Were We Running Into a Stacked Box?

[KOKBILLS]

I'm almost certain I heard somewhere we ran into stacked boxed more than any other team in 2024... And part of the problem may be that we also had the most success vs stacked boxes... So now they are not intimidated by them...

[NewEra]

On 11/10/2025 at 9:17 AM, MPL said:

Yes. Dolphins sold out to stop the run. Dared WRs to win one-on-one matchups. WRs could not win one-on-one matchups. Josh didn't pull trigger on some short quick throws trying to look for bigger plays. Also, not many bigger plays open. 

I haven’t watched the all 22 myself, but Joe Marino credited 4 of the incompletions vs Miami to guys not getting open.  The rest were drops, Josh turning down the open looks and OL breakdowns.  I think there were 3-4 drops and 3-4 instances of Josh turning down open receivers.  
 

I’m definitely on the Keon should sit train, but he didt beat his man deep on 2-3 occasions and either wasn’t targeted or Josh threw a bad ball.  Obviously other instances in which Josh threw catchable passes and Keon didn’t do what we drafted him to do.  Go up and use his size/body control to make a freekin play.  
 

palmer better be ready this game and we better target him.  Might be tough to do next Thursday vs the Texans though.  I’d have my money on Stingley shadowing him

[EmotionallyUnstable]

9 minutes ago, KOKBILLS said:

I'm almost certain I heard somewhere we ran into stacked boxed more than any other team in 2024... And part of the problem may be that we also had the most success vs stacked boxes... So now they are not intimidated by them...

This is something they encourage IMO. 
 

The condensed formations create so many holes and 1v1 blocking match ups. When they’re successful with them, it’s hat on a hat and cook, finds the seam. Bringing all those guys into the box actually opens up the second level of the defense when it’s executed well. 
 

The ultimate goal is to get Cook 1v1 in space vs a corner or a safety, and by bringing all the people to the party, it creates more running lanes and more open space on the boundary for cook to use his speed. 
 

Take Tyrell shavers for example. When he is in the slot, most corners or ILBs would not be playing him head up, but instead shaded inside and that is a tough ask for a WR to dig out a player who is already positioned closer to the football and has a good angle at the ball carrier. 
 

Instead they just beat that defender to the spot by  presnap alignment, giving the WR a better chance at a successful block while bringing more people into the box and less on the edges. 
 

This isn’t true for every run play, obviously, but those condensed formations are something they do BECAUSE it stacks the box in a way they find advantageous. 

Edited 3 hours ago by EmotionallyUnstable

[mbowman14]

By far my biggest complaint with Brady is his refusal this year to open up the game play-action heavy. This naturally softens the run defense. His plan in Seattle last season is the blueprint, but we refuse to try it this season. Hell the first play of the game was shotgun and all spread, screaming pass. Why not play-action instead of giving your intent away with formation. The Dolphins were ripe to roll over and our poor 1st drive and their subsequent 95-yard drive killed that idea. 

[dock581]

Why don’t we ever pass to Cook 10-15 yards down field. I would bet he could get some separation!

[Jerome007]

On 11/10/2025 at 11:30 AM, Roundybout said:

They know we can’t beat CBs one on one, so theres no need for an extra defensive back.

Well, that's not true if the schemes help. And imagine, at times, not all the time, WRs running short while a TE or RB runs deep when Josh can see it's man to man coverage. Picth runs to the outside. And yes, a few misdirections and play action!
 

31 minutes ago, mbowman14 said:

By far my biggest complaint with Brady is his refusal this year to open up the game play-action heavy. This naturally softens the run defense. His plan in Seattle last season is the blueprint, but we refuse to try it this season. Hell the first play of the game was shotgun and all spread, screaming pass. Why not play-action instead of giving your intent away with formation. The Dolphins were ripe to roll over and our poor 1st drive and their subsequent 95-yard drive killed that idea. 

Oh I agree. Yet, to be fair, on 8 opening drives before that, the Bills had scored 6 TDs, 1 FG, and no punt as the other one ended in a fumble. Perfection is not of this world. And the Bills should still have dominated if the first drive was stopped. It's a headscratcher of a game.

 

Edited 3 hours ago by Jerome007
spelling

[BigAl2526]

Cook has an amazing ability to "get skinny on inside runs to slip through small gaps, but when that wasn't working so well versus the Dolphins Brady seemed to have no effective fall back options.  Screens to Shakir behind the LOS didn't work either. A healthy Palmer may help a bit and there's a chance Hardman could too.   At the moment there's not much else the Bills can hope for.

[DapperCam]

2 hours ago, NewEra said:

I haven’t watched the all 22 myself, but Joe Marino credited 4 of the incompletions vs Miami to guys not getting open.  The rest were drops, Josh turning down the open looks and OL breakdowns.  I think there were 3-4 drops and 3-4 instances of Josh turning down open receivers.  
 

I’m definitely on the Keon should sit train, but he didt beat his man deep on 2-3 occasions and either wasn’t targeted or Josh threw a bad ball.  Obviously other instances in which Josh threw catchable passes and Keon didn’t do what we drafted him to do.  Go up and use his size/body control to make a freekin play.  
 

palmer better be ready this game and we better target him.  Might be tough to do next Thursday vs the Texans though.  I’d have my money on Stingley shadowing him

I never know what to think of an analyst looking at the All-22 and crediting incompletions to turning down an open receiver. It requires knowledge of the progression, whether the QB is reading low-to-high or high-to-low, whether that player is even expecting the ball (Brady famously has "clear out routes" where the ball is never intended to go to certain players), whether the "missed opportunity" is early in the progression when the QB is waiting for a bigger gain in a later progression, etc.

There are just so many factors, seems like only Allen and Brady would really know.

