Joe B (The Athletic) on passing game problems (with data)

[The Frankish Reich]

32 minutes ago, BillsVet said:

Coleman offers almost nothing to this offense

Run blocking!

[waterglass]

6 hours ago, dave mcbride said:

https://www.nytimes.com/athletic/6752393/2025/10/26/bills-panthers-win-wide-receiver-ed-oliver-injury/

 

 

I saw Keon Coleman return one punt in the Carolina game. Because if so why.To me I always look at anything with suspicion. So your apparent #1 Receiver is a 6' 4"guy on a punt return to me reeks of a potential risk to an injury. Hmm. I already validated what I saw as he returned it for six yards. To me it seems they [Coaches] want him out. Brandon Beane messed up on this guy as the Chiefs guy drafted is all everything for Mahomes. Gabe Davis has better ability to get open than Coleman but his status on recovery is unknown.  I didnt realize that Coleman was benched earlier in October in the Patriots game. So here we have an MVP quarterback who won the 13 seconds game but we all know what happened. Now he cant complete a pass. Thats not all on him. Possibly 5% is on him. I am reading the tea leaves that a mini war is ongoing between Beane and the Coach. I am not crazy about coach but his record is what it is and he does win. I say bye bye Brandon and stay off the WGR550 talk shows as you EXPOSED your failings to the National Media. Brandons  other #1 BUST who we traded to Dallas also is a BUST with Dallas.  Brandon isnt hittng on his #1 draft picks. Our scouts? Allen was from 2018. Thats history. 

 

As a PS I also feel that our pass routes are bizarre based on what I saw yesterday. Thats on coaching. Seems like they are still using the pass routes from Tyrod Taylor days when two world class speedsters could NOT get separation and open either until they LEFT Buffalo. 

[Buffalo716]

Also Josh has the highest yards per attempt in his career so even though the offense is getting condensed... And it looks out of sync Josh is efficient at getting the ball out

 

All this means is that there's only 1 way to go and that's up .. the offense with Josh with continue to grow and if it stays this efficient and opens up a bit we won't be stopped in January with cook also

 

He still has the highest yards per attempt in his career and a solid yards per completion

 

Edited 2 hours ago by Buffalo716

[thenorthremembers]

4 minutes ago, RoyBatty is alive said:

10 minutes to go and no trade.

 

I guess that means you wont be watching because the Bills "will not beat the Chiefs".

 

There perpetual drama queens here.

 

I'll be at the game.  Despite my somewhat hyperbolic post, I think its right in line with what almost everyone is seeing and thinking.   I dont expect them to beat the Chiefs.   I hope they do, but hope isnt a plan. 

[Mat68]

Imo it’s a lack of volume.  Allen threw the ball 19 times.  Early he was out of rhythm.  With Cooks explosion the passing game was no longer needed.   Once it started to click the game was over.     

[mjt328]

43 minutes ago, Pete said:

This is my theory.  And thats why Josh seems to be miserable.  Grandma calls Josh to remind him to smile?  Thats the polar opposite of Golden Retriever Josh that we love and know.  I believe Josh is extremely frustrated with Joes dink and dunk, game manager offence.  I think hes frustrated when no WR is open for 11 seconds.  I think  he beaten up from the ZPats and Falcons.  And I think Josh knows the answers, but he is a good soldier, and does what hes told, even though hes often in a no win situation 

 

I understand Josh Allen's mindset, because it's very close to my own.

 

At this point, who cares about the MVP award, AFC East titles and Wild Card Round victories?  He's experienced this team accomplish all of that, and then not be good enough when it actually matters. 

 

Over time, continually falling short wears on you.  I don't really get excited for regular season success.  And I get way more frustrated when the team plays like trash than I did 2-4 years ago.  I literally have no patience with this team anymore, because I've seen the same song and dance.  We keep hearing about the process and getting better... only to see a rinse/repeat every single season.  The optimistic fans keep pointing out how we have stretches like this midseason and then turn it up down the stretch.  But WHEN will this team stop squandering their chance at the #1 seed/bye with ridiculous garbage losses to inferior opponents?  In truth, the Bills aren't getting better, because every season we restart and go through the same thing.

 

Every year, Allen is going out there and sacrificing his body - carrying a mediocre offense on his shoulders.  He finally gets the running game he always needed, and it's literally the same time our top WR exits town and doesn't get replaced.  At some point, the guy is just going to get mentally worn out.

