Coaches are heavily implying that Coleman isn’t trying on the field

[The Frankish Reich]

3 minutes ago, jaybeezee said:

I also remember Brane neglecting the WR position when we drafted Cody Ford over DK Metcalfe as well. How'd that work for us.

 

Imagine DK and Stef on our team during those years! I know its all retrospect,  but just one of too many flubbs by Beane for my taste!

Yeah, but then we would've been without Cody Ford dominating on the O line!

[DrDawkinstein]

14 minutes ago, jaybeezee said:

I also remember Brane neglecting the WR position when we drafted Cody Ford over DK Metcalfe as well. How'd that work for us.

 

Imagine DK and Stef on our team during those years! I know its all retrospect,  but just one of too many flubbs by Beane for my taste!

 

For as great as they did in the 2018 draft, the botched the 2019 draft as badly.

 

1. Ed Oliver over Justin Jeffrey Simmons, Dexter Lawrence, or even Brian Burns

2. Cody Ford over Metcalf or AJ Brown

3. Singletary over Terry McLaurin

 

What could have been...

Edited 2 hours ago by DrDawkinstein

[Big Turk]

Then bench him and start working with different receiver packages. Reminds me of when we tried to force Kelvin Benjamin, Andre Holmes, etc and the other big body receivers that could never get open and as soon as we started putting Isaiah McKenzie, Robert Foster, etc on the field they started getting open. 

 

Why Beane keeps repeating the same mistakes over and over again with trying to force big body receivers that simply aren't good enough is maddening.

[jaybeezee]

1 minute ago, DrDawkinstein said:

 

For as great as they did in the 2018 draft, the botched the 2019 draft as badly.

 

1. Ed Oliver over Justin Simmons, Dexter Lawrence, or even Brian Burns

2. Cody Ford over Metcalf or AJ Brown

3. Singletary over Terry McLaurin

 

What could have been...

Man that stings so much more! I appreciate McD and Beane, but we have to move on from them. They have proven that at best that draft second and third tier rate players that over achieve. There hasn't been one player that they drafted that is no longer on this team that is remotely any good,  outside of Edmunds, who is decent, but no star player.

[Big Turk]

2 minutes ago, jaybeezee said:

Man that stings so much more! I appreciate McD and Beane, but we have to move on from them. They have proven that at best that draft second and third tier rate players that over achieve. There hasn't been one player that they drafted that is no longer on this team that is remotely any good,  outside of Edmunds, who is decent, but no star player.

 

You could say that about a lot of teams.

[GunnerBill]

7 minutes ago, DrDawkinstein said:

 

For as great as they did in the 2018 draft, the botched the 2019 draft as badly.

 

1. Ed Oliver over Justin Simmons, Dexter Lawrence, or even Brian Burns

2. Cody Ford over Metcalf or AJ Brown

3. Singletary over Terry McLaurin

 

What could have been...

 

Think you mean Jeffrey Simmons. He fell because of red flags both health and off field. If he'd been clean he was a top 10 player. Burns was the guy I wanted if it wasn't Ed, I think that would have been a good pick. That said Ed has still been a really good player for the Bills. 

 

[DrDawkinstein]

Just now, Big Turk said:

 

You could say that about a lot of teams.

 

Sure. A lot of teams that arent perennial Super Bowl contenders. But we're supposed to be in the tier with the KCs and Phillys who always seem to find the star "pure football" players. They just have a better eye for it than we do.

[Billz4ever]

2 minutes ago, Big Turk said:

Then bench him and start working with different receiver packages. Reminds me of when we tried to force Kelvin Benjamin, Andre Holmes, etc and the other big body receivers that could never get open and as soon as we started putting Isaiah McKenzie, Robert Foster, etc on the field they started getting open. 

 

Why Beane keeps repeating the same mistakes over and over again with trying to force big body receivers that simply aren't good enough is maddening.

 

I'd like to think it's not an ego thing, but it feels like Beane is sometimes trying to prove conventional wisdom wrong. Coleman is exactly what basically all major scouting reports said he was, yet Beane decided he knew better and that he was what this team needed.  It's either than or this team's scouting and talent evaluation leave a lot to be desired.

[Big Turk]

4 minutes ago, Billz4ever said:

 

I'd like to think it's not an ego thing, but it feels like Beane is sometimes trying to prove conventional wisdom wrong. Coleman is exactly what basically all major scouting reports said he was, yet Beane decided he knew better and that he was what this team needed.  It's either than or this team's scouting and talent evaluation leave a lot to be desired.

 

I mean there are ways to more effectively utilize him, but if we aren't going to do it, we need to put someone else on the field that can play that role better.

5 minutes ago, DrDawkinstein said:

 

Sure. A lot of teams that arent perennial Super Bowl contenders. But we're supposed to be in the tier with the KCs and Phillys who always seem to find the star "pure football" players. They just have a better eye for it than we do.

 

I don't disagree. Beane tends to pick more high floor, lower ceiling players than those teams who aim for the blue chip, boom or bust type players more. Although I think Kincaid, Hairston, Bishop and Walker have the potential to be those players in time and Cook has turned into one.

Edited 2 hours ago by Big Turk

[Low Positive]

4 minutes ago, The Frankish Reich said:

"Projectability" vs. actual on-field results. I think that explains Coleman vs. Franklin.