Even something like the redzone INT targeting Knox. Allen threw inside and Knox turned outside. Was it just an inaccurate pass, or did Allen or Knox read the coverage wrong?

[Buffalo716]

2 hours ago, KOKBILLS said:

I'm almost certain I heard somewhere we ran into stacked boxed more than any other team in 2024... And part of the problem may be that we also had the most success vs stacked boxes... So now they are not intimidated by them...

Realistically a stacked box hampers weak running games and weaker running backs 

 

I've never met a big time running back who did not salivate at the thought of an eight-man box... Adrian Peterson Derrick Henry Barry Sanders Marshall faulk... Chris Johnson... All killed eight man boxes 

 

It hampers indecisive runners.. decisive runners like cook typically hit a hole with a full head of steam... Stack box means if you reach the second level you need to make one guy Miss and you're off to the races 

 

Most of the 50 60 70-yard rushing touchdowns happen on stacked boxes.. two high safety with a light box will allow for 5 6 7 yards at a whack.. but makes it tougher too break that big one 

 

Cook has elite vision and great speed.. a stack box means he's one hard hit hole away from breaking a big one 

[Sierra Foothills]

3 hours ago, transplantbillsfan said:

I haven't listened to Joe Marino's All-22, but Sal Capacio on his podcast right after the game pointed out that reporters and beat writers after the game are always given a game book, which includes personell and the Dolphins played with 3 LBs on the field for the vast majority of the game.

 

So yes.

 

Spencer Brown said “They loaded the box well... they came out in base right on the first drive and I personally wasn’t expecting that.”

 

If you read between the lines it's not too hard to figure out what he might really be saying.

 

And considering the Bills didn't score until the 4th quarter, I'd say Brady was slow to adjust to the Dolphins strategy.

 

[Buffalo716]

7 minutes ago, Sierra Foothills said:

 

Spencer Brown said “They loaded the box well... they came out in base right on the first drive and I personally wasn’t expecting that.”

 

If you read between the lines it's not too hard to figure out what he might really be saying.

 

And considering the Bills didn't score until the 4th quarter, I'd say Brady was slow to adjust to the Dolphins strategy.

 

 

An elite running game doesn't get worried about a stacked box 

 

It gets drawn up, you block it correctly, execute and it's successful 

 

James Cook has had lots of success on eight man boxes in his career.. especially the last two seasons 

 

Most of your long touchdowns happen on a stack box.. because you only need to make one person Miss if you get to the second level

 

That shows they were not executing their blocking assignments not anything the dolphins did.. because as I said most top pro bowl running backs salivate at the thought of a stacked box when you're in the groove

 

Because they trust their vision and running instincts.. you hit the hole hard you just need one guy to beat..  everybody from Adrian Peterson to Chris Johnson thrived in that spot

 

I'm pretty sure his long 60-yard rushing touchdown earlier was on an eight-man box also

 

It seems the bills had a problem blocking it this week

Edited 57 minutes ago by Buffalo716

[Playoffs?]

On 11/10/2025 at 12:00 PM, dorquemada said:

Every team is going to put 9 on the  line against us.  It's easy money, and Brady/McD have no answer, especially with our only downfield (defined as 5-15 yards) threat is out again for who knows how long

This is really depressing. And this is Beane’s fault. 

[Sierra Foothills]

5 minutes ago, Buffalo716 said:

 

An elite running game doesn't get worried about a stacked box 

 

It gets drawn up, you block it correctly, execute and it's successful 

 

James Cook has had lots of success on eight man boxes in his career.. especially the last two seasons 

 

Most of your long touchdowns happen on a stack box.. because you only need to make one person Miss if you get to the second level

 

That shows they were not executing their blocking assignments not anything the dolphins did.. because as I said most top pro bowl running backs salivate at the thought of a stacked box when you're in the groove

 

Because they trust their vision and running instincts.. you hit the hole hard you just need one guy to beat..  everybody from Adrian Peterson to Chris Johnson thrived in that spot

 

I'm pretty sure his long 60-yard rushing touchdown earlier was on an eight-man box also

 

It seems the bills had a problem blocking it this week

 

Fair enough.

 

What then do you make of Spencer Brown's comments that "he" wasn't expecting a base defense?

 

[Buffalo716]

34 minutes ago, Sierra Foothills said:

 

Fair enough.

 

What then do you make of Spencer Brown's comments that "he" wasn't expecting a base defense?

 

 

Because most teams come out  seven or six players in the box for bills still

 

Dolphins might have flipped it up and the players just didn't execute 

 

They were running three defensive tackles...Don't see a lot 

 

So it seems more like an execution thing.. dolphins gave them a wrinkle that they didn't properly game plan for , struggled adjusting in game 

 

Bills have only faced a stacked box on less than like 5% of carries... So the sample size isn't big... The dolphins looks probably disrupted their blocking assignments not to mention cook was slightly dinged up in the Chiefs game 

 

History says you can't keep eight in the box against Josh Allen even with these wide receivers.. and all the dolphins looks are on tape.. so they'll know how to block a 3DT 8 man look better now

 

But history also says a running back like cook will break a big one with eight in the box sooner than later which just didn't happen against dolphins 

 

His yards per carry will go down.. but his ability to break the long one goes up in that situation.. he's a solid five six yards A carry against a standard or lightbox but it's harder to break off that 50 yarder

 

It's always a chess match... There is a counter to the dolphins strategy

 

James Cook is facing an average heavier box per touch than Jonathan Taylor according to advanced metrics this season... 8 man box is something the bills running game can improve blocking 

 

But they have the pieces to hit a homerun if blocked correctly 

 

 

Edited 17 minutes ago by Buffalo716