Game week thread - Pats at Bills SNF

[boyst]

1 hour ago, Scott7975 said:

 

Personally I put it on McD either way. Pretty sure I seen McD with a play sheet covering his mouth so it seems he was calling stuff. Even if he wasn't, there was timeouts so you can't tell me he didn't have time each play to let the defense know exactly what he wanted.

 

I think at the time the players all thought the game was in the bag and were not focused. The thrill of that last Josh TD to take the lead at 13 seconds is just something you know adrenally they were feeling. It was unheard of for a team to march a field in 13 seconds and ***** a game. So it's on them too.

The locker room and plane ride home were terrible. The locker room was ready to fight and they were damn near gonna start a mutiny 

[fergie's ire]

4 hours ago, SoCal Deek said:

Cornell has ‘huge football fans’? Who knew? 😉

I grew up a few miles from the campus and it was always fun to go to games....and hey, when I was a kid they had Big ED...Ed Marinaro (future star of Hill Street Blues).  He was robbed, robbed I tell ya, of the Heisman Trophy.

[fergie's ire]

2 hours ago, Scott7975 said:

 

Pro football reference is a good site for advanced stats like that.  It shows we have blitzed 47 times so far. 

Link: https://www.pro-football-reference.com/teams/buf/2025_advanced.htm

Thanks....but I think it might be beyond me.  I saw individual totals and then a team total at the bottom.  But then is that total number of blitzes or total number of blitzers?  In other words if they send Taron and Bernard on one play, is that two bitzes or one on their total?  Plus I wanted a comparison to last year, so a blitz percentage for the year would be helpful...I know that could be figured out from this information...but that is too much math for my brain.

[Low Positive]

I've been watching a bunch of plays where the Saints gained yards on their first drive.

• One thing that I see (that @Simon highlighted) is that the DBs and LBs are confused about where they are supposed to be. So they are often not set at the snap. This is something that should improve with reps.
• DTs are getting pushed wide, opening up the middle of the field for QB scrambles. That's what happened on that 3-7 on the Saints first drive. The pass rush got there, but the sea opened in front of Rattler. They need to stay in their lanes better.
• On the scramble that was a few plays later (with the Tre holding call), the Bills were in cover 1 man. Everyone but Cole Bishop is in the box. They ran play action with the whole line moving to their left. The defense went with them, and Rattler rolled right. No one was open, but the seas opened up and he ran. Everyone was covered, for what's its worth. I think the play was designed to go to the crossing route that Tre held.
• The long TD run was as frustrating from the top as it was on TV. The Bills had 9 guys in the box. There were 3 missed tackles. It was a failure of execution. Under no circumstances should the photo I linked here be a TD.
• 

[YattaOkasan]

15 minutes ago, fergie's ire said:

Thanks....but I think it might be beyond me.  I saw individual totals and then a team total at the bottom.  But then is that total number of blitzes or total number of blitzers?  In other words if they send Taron and Bernard on one play, is that two bitzes or one on their total?  Plus I wanted a comparison to last year, so a blitz percentage for the year would be helpful...I know that could be figured out from this information...but that is too much math for my brain.

@Scott7975 reminded me where to look. Blitz rate for every team here at PFR

 

https://www.pro-football-reference.com/years/2025/opp.htm#all_advanced_defense

[fergie's ire]

6 minutes ago, YattaOkasan said:

@Scott7975 reminded me where to look. Blitz rate for every team here at PFR

 

https://www.pro-football-reference.com/years/2025/opp.htm#all_advanced_defense

Ah nice!  And given that, I was able to backtrack to stats for last year.  They are at 26 percent...which a quick scan tells me they are high-middle in blitz rate. (Atlanta and Detroit lead the league in the mid 30s.)  Last year they blitzed 19 percent...so a pretty sizeable jump.

[Beck Water]

On 9/28/2025 at 9:24 PM, Fleezoid said:

I'd like to see the offense open up a bit. I understand a balanced offense approach, and Cook is tearing it up, but this offense lacks flare and creativity lately. Games we thought, and maybe should have been easy, haven't been.

