. I just don't think the upside is worth it, especially given the off field behaviour.

 

There actually isn't any off field behavior problem that I am aware of.  I haven't heard anything of the sort about Keon and probably would have.  James Cook?  Yeah, that guy was/is an off field concern.  But that goes to show how much that matters if you keep expectations modest and let a player ramp up to his level.

 

The problem as I see it is that they promoted Coleman like they'd just drafted Malik Nabers when he was a raw day 2 pick that was likely going to need a significant runway.   Now they  realize he needs to be 100% all-in right-here-right-now to even get close to the unrealistic timeline that they created with the hype.  And as a 22 year old that they handed millions to, he likely just doesn't know what he doesn't know and aint there yet.

 

Remember, this is the same organization that took in Jordan Phillips and gladly dealt with his lack of maturity and unwillingness to do the dirty work necessary to be a versatile DT and damn near glorifies the half effort they have been able to get out of him when Miami cut him for being that guy.      

[Low Positive]

5 minutes ago, mjt328 said:

 

If I recall, scouts saw that receiver draft class (outside of Harrison, Nabers and Odunze) as mostly #2 guys with high upside.  Most of the other prospects were really strong in some areas, but also had glaring weaknesses that would probably keep them from becoming a WR1 in the NFL.

 

For instance, guys like Thomas and Worthy had elite speed, but big questions on other parts of their game.  McConkey and Pearsall were seen mostly as slot-only receivers.  Coleman and Mitchell had size, but lacked in route-running, etc.

 

I was pretty excited going into that draft with us really needing a WR.  But the more I learned about them, the more I wanted to trade-up into the Top 10.

It's nearly impossible to trade from the bottom of the first round into the top ten.  The Bills' entire 2024 draft was worth 370 points on the draft value chart. The pick that Chicago used to take Odunze was worth 387 points. ARI's pick, used to take MHJ, was worth 491 points. 

[GunnerBill]

5 minutes ago, BADOLBILZ said:

 

There actually isn't any off field behavior problem that I am aware of.  I haven't heard anything of the sort about Keon and probably would have.  James Cook?  Yeah, that guy was/is an off field concern.  But that goes to show how much that matters if you keep expectations modest and let a player ramp up to his level.

 

The problem as I see it is that they promoted Coleman like they'd just drafted Malik Nabers when he was a raw day 2 pick that was likely going to need a significant runway.   Now they  realize he needs to be 100% all-in right-here-right-now to even get close to the unrealistic timeline that they created with the hype.  And as a 22 year old that they handed millions to, he likely just doesn't know what he doesn't know and aint there yet.

 

Remember, this is the same organization that took in Jordan Phillips and gladly dealt with his lack of maturity and unwillingness to do the dirty work necessary to be a versatile DT and damn near glorifies the half effort they have been able to get out of him when Miami cut him for being that guy.      

 

Well he has been late multiple times going back to his rookie year, he was late to meetings in his rookie camp. That is not a good sign. It is unacceptable.

[Kirby Jackson]

37 minutes ago, billsfan89 said:

 

I would rather ride out Torrence for the last year of his rookie deal given that the Bills are likely to have some turnover along the interior O-line next season with McGovern and Edwards both being free agents and the high possibility that at least one if not both are gone. I would rather keep Torrence there so at least one of the three interior O-line players are still there. 

 

I think scouring the trade market for some high risk value like BTJ or MHJ is going to be what it takes since the Bills can't count on finding WR's where they will be drafting (hard for any team to do so) so trying to find a reclamation project who might pop with a better system/QB play is the best way to go. 

I would try to bring those 2 back. I’m assuming that’ll cost about the same as Torrence. I’m thinking Anderson fills one spot next year.

 

Agree on the WR. I don’t think they can focus on the draft for that guy. They CAN gamble on George Pickens I suppose. He looked incredible last night. Can you depend on him? Who knows but the talent is there. 

28 minutes ago, Low Positive said:

Since the Bills are not playing on Sunday, watch the Bengals vs. Pats game. Ja'Marr Chase is suspended, so you get to see what Tee HIggins looks like as a #1 without the best WR in the game drawing double coverage across from him. Flacco, depending on his shoulder, is more than capable of getting him the ball. I he doesn't show out in a must-win game, it will be very telling. 

Great call. He will be against Christian Gonzalez too. 