You guys are all talking like Troy Franklin has been lighting up the league. He was considered a giant bust last year, when he only had 263 yards in 16 games. His success rate on targets was 35.8%. He's been better this year, but he has yet to have a 100-yard receiving game. He's getting a lot of targets the past few weeks as teams have doubled Sutton, but he still had 4 catches for 27 yards in Houston two weeks ago. I know there have been some highlights that you have seen, but overall, he's a JAG. 

 

In fact, Keon Coleman has more yards per target and a better catch percentage. This year! https://www.sports-reference.com/stathead/tiny/AqwZp

 

[GoBills808]

3 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

Think you mean Jeffrey Simmons. He fell because of red flags both health and off field. If he'd been clean he was a top 10 player. Burns was the guy I wanted if it wasn't Ed, I think that would have been a good pick. That said Ed has still been a really good player for the Bills. 

 

ed oliver, in a vacuum, is decent

 

the context is that we've only gotten 30 career sacks out of an undersized penetrating 3T that we spent a top10 pick for. he's been horrific value for us

[Billz4ever]

7 minutes ago, Big Turk said:

 

I mean there are ways to more effectively utilize him, but if we aren't going to do it, we need to put someone else on the field that can play that role better.

 

 

 

I continue to believe Coleman is really just a big slot receiver but they keep trying to force that square peg into the round hole and we see the results. I get that we're not lacking in slot guys, but putting the slowest one in the room on the outside who always has a DB glued to his hip and expecting miracles isn't going to cut it.

Edited 2 hours ago by Billz4ever

[Big Turk]

5 minutes ago, Billz4ever said:

 

I continue to believe Coleman is really just a big slot receiver but they keep trying to force that square peg into the round hole and we see the results. I get that we're not lacking in slot guys, but putting the slowest one in the room on the outside who always has a DB glued to his hip and expecting miracles isn't going to cut it.

 

Agree, we have too many of the same player and there are only so many spots available for them at the same time. Kincaid, Shakir, Coleman, Samuel, Moore all fill the same role more or less. Palmer can be an outside guy but even he got a lot of production in the slot with the Chargers.

Edited 2 hours ago by Big Turk

[extrahammer]

Keon is a system player. He has to be in a system that takes jump ball shots in the red zone and even in that system he's not a #1. If he can't get separation then he needs to compensate more with his hands, and not catching over 60% of balls thrown his way on Sunday is a terrible signal. So why are we still starting him? Can a reporter ask that question in a press conference? 

[mannc]

8 minutes ago, GoBills808 said:

ed oliver, in a vacuum, is decent

 

the context is that we've only gotten 30 career sacks out of an undersized penetrating 3T that we spent a top10 pick for. he's been horrific value for us

Since we’re going back to the future here, in 2018, after you brilliantly trade up for Josh Allen, why not use your other first round pick on a WR for him to throw to (DJ Moore, maybe) instead of trading up for a raw off-ball linebacker?  The WR room at that time was even worse than it is now…

[Big Turk]

4 minutes ago, extrahammer said:

Keon is a system player. He has to be in a system that takes jump ball shots in the red zone and even in that system he's not a #1. If he can't get separation then he needs to compensate more with his hands, and not catching over 60% of balls thrown his way on Sunday is a terrible signal. So why are we still starting him? Can a reporter ask that question in a press conference? 

 

But he is terrible at jump balls right now, which was a strength of his in college. That's the biggest issue. Essentially what he did at the college level very well has not translated almost AT ALL to the NFL level.  YAC actually has probably been his best asset and we have seen that in multiple situations.

Edited 1 hour ago by Big Turk

[GoBills808]

2 minutes ago, mannc said:

Since we’re going back to the future here, in 2018, after you brilliantly trade up for Josh Allen, why not use your other first round pick on a WR for him to throw to (DJ Moore, maybe) instead of trading up for a raw off-ball linebacker?  The WR room at that time was even worse than it is now…

right 😂😂what a concept

[Big Turk]

5 minutes ago, mannc said:

Since we’re going back to the future here, in 2018, after you brilliantly trade up for Josh Allen, why not use your other first round pick on a WR for him to throw to (DJ Moore, maybe) instead of trading up for a raw off-ball linebacker?  The WR room at that time was even worse than it is now…

 

The dude that posted an all "0" stat line in one of the most WR friendly offenses in the NFL this past week?  I mean right now he has 30 catches for 403 yards, which is basically Coleman level production. Coleman's week 1 stat line of 8 for 112 is the best for either of them this year.

Edited 1 hour ago by Big Turk

[extrahammer]

3 minutes ago, Big Turk said:

 

But he is terrible at jump balls right now, which was a strength of his in college. That's the biggest issue.

Agree 100%, which is why I said even in that type of system he's still not a #1. To me the biggest issue is if we know this, why aren't we trying Moore, Samuel, or Palmer? It can't just be because of injuries. 

Edited 1 hour ago by extrahammer

[Billz4ever]

3 minutes ago, extrahammer said:

Keon is a system player. He has to be in a system that takes jump ball shots in the red zone and even in that system he's not a #1. If he can't get separation then he needs to compensate more with his hands, and not catching over 60% of balls thrown his way on Sunday is a terrible signal. So why are we still starting him? Can a reporter ask that question in a press conference? 

 

They kinda already indirectly have without using those exact words. First asking questions about his production, now questioning the effort is basically asking that question and McD apparently continues to believe he's deserving of all the targets he gets. I and obviously many others at this point would disagree.