What's wrong with Josh?

[3rdand12]

A very good team can refocus from week to week. lean on the run , lean on the pass.

 Defend the same.

 When McDermott started in Buffalo he spoke of being multiple.

I took that as game day flexibility. week to week and half to half

Not sure he has achieved that, but still feel that is the mantra.

7 minutes ago, Buffalo716 said:

 

You saw it coming yeah.. but again maybe you're just looking at how the personnel on the bills came together... There is a lot of turnover in the NFL

 

That doesn't mean this is how it's going to be in 4 years that's also the truth 

 

If it is there's a problem.. nothing from McDermott says he wants this all the time.. in fact in his press conference somebody said you say you love the running game and he snapped back and said I have never said that

 

He wants to win on Sunday the best way possible.. which right now is obviously not throwing the ball 50 times over the yard with the wide receivers we have

 

Him or beane is not going to have a job in 2 years if they don't fix the passing game

As mentioned

 Brady has the skill and knowledge /exp to run an exceptional  pass game.

Not counting that out just yet 😋

 

[julian]

4 hours ago, VW82 said:

So...just as a reminder wrt Panthers game...

 

1. Josh was essentially blaming himself in the post game presser for passing game struggles.

2. Bills media guys doing all 22 are pinning a lot of the struggles on Josh.

 

I get everyone wants to blame the receivers, and they definitely deserve blame for what we've seen this year, but it's time for some on this forum to admit Josh has been subpar in a lot of these games. He needs to be better for this team.    

In fairness, Allen blaming himself carries zero weight because he always puts the blame on himself publicly for any issues on offense.

[mjt328]

If a quarterback is constantly getting pressured and hit... eventually they will start rushing throws and bailing from the pocket early.  Even when the O-Line finally manages to give some decent time, that lack of trust in the blocking has gotten into the QB's head.   

 

In the same way, if receivers are constantly having trouble getting open... eventually a quarterback will start moving through progressions too quickly and hesitating to pull the trigger.  That's when he starts missing guys even when they are open.

 

I truly believe this is the root of what's wrong with Josh Allen right now.  He's admitted that he's not trusting what he's seeing on the field.  So what does that exactly mean?  From the level of play we've consistently witnessed in the past, I have a hard time believing Defensive Coordinators suddenly figured out new ways to confuse him in Year 9.  The lack of trust comes from the supporting cast - in particular the outside WRs.

 

[BillytheKid]

Allen has a 156 passer rating throwing to Tight Ends and Shakir in the middle of the field. 
 

The problem is when he throws to receivers and mainly Coleman, because Coleman has gotten the most snaps and targets , his passer rating drops a LOT.

 

Bills are number one in the league in EPA by FAR throwing to the middle of the field and Tight Ends and Shakir, but when they throw outside to mainly Coleman since he gets the most snaps and targets the Bills number one EPA drops to a negative EPA number and down to 21st in the league. 
 

Now that was before the Carolina game. 
 

In the Carolina game Coleman got targeted 4 times and caught 3 of them for 30 yards, 10 yards per catch. The one he didn’t catch was actually Allen’s fault. So Coleman did better in the Carolina game. None of them were back shoulder throws though so that helped. 
 

Tight Ends were targeted 7 times and caught 4 of them for 53 yards in the game for 13.25 yards per catch. 
 

I know at least one of them to Kincaid was Allen’s fault. Then he targeted Moore 4 times and Moore caught 1 of them and a couple of the others were Josh misses when Moore was wide open.

 

He was 6 for 6 in the 3rd qtr. though and obviously didn’t play the 4th. 
 

They need Palmer when healthy on the field with Shakir and Kincaid. Then throw to the middle of the field with the running game. 
 

KC will crowd the line this week I’m sure and take away the short passing game and try to stuff the run. They will need to pass it farther down field. 

So hopefully Palmer is healthy or they make a trade which is seeming less likely now. 
 

Josh Hasn’t been perfect by any means but this is all Beane and Brady's fault. 
 

It’s not McDermott. McDermott hasn’t agreed with all of Brady’s calls and he let Daboll call all of the plays when he was here. 
 

Brady has just neutered Allen. Beane hasn’t gotten the best receivers. The B&B twins ruining the offense. Brady  loves to run the ball too much. 
 

Allen’s numbers last year , combined with this year suck since Brady has been OC as far as passing numbers go. 
 

The BB boys holding the Buffalo offense back. 