43 minutes ago, The Jokeman said:

Keon's also being thrown long routes toward the sideline which a lot harder to complete than most routes it may play a part. tThat catch% you quote Ladds actually gotten worse from last year from 73% to 64% compared to Keon that improved from to 50% to 65%  but hmmmm guess Keon sucks.

He does suck. Lol, everything posted is some manufactured way to pump him up. Lol, earlier in the thread we talked about ignoring his last 17 games but looking at his first 5. 🤣🤣 The Bills score more points when he’s out of the lineup. 
 

I haven’t compared the average depth of target for Ladd vs. Keon. I’d like to see it if you have it. If you compare Keon to other Bills receivers, I’d imagine that 41% is by far the worst. He plays with the MVP of the league and is one of the least efficient receivers in the league. 

[BADOLBILZ]

16 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

Well he has been late multiple times going back to his rookie year, he was late to meetings in his rookie camp. That is not a good sign. It is unacceptable.

 

It was acceptable with Diggs to the point where they idiotically extended him.  I sometimes think Beane and McD are just too square to understand human nature.  There aren't that many types of personalities.   As an employer and team builder you gotta' learn how to get the most out of what is available to you.  They drafted Coleman into a rudderless WR room the way they drafted Watkins into one.  Getting serious about disciplining him after the fact was a tactical error.   They should have been able to glean from last season that Coleman was immature and that they had to have a real WR1 in place this year............instead, they made Coleman WR1 and then benched him after he'd played the most snaps of anyone all season. 😂 

[GunnerBill]

4 minutes ago, BADOLBILZ said:

 

It was acceptable with Diggs to the point where they idiotically extended him.  I sometimes think Beane and McD are just too square to understand human nature.  There aren't that many types of personalities.   As an employer and team builder you gotta' learn how to get the most out of what is available to you.  They drafted Coleman into a rudderless WR room the way they drafted Watkins into one.  Getting serious about disciplining him after the fact was a tactical error.   They should have been able to glean from last season that Coleman was immature and that they had to have a real WR1 in place this year............instead, they made Coleman WR1 and then benched him after he'd played the most snaps of anyone all season. 😂 

 

They have mismanged it, certianly. But I am not sure Keon was ever capable of being the answer personally.

[BADOLBILZ]

4 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

They have mismanged it, certianly. But I am not sure Keon was ever capable of being the answer personally.

 

I'm not certain he is either.   I wasn't certain of Spencer Brown or Cole Bishop either.....but I knew when they hadn't had enough experience to know.   After drafting Coleman and then being strangely publicly critical of him after his rookie season they doubled down on him.  Shame on them for not doing A LOT more they've really jeopardized their easiest path to a SB since they've been here.

[The Jokeman]

29 minutes ago, Kirby Jackson said:

I would try to bring those 2 back. I’m assuming that’ll cost about the same as Torrence. I’m thinking Anderson fills one spot next year.

 

Agree on the WR. I don’t think they can focus on the draft for that guy. They CAN gamble on George Pickens I suppose. He looked incredible last night. Can you depend on him? Who knows but the talent is there. 

Great call. He will be against Christian Gonzalez too. 

He does suck. Lol, everything posted is some manufactured way to pump him up. Lol, earlier in the thread we talked about ignoring his last 17 games but looking at his first 5. 🤣🤣 The Bills score more points when he’s out of the lineup. 
 

I haven’t compared the average depth of target for Ladd vs. Keon. I’d like to see it if you have it. If you compare Keon to other Bills receivers, I’d imagine that 41% is by far the worst. He plays with the MVP of the league and is one of the least efficient receivers in the league. 

I'm pumping him up because people are acting like Coleman is Kevin White, Reggie Williams, Laquon Treadwell or Charles Rogers level bust which to me he isn't. 

[hondo in seattle]

1 hour ago, BADOLBILZ said:

 

It was acceptable with Diggs to the point where they idiotically extended him.  I sometimes think Beane and McD are just too square to understand human nature.  There aren't that many types of personalities.   As an employer and team builder you gotta' learn how to get the most out of what is available to you.  They drafted Coleman into a rudderless WR room the way they drafted Watkins into one.  Getting serious about disciplining him after the fact was a tactical error.   They should have been able to glean from last season that Coleman was immature and that they had to have a real WR1 in place this year............instead, they made Coleman WR1 and then benched him after he'd played the most snaps of anyone all season. 😂 

 

This is an interesting narrative but I don't think it's quite accurate.  