[first_and_ten]

6 hours ago, dave mcbride said:

https://www.nytimes.com/athletic/6752393/2025/10/26/bills-panthers-win-wide-receiver-ed-oliver-injury/
 

If you want a microcosm of the Bills’ passing experience enveloped in one play, look no further than their third-and-6 play at the beginning of the second quarter in Panthers territory. Allen, with Keon Coleman, Khalil Shakir, Elijah Moore, Dalton Kincaid and Ty Johnson on the field, took the shotgun snap and hung in the pocket, going through his progressions for 4.35 seconds — well past how long an offensive line generally gives its quarterback to throw. No one was open. Then, wanting to give his receivers another chance to get open, Allen spun out of the pocket and rolled to his left, holding the ball for an additional 6.51 seconds — at one point running through someone grabbing and ripping part of his uniform — before ultimately taking a 16-yard sack. That’s right, almost 11 seconds, and absolutely no one was open down the field, even in a scramble drill scenario.

 

Allen always takes the blame head-on, saying he didn’t trust his feet and that he needs to be better at going through his progressions. He brought up one throw he missed to Moore, which, to be fair, he did, but the reason he’s probably beating himself up over it is because it was the only time all game a wide receiver was uncovered enough more than 15 yards from the line of scrimmage to warrant a target. You read that correctly. That target was the only time, all game, that Allen attempted a pass to a wide receiver that went further than 15 yards.

…

On all 19 of Allen’s passing attempts, his receiver’s average depth of target was 6.11 yards down the field. On his 12 completions, the average depth of the target shrinks to 3.92 yards per completion. That means 71.2 percent of Allen’s passing yards were after the catch. If you think that’s worrisome, let’s isolate the wide receivers. Of Allen’s 12 attempts to the wide receiver group on Sunday, his average depth of target decreased to 4.75 yards. He completed eight of those passes, with an average depth of target of 0.75 yards. In total, Allen gained only six yards with his arm to receivers through the air. The other 104 yards came after the catch. Allen did not complete a single pass to a wide receiver over 8 yards. He only completed a pass of over four air yards one time the entire game.

Now to the anti-magnum opus — let’s remove Shakir from the equation and focus solely on the boundary receivers. Allen completed only two passes for 22 yards to those receivers, all game, with a 40 percent completion rate. Coleman had both receptions.

The Bills aren’t always going to be facing teams with a backup quarterback surrendering the ball all game long. They can’t depend solely on the running game every week. They are going to be down in some games and need to rely on their passing attack to get them out of trouble. There will be teams that, like the Bills saw in Weeks 5 and 6, will dare them to throw by bottling up their ground game. If the Bills don’t have an answer early in games, there really isn’t much confidence they’ll be able to do it late. There have been no signs since the first week of the season that the Bills can be a consistent enough team, outside the numbers, to win through the air. … The Bills desperately need another boundary receiver. They need to be able to challenge defenses past 20 yards through the air. Heck, they need to challenge defenses past 10 yards. If they want to unlock their MVP quarterback and reinstall some of the magic the offense has lost, they must go out and strike for a receiver who can instantly become a starter, and potentially Allen’s top target outside the numbers. And in doing so, it might make their running game even better. It will be costly, and the Bills will want to find the right situation, but the need is as clear as day. It all depends on how much the Bills are willing to spend to get the right receiver.

 

 

I've said this for a few years now. The Bill's management (Beane) is WASTING one of the all time great talents this league has ever seen. GET THE GUY SOME FREAKING WEAPONS!!!! When Beane passed on McConkey , I almost blew a gasket!!!! In their ultimate wisdom, they decided that a slow, jump ball guy(and apparently immature) is a better fit.  How much money has Beane poured into a D-line that has been mediocre? The Bills have the worst wideouts in the league by far. This is such poor management of this great quarterback!!! McDermott shares some responsibility for this too, I suspect, since he basically hired Beane. I could get into hiring Joe Brady over a guy like McDaniels, but that's a whole other story. 😒

[Buffalo716]

1 minute ago, first_and_ten said:

 

I've said this for a few years now. The Bill's management (Beane) is WASTING one of the all time great talents this league has ever seen. GET THE GUY SOME FREAKING WEAPONS!!!! When Beane passed on McConkey , I almost blew a gasket!!!! In their ultimate wisdom, they decided that a slow, jump ball guy(and apparently immature) is a better fit.  How much money has Beane poured into a D-line that has been mediocre? The Bills have the worst wideouts in the league by far. This is such poor management of this great quarterback!!! McDermott shares some responsibility for this too, I suspect, since he basically hired Beane. I could get into hiring Joe Brady over a guy like McDaniels, but that's a whole other story. 😒

Josh Allen said he texted keon Coleman before the draft and said he's the guy he wanted

[first_and_ten]

Just now, Buffalo716 said:

Josh Allen said he texted keon Coleman before the draft and said he's the guy he wanted

 

Of course he's going to say that after they drafted him. What's he going to say, I REALLY wanted McConkey?