[Big Blitz]

8 minutes ago, mjt328 said:

If a quarterback is constantly getting pressured and hit... eventually they will start rushing throws and bailing from the pocket early.  Even when the O-Line finally manages to give some decent time, that lack of trust in the blocking has gotten into the QB's head.   

 

In the same way, if receivers are constantly having trouble getting open... eventually a quarterback will start moving through progressions too quickly and hesitating to pull the trigger.  That's when he starts missing guys even when they are open.

 

I truly believe this is the root of what's wrong with Josh Allen right now.  He's admitted that he's not trusting what he's seeing on the field.  So what does that exactly mean?  From the level of play we've consistently witnessed in the past, I have a hard time believing Defensive Coordinators suddenly figured out new ways to confuse him in Year 9.  The lack of trust comes from the supporting cast - in particular the outside WRs.

 

 

Both of those things were happening specifically against NE and ATL.  

[DuckyBoys]

well what defense is  going to be scared of getting beat over the top by this receiving core?  If I was facing the Bills I'd dare them to over the top    

[milfandcookies]

1 minute ago, DuckyBoys said:

well what defense is  going to be scared of getting beat over the top by this receiving core?  If I was facing the Bills I'd dare them to over the top    

corps not core in this instance

 

idk babe maybe they would be more scared if we tried throwing it deep once in awhile 

[GoBills808]

54 minutes ago, Buffalo716 said:

 

You saw it coming yeah.. but again maybe you're just looking at how the personnel on the bills came together... There is a lot of turnover in the NFL

 

That doesn't mean this is how it's going to be in 4 years that's also the truth 

 

If it is there's a problem.. nothing from McDermott says he wants this all the time.. in fact in his press conference somebody said you say you love the running game and he snapped back and said I have never said that

 

He wants to win on Sunday the best way possible.. which right now is obviously not throwing the ball 50 times over the yard with the wide receivers we have

 

Him or beane is not going to have a job in 2 years if they don't fix the passing game

I mean McDermott spent every 2023 post-loss presser talking about how Allen had to 'change his game' and bemoaning the lack of 'toughness' on offense

 

This shouldn't be some huge surprise

[BillytheKid]

Bills offensive Numbers Before Brady and with Brady as OC

 

 

2020-21 to 2023-24 season

Allen’s numbers 

 

265.75 yards per game passing

37.42 rushing yards per game

 

303 total yards per game

2.63 Touchdowns per game

————————————————————————————————

Brady as OC in 2024-25 and 7 games so far this year

 

Allen’s numbers 

220 pass yards per game

33 rush yards per game

 

253 total yards per game

2.41 td’s per game

 

————————————————————————————————

 

With Brady as OC

 

Allen 45 less passing yards per game

 

4 less rushing yards per game

 

Basically 50 total yards less per game

 

 

0.21 less TD’s per game

 

3.5 less TD’s per year.

—————————————————-

 

Buffalo as a team 

 

Before Brady 127 rush yards per game

 

141 yards per game with Brady as OC

 

 

 

Before Brady

 

389 total yards per game 

 

With Brady

 

366 total yards per game

 

——————————————

 

14 more yards per game rushing with Brady

 

23 less total yards per game with Brady. 

Edited 10 hours ago by BillytheKid

[Buffalo716]

3 minutes ago, GoBills808 said:

I mean McDermott spent every 2023 post-loss presser talking about how Allen had to 'change his game' and bemoaning the lack of 'toughness' on offense

 

This shouldn't be some huge surprise

 

As McDermott said in his press conference on Sunday physicality can be in the passing game also 

 

he wants a physical offense.. whether it's passing or running 

 

It all starts up front... You could be physical and a passing offense

 

Yeah Josh Allen led the league in interceptions in 2023 if I recall... That's what he had to change some decision-making ... Brett favre is one of the best quarterbacks ever and he has the most interceptions ever... But he could have cleaned up his game a little bit

 

I've never heard Sean McDermott say Josh Allen needs to stop playing with passion and being a playmaker 

Edited 10 hours ago by Buffalo716

[GoBills808]

Just now, Buffalo716 said:

 

As McDermott said in his press conference on Sunday physicality can be in the passing game also 

 

he wants a physical offense.. whether it's passing or running 

 

It all starts up front... 