 

The WR room wasn't "rudderless."  It simply lacked a star receiver. 

 

"Getting serious about disciplining him after the fact was a tactical error."  I'm not sure what you mean there.  If you're using the word discipline to mean punishment, it's normal to punish someone after they screw up, not before.  In any case, we don't know everything McD's done to correct Keon's issues.  We don't what talks they've had.  We do know that the discipline has increased from something mild to making Keon a healthy scratch.  That's called progressive discipline and it's a normal behavior modification tool.  When the little hammer doesn't work, pull out a bigger hammer.

 

When did the Bills coronate Coleman as WR1?  They drafted him.  They played him.  I never heard anyone say he was the top dog, the new star, Diggs' replacement.  It seemed more like they considered him a role player - a big-bodied guy who could come down with contested balls.  Clearly, Beane drafted Coleman too high but I don't think the coaching staff overstated his value or treated him like a 1.

 

I think the coaching staff probably bought into the idea of building a capable passing attack using the diverse skill sets of our various WRs and TEs ("everybody eats") without a true WR1.  And they're not entirely wrong.  We're currently 2nd in ypg and 4th in ppg.  Our offense is strong without an alpha receiver.  In other words, McD is doing what you said he isn't doing - getting the most out of the people available to him.  

 

I don't think Beane failed to get a WR1 this offseason because he (or anyone) thought Keon was the answer.  I think he screwed up managing the cap and didn't have the resources to get someone better than Josh Palmer or Elijah Moore.  
 

 

 

[BADOLBILZ]

1 minute ago, hondo in seattle said:

 

This is an interesting narrative but I don't think it's quite accurate.  

 

The WR room wasn't "rudderless."  It simply lacked a star receiver. 

 

"Getting serious about disciplining him after the fact was a tactical error."  I'm not sure what you mean there.  If you're using the word discipline to mean punishment, it's normal to punish someone after they screw up, not before.  In any case, we don't know everything McD's done to correct Keon's issues.  We don't what talks they've had.  We do know that the discipline has increased from something mild to making Keon a healthy scratch.  That's called progressive discipline and it's a normal behavior modification tool.  When the little hammer doesn't work, pull out a bigger hammer.

 

When did the Bills coronate Coleman as WR1?  They drafted him.  They played him.  I never heard anyone say he was the top dog, the new star, Diggs' replacement.  It seemed more like they considered him a role player - a big-bodied guy who could come down with contested balls.  Clearly, Beane drafted Coleman too high but I don't think the coaching staff overstated his value or treated him like a 1.

 

I think the coaching staff probably bought into the idea of building a capable passing attack using the diverse skill sets of our various WRs and TEs ("everybody eats") without a true WR1.  And they're not entirely wrong.  We're currently 2nd in ypg and 4th in ppg.  Our offense is strong without an alpha receiver.  In other words, McD is doing what you said he isn't doing - getting the most out of the people available to him.  

 

I don't think Beane failed to get a WR1 this offseason because he (or anyone) thought Keon was the answer.  I think he screwed up managing the cap and didn't have the resources to get someone better than Josh Palmer or Elijah Moore.  
 

 

 

 

 

The WR room was rudderless because there was no alpha in place.  No stud to set the tone.  Sorta like former All Pro and alpha-persona Jordan Poyer is now being credited with as Cole Bishop is emerging.  I mean.......every WR room has 4 or 5 other guys in it.  

 

A hyped rookie who is the #2 focus of marketing by the team behind the QB being told he is going to become WR1 probably isn't going to be taking his lead from Shoeless Mack Hollins and short-arms-slot-only Shakir.   There wasn't even a captain in the room anymore with wrong-way Gabe gone.   The lack of leadership was acknowledged as a concern of the Bills....I mean, where did you think that applied?  And Allen isn't the Aaron Rodgers type either.  Not a guy who is going to ride a teammate to make him better like Rodgers did with the enigmatic young version of Davante Adams.  

 

The tactical error was basically handing a player you were highly critical of after the season the WR1 job in 2025 and then playing him the most snaps all season as he continues to struggle and only then benching him outright for being late for at least his 3rd practice with the team.   That's the definition of a day late and dollar short and the timing of it gives the perception to the public that he's the reason for the teams wildly inconsistent passing game(even if that weren't the case).