[Buffalo716]

9 minutes ago, first_and_ten said:

 

Of course he's going to say that after they drafted him. What's he going to say, I REALLY wanted McConkey?

 

That would be a blatant lie then ...

 

Brandon Bean said Josh was heavily involved in the process

 

And before the draft.. texted keon Coleman saying you're who I want.. not after we picked him 

 

He doesn't have to say anything.. he could say welcome to Buffalo let's work hard

 

"If I get a call from Josh in the offseason, it's usually him seeing somebody on a highlight, running into somebody, throwing with somebody -- just something to ask me what I think about this guy," Beane said. "He called me at the Senior Bowl [to ask] what do I think about a couple of guys there. So he loves it."

 

Josh is obviously talking to beane about people he likes

Edited 2 hours ago by Buffalo716

[first_and_ten]

5 minutes ago, Buffalo716 said:

 

That would be a blatant lie then ...

 

Brandon Bean said Josh was heavily involved in the process

 

And before the draft.. texted keon Coleman saying you're who I want.. not after we picked him 

 

Josh texted him before we picked him saying you're who I want...

 

It doesn't have to say anything.. he could say welcome to Buffalo let's work hard

 

Who's the GM , Allen or Beane? Beane decided to pick Coleman over McConkey. Are you saying Beane picked a guy, knowing a better option was there just to appease Allen? I don't buy it. No, Allen doesn't have to say, "I wanted you", but "let's work hard" doesn't inspire confidence. But this being said, you've missed the point of my post. 

[The Jokeman]

13 minutes ago, mjt328 said:

 

I understand Josh Allen's mindset, because it's very close to my own.

 

At this point, who cares about the MVP award, AFC East titles and Wild Card Round victories?  He's experienced this team accomplish all of that, and then not be good enough when it actually matters. 

 

Over time, continually falling short wears on you.  I don't really get excited for regular season success.  And I get way more frustrated when the team plays like trash than I did 2-4 years ago.  I literally have no patience with this team anymore, because I've seen the same song and dance.  We keep hearing about the process and getting better... only to see a rinse/repeat every single season.  The optimistic fans keep pointing out how we have stretches like this midseason and then turn it up down the stretch.  But WHEN will this team stop squandering their chance at the #1 seed/bye with ridiculous garbage losses to inferior opponents?  In truth, the Bills aren't getting better, because every season we restart and go through the same thing.

 

Every year, Allen is going out there and sacrificing his body - carrying a mediocre offense on his shoulders.  He finally gets the running game he always needed, and it's literally the same time our top WR exits town and doesn't get replaced.  At some point, the guy is just going to get mentally worn out.

I love Josh as anyone but his struggles and forcing things are part of the reason this team is not undefeated. Yes, there's others to blame as well but if your part of the problem you get part of the blame. In which doing now. History is just that though we can't go back and change and only look forward and in the last 1.5 games the Bills defense has given up 12 points. Hopefully they can maintain playing at this level and Cook will be his great self and JA17 will get out of his current funk to make us that much better. As one thing Josh had done for most of his career is make the WRs around him better but so far this season he's struggled doing that. 

[The Jokeman]

1 minute ago, first_and_ten said:

 

Who's the GM , Allen or Beane? Beane decided to pick Coleman over McConkey. Are you saying Beane picked a guy, knowing a better option was there just to appease Allen? I don't buy it. No, Allen doesn't have to say, "I wanted you", but "let's work hard" doesn't inspire confidence. But this being said, you've missed the point of my post. 

Simply put McConkey simply didn't fill the skill set we wanted. He is predominately a slot guy as seen by his 63% slot routes thus far in his career. We were looking for an outside WR which Keon appeared to be based on his size and contested catch ability in college. I'm sick of people painting all WRs with the same brush because they aren't. 