 

Yeah Josh Allen led the league in interceptions in 2023 if I recall... That's what he had to change some decision-making 

 

I've never heard Sean McDermott say Josh Allen needs to stop playing with passion and being a playmaker 

Then sorry to say but you weren't lostening

[Buffalo716]

8 minutes ago, GoBills808 said:

Then sorry to say but you weren't lostening

Can you play the press conference where Sean McDermott said he wants Josh Allen to stop making plays? 

 

He certainly did say on Sunday I want a physical offense.. he shot back at the question about running and he did say you can be physical running and passing

 

He didn't say I want to run the ball he said I want to be physical 

 

"I know the value of being a two-dimensional offense. I do value physical football, and it starts up front, whether you're throwing it or you're running it

 

We just don't have brown Beasley and digs to open up the passing game but we do have the lineup front to run the ball and win NFL games and then when Josh needs to make some plays he can and he typically does

 

 James Cook is a great football player and he's helping our team.. I have no doubt McDermott would throw the ball more if we had better wide receivers but everything he said is correct you do need to be able to do both 

 

Our passing game needs to improve but I don't think Sean McDermott is okay where it's at.. he certainly wants it better

 

 

Edited 10 hours ago by Buffalo716

[90sBills]

1 hour ago, FireChans said:

I think @GoBills808 point is that they can say “if we had great WRs we’d be chucking bombs all day” but the organization has made it plain as day with their actions that that is not a priority imo.

 

It’s like when the Steelers say they need better QB play but always seek out bandaids and 1 year guys instead of targeting a highly drafted prospect. They are showing you what they prioritize.

It was the success they had with this philosophy after they fired Dorsey and elevated Brady. Brady took the ball out of Allen’s hands by leaning on the run and the offense thrived. They continued that last year with even greater success. 
 

This is the way according to Brady/McD. 

[Buffalo716]

3 minutes ago, 90sBills said:

It was the success they had with this philosophy after they fired Dorsey and elevated Brady. Brady took the ball out of Allen’s hands by leaning on the run and the offense thrived. They continued that last year with even greater success. 
 

This is the way according to Brady/McD. 

Maybe because we had a better offensive run blocking line and a better running back then we had pass catchers 

 

If you have a great running back and not great wide receivers but you choose to throw the ball 50 times a game you're not a good coach

[90sBills]

Just now, Buffalo716 said:

Maybe because we had a better offensive run blocking line and a better running back then we had pass catchers 

 

If you have a great running back and not great wide receivers but you choose to throw the ball 50 times a game you're not a good coach

Oh I get it. You’re going to see more and more teams sell out to stop the run. Make Allen and the passing game beat them. That’s just a crazy notion with an elite qb. 
 

I think this will be KC’s gameplan this weekend. Similar to how they shut down Detroit’s high power offense. 

[Buffalo716]

4 minutes ago, 90sBills said:

Oh I get it. You’re going to see more and more teams sell out to stop the run. Make Allen and the passing game beat them. That’s just a crazy notion with an elite qb. 
 

I think this will be KC’s gameplan this weekend. Similar to how they shut down Detroit’s high power offense. 

 

In a salary cap League where we haven't had a top 10 pick in 7-8 years to get some of that blue chip talent? 

 

On the flip side the eagles have had two top 10 picks in that span.. took devante Smith, and their beast defensive tackle.. then they had the 12th overall pick where they took their other beast defensive tackle 

 

The bills haven't even been in that spot for drafting in 8 years 

 

We don't have 90 million in the off-season to try to buy a number one wide receiver and we don't have the draft pick to draft them

 

Well before we even drafted Josh Allen on this board the consensus was Hall of Fame quarterbacks elevate the wide receivers around them.. they take good to great , great to world class.. average to good 

 

 yeah we need to give Josh better weapons but we're in a salary cap restraint and we hit on a star running back in the second round

Edited 10 hours ago by Buffalo716

[90sBills]

8 minutes ago, Buffalo716 said:

 

In a salary cap League where we haven't had a top 10 pick in 7-8 years to get some of that blue chip talent? 

 

On the flip side the eagles have had two top 10 picks in that span.. took devante Smith, and their beast defensive tackle.. then they had the 12th overall pick where they took their other beast defensive tackle 

 

The bills haven't even been in that spot for drafting in 8 years 

 

We don't have 90 million in the off-season to try to buy a number one wide receiver and we don't have the draft pick to draft them

 

Well before we even drafted Josh Allen on this board the consensus was Hall of Fame quarterbacks elevate the wide receivers around them.. they take good to great , great to world class.. average to good 

 

 yeah we need to give Josh better weapons but we're in a salary cap restraint and we hit on a star running back in the second round

That logic would hold more weight if it weren’t for the team coming in to OP this weekend. They draft later than the Bills and somehow managed to field some pretty good receivers. 
 