 

I know they get a bad rap as being "Bills shills", but I thought it was interesting to listen to One Bills Live with Dan Orlovsky.  In fact I often like OBL when they have guest commentators like Orlovsky or Cosell who know a thing:

https://www.buffalobills.com/video/dan-orlovsky-new-england-is-an-interesting-matchup

They start out talking about the NO game and how NO started out playing man, which the Bills were having good success against.

Then they switched to two-high zone.  Orlovsky comments that the plays kept getting called "with that anticipation" (ie anticipation of man coverage) and there wasn't a "ton of opportunity" to throw the ball past 8 yards.  But he also comments that the receivers were "spacing poor" and  "there was a lot of guys not having definitive understanding of what their routes should look like given what that zone was"  (yikes)

Maybe it's not the flare and creativity that are lacking, but fundamentals of being able to read specifics of the zone coverage being utilized and reacting with the correct route option.

[K-9]

20 minutes ago, Low Positive said:

I've been watching a bunch of plays where the Saints gained yards on their first drive.

• One thing that I see (that @Simon highlighted) is that the DBs and LBs are confused about where they are supposed to be. So they are often not set at the snap. This is something that should improve with reps.
• DTs are getting pushed wide, opening up the middle of the field for QB scrambles. That's what happened on that 3-7 on the Saints first drive. The pass rush got there, but the sea opened in front of Rattler. They need to stay in their lanes better.
• On the scramble that was a few plays later (with the Tre holding call), the Bills were in cover 1 man. Everyone but Cole Bishop is in the box. They ran play action with the whole line moving to their left. The defense went with them, and Rattler rolled right. No one was open, but the seas opened up and he ran. Everyone was covered, for what's its worth. I think the play was designed to go to the crossing route that Tre held.
• The long TD run was as frustrating from the top as it was on TV. The Bills had 9 guys in the box. There were 3 missed tackles. It was a failure of execution. Under no circumstances should the photo I linked here be a TD.
• 

Per the bold text, one of the reasons for this confusion may lie with the crowd noise. I’ve heard several color analysts mention this at times. Makes a ton of sense given how dependent McD’s defense is on pre-snap communication. If crowd noise can impact the offense’s ability to hear the QB, it can certainly impact the ability of D players to hear Bernard and Rapp as they yell instruction as well. Just a thought.

[Beck Water]

On 9/29/2025 at 4:57 PM, Success said:

Are Ed and Milano definitely back for the Pats?

 

Any chance we see Hairston?

 

No chance on Hairston.  At best they would open up his practice window.  As a rookie who missed training camp he is going to need practice reps.

We won't know anything about Ed and Cookie until after practice tomorrow and even then the answer is likely to be "we'll see how the week develops"

[Sojourner]

52 minutes ago, boyst said:

The locker room and plane ride home were terrible. The locker room was ready to fight and they were damn near gonna start a mutiny 

Do we know why exactly? What were the points brought up that were voiced by players leading to those frustrations?

[TFBillsfan]

39 minutes ago, Low Positive said:

I've been watching a bunch of plays where the Saints gained yards on their first drive.

• One thing that I see (that @Simon highlighted) is that the DBs and LBs are confused about where they are supposed to be. So they are often not set at the snap. This is something that should improve with reps.
• DTs are getting pushed wide, opening up the middle of the field for QB scrambles. That's what happened on that 3-7 on the Saints first drive. The pass rush got there, but the sea opened in front of Rattler. They need to stay in their lanes better.
• On the scramble that was a few plays later (with the Tre holding call), the Bills were in cover 1 man. Everyone but Cole Bishop is in the box. They ran play action with the whole line moving to their left. The defense went with them, and Rattler rolled right. No one was open, but the seas opened up and he ran. Everyone was covered, for what's its worth. I think the play was designed to go to the crossing route that Tre held.
• The long TD run was as frustrating from the top as it was on TV. The Bills had 9 guys in the box. There were 3 missed tackles. It was a failure of execution. Under no circumstances should the photo I linked here be a TD.
• 

Cam Lewis missed a wide open tackle on the 3rd and 7. 