[Buffalo716]

7 minutes ago, first_and_ten said:

 

Who's the GM , Allen or Beane? Beane decided to pick Coleman over McConkey. Are you saying Beane picked a guy, knowing a better option was there just to appease Allen? I don't buy it. No, Allen doesn't have to say, "I wanted you", but "let's work hard" doesn't inspire confidence. But this being said, you've missed the point of my post. 

 

Obviously beane is the general manager...

 

But he's obviously working with his 300 million Star quarterback.. if Josh said Xavier Worthy is the guy I wanted before the draft.. they obviously wouldn't have traded that pick.. 

 

Tom Brady has said multiple times he had his fingerprints over the entire organization of New England... He helped put together game plans, in the meeting rooms he was active about what's getting installed... He said he helped out the defense got them up to speed 

 

To be the best you have to do all that also...

 

Beane is pulling the trigger... But when it comes to a weapon for Josh Allen.. I bet if Josh says no I don't want this guy they won't draft him.. I bet if Josh said yes give me Xavier worthy they wouldn't have traded back 

 

Obviously Brandon Bean if he is adamant player x is going to be a superstar shouldn't let Josh talk him into somebody else... But you should also probably listen to the opinion of your 350 million Superstar quarterback when it comes to his weapons because he might prefer a certain type of wide receiver

Edited 2 hours ago by Buffalo716

[first_and_ten]

Just now, The Jokeman said:

Simply put McConkey simply didn't fill the skill set we wanted. He is predominately a slot guy as seen by his 63% slot routes thus far in his career. We were looking for an outside WR which Keon appeared to be based on his size and contested catch ability in college. I'm sick of people painting all WRs with the same brush because they aren't. 

 

Who would you rather have right now, Coleman or McConkey? But I get your point. Another reach, just like Elam then😒

[Buffalo716]

FYI Tom Brady said the Buffalo Bills are winning the super bowl

 

For all you Bills fans the Wonder boy with seven super bowls still think it's the bills

[The Jokeman]

Just now, first_and_ten said:

 

Who would you rather have right now, Coleman or McConkey? But I get your point. Another reach, just like Elam then😒

Considering that McConkey would take Shakir off the field or out of position. Give me Coleman. 

[first_and_ten]

3 minutes ago, Buffalo716 said:

 

Obviously beane is the general manager...

 

But he's obviously working with his 300 million Star quarterback.. if Josh said Xavier Worthy is the guy I wanted before the draft.. they obviously wouldn't have traded that pick.. 

 

Tom Brady has said multiple times he had his fingerprints over the entire organization of New England... He helped put together game plans, in the meeting rooms he was active about what's getting installed... He said he helped out the defense got them up to speed 

 

To be the best you have to do all that also...

 

Beane is pulling the trigger... But when it comes to a weapon for Josh Allen.. I bet if Josh says no I don't want this guy they won't draft him.. I bet if Josh said yes give me Xavier worthy they wouldn't have traded back 

 

Obviously Brandon Bean if he is adamant player x is going to be a superstar shouldn't let Josh talk him into somebody else... But you should also probably listen to the opinion of your 350 million Superstar quarterback when it comes to his weapons because he might prefer a certain type of wide receiver

 

Allen doesn't scout receivers in his spare time, as best as I can discern. Good GMs don't let a quarterback make picks for them. Brady might have done all that after winning Super Bowls. I guarantee he wasn't so involved while In Josh's position. Maybe we should blame Josh for the Elam pick? To be honest, Josh seems like a humble guy, who doesn't overstep his bounds. I doubt Josh was asked about drafting Worthy or trading the pick. 

[Pete]

5 minutes ago, Buffalo716 said:

FYI Tom Brady said the Buffalo Bills are winning the super bowl

 

For all you Bills fans the Wonder boy with seven super bowls still think it's the bills

Our running game is Super Bowl worthy.  Our defense is refortified, Larry O, Hoecht, and Max are HUGE additions.  I believe the defense is now good enough to win the Super Bowl.

 

Our passing offense today is not Super Bowl worthy. Everyone has theories why it’s broken, but we agree it’s broken.  How does an Offense with Josh, Cook, great OL, solid TEs, and a great slot receiver, how in the world is that passing offense broken?

Edited 2 hours ago by Pete

[first_and_ten]

4 minutes ago, The Jokeman said:

Considering that McConkey would take Shakir off the field or out of position. Give me Coleman. 

 

😂🤣😂😂