I don’t think it’s a salary cap or draft position issue. I think it’s a talent evaluation issue. They have brought guys in via drafts and free agency. They’ve just missed more than hit. 

[Buffalo716]

7 minutes ago, 90sBills said:

That logic would hold more weight if it weren’t for the team coming in to OP this weekend. They draft later than the Bills and somehow managed to field some pretty good receivers. 
 

I don’t think it’s a salary cap or draft position issue. I think it’s a talent evaluation issue. They have brought guys in via drafts and free agency. They’ve just missed more than hit. 

I don't think their receivers are Head and shoulders better than ours 

 

Rice is the only one who is absolutely better than what we have... and they have a gimmicky play caller who puts these guys open in space which we don't do

 

Ju ju and worthy are washes when we have a healthy Palmer and shakir and even Coleman is gone for a hundred this year and I don't think worthy has

Edited 9 hours ago by Buffalo716

[90sBills]

2 minutes ago, Buffalo716 said:

I don't think their receivers are Head and shoulders better than ours 

 

Rice is the only one who is absolutely better than what we have... and they have a gimmicky play caller who puts these guys open in space which we don't do

 

Ju ju and worthy are washes when we have a healthy Palmer and shakir and even Coleman is gone for a hundred this year and I don't think worthy has

I think they are. No matter how great Reid is as a play caller and designer they were pedestrian last year when their receivers were injured. Look how dynamic they are now.
 

The big difference is speed. It doesn’t seem like Bills coaching staff values or know how to use speed. 

[CincyBillsFan]

1 hour ago, Brand J said:

I think there’s a difference between throwing shade at Allen and acknowledging he’s not playing at the level the Bills need if we’re going to go far this year. Right now I’m not overly concerned, but this team will go as far as Josh Allen takes it. Not James Cook, not any other player but Josh. We all want him to be better, but it’s annoying reading posts that go to great lengths to blame everything and everyone else but the QB.
 

Multiple things can be wrong with the passing game, I still think Joe Brady and his passing designs is most at fault followed by Allen. Joe Marino actually has Allen at the top of the list and says “receivers are open throughout the game and I've got the video to prove it,” but for many here Allen is almost without blame entirely. That is a weird fetish, a mother hen type of protection that no other player enjoys. Guess “Bills Mafia” is an apt name 😅 

I see no value in placing Allen's play under a microscope and nit picking his every throw. Of course Allen is not without blame here.  But from what I can see the critique of Allen is that he isn't elite in every game.  IMO that is an unrealistic expectation of any player.

 

I could put together a 30 minute highlight reel of Allen making amazing plays through the first 7 games of this season.  If you combined ALL the WR plays how many would truly be amazing?  With the exception of Shakir's elite RAC plays the Bills WR's have not done much that would make anyone's highlight reel. 

 

As for saying that some of us are acting like "mother hens" protecting Allen all I can say is that Allen has earned it with years of elite play.  Who else on the Bills can say that?  Maybe Cook but his exceptional play has only been for a year and a half.  

 

I'm just not ready to embrace posts critical of Allen.  They reek of "what have you done for me lately".  That might change if I see a season long Allen slump where he doesn't put the cape on.  And for the record there is a difference between an in the moment harsh of criticism of a bad Allen throw, which I have shouted at the TV on more then one occasion, and having entire treads wondering if his married life is causing him to now "suck".  

 

As for Marino I like and respect his opinion but I suspect there's more context here then you're admitting.

 

IMO the issues with the Bills passing game, in order of importance are:

 

*  Lack of WR's that are effective at the boundary and can stretch defenses downfield.  In fact the Bills have a bottom 5 WR room by any reasonable measure.

 

*  The design & structure of the passing game and the new emphasis on running the football.  McD & Brady are robbing "Peter to pay Paul".  

 

*  Allen is not as good a QB under center as he is in shotgun.  I have confidence that Allen will improve here but the poor WR room complicates things.  

 

*  The O line is better at run blocking then pass protection.  And the low number of Allen sacks is due more to Allen's ability to escape then the O line maintaining the pocket.

 

I suspect that if you fix the WR room so that it is average by NFL standards you will see a significant improvement in the passing game.