 

Solomon whiffed on the next Rattler scramble.

 

In the TD, Taron Johnson is in position and whiffed, Taylor Rapp then whiffs again and finally Tre was the last resort but was being blocked. Not sure what our LB’s were doing.

 

Also, they are at the 18 yard line so why is our S playing 16 yards deep at the snap?

 

That first drive highlighted  how atrocious the tackling was. They could have /should have easily gotten off the field on 3rd and 7. What is extremely disappointing, is these are experienced players making crucial mistakes. I believe we could understand if our rookies were struggling.

 

On Sunday, I saw way too many substitutions that resulted in the D not being set. In addition, New Orleans was purposely playing with pace offensively and yet we didn’t adjust. This resulted in multiple timeouts that were used by the defense. 

Edited Wednesday at 12:29 AM by TFBillsfan

[Low Positive]

7 minutes ago, TFBillsfan said:

Cam Lewis missed a wide open tackle on the 3rd and 7. 

 

Solomon whiffed on the next Rattler scramble.

 

In the TD, Taron Johnson is in position and whiffed, Taylor Rapp then whiffs again and finally Tre was the last resort but was being blocked. Not sure what our LB’s were doing.

 

Also, they are at the 18 yard line so why is our S playing 16 yards deep at the snap?

 

That first drive highlighted  how atrocious the tackling was. They could have /should have easily gotten off the field on 3rd and 7. What is extremely disappointing, is these are experienced players making crucial mistakes. I believe we could understand if our rookies were struggling.

 

On Sunday, I saw way too many substitutions that resulted in the D not being set. In addition, New Orleans was purposely playing with pace offensively and yet we didn’t adjust. This resulted in multiple timeouts that were used by the defense. 

What happened is that Cam Lewis starts in to cover a wide open Brandon Cooks and recognizes Rattler's scramble a split second too late. Here's what he sees the moment he decides to break inside towards Cooks.

[Beck Water]

52 minutes ago, K-9 said:

Per the bold text, one of the reasons for this confusion may lie with the crowd noise. I’ve heard several color analysts mention this at times. Makes a ton of sense given how dependent McD’s defense is on pre-snap communication. If crowd noise can impact the offense’s ability to hear the QB, it can certainly impact the ability of D players to hear Bernard and Rapp as they yell instruction as well. Just a thought.

 

Y'know, the crowd noise has been there for all years but 2020.  It's never been a factor before.

Just a reminder that the Bills had the #4 D in the league in 2023 with Bernard at MLB (and Babich involved in the defensive design though not officially DC) and the #11 D last year with Babich as officially DC.

In that time, the Bills have changed quite a bit of their defensive personnel.  

 

In 2023, the Bills had a core DL of Rousseau-Oliver-Phillips/Settle - Floyd (gap solid, good edge defenders) and an unexciting but assignment sound DB of Douglas-Benford-T Johnson - Poyer and Hyde.  The LB corps was sketch with Bernard and Dodson, but they compensated by bringing Poyer into the box on passing downs playing a form of dime.

 

In 2024, the Bills had a core DL of Epenesa-Oliver-DQ Jones - Rousseau (Epenesa not as good against the run) and a transitional DB of Douglas-Benford-T Johnson - Hamlin- and Rapp.   Mentally, those safeties are a big step down from Dr Poyer and Mr Hyde.   And, Douglas was losing a step.  They were not playing Johnson all the time, and playing more base D and (I think) more Dime.  The LB corps of Williams and Bernard was also a step back.

 

Now we've got Bosa, who has one wondering, was he ever expected to set the edge against the run?  Oliver has been out for 3 games so a rotating cast of who? at DT.  Again Williams, who I don't think is playing as well as last year and last year he struggled to be in the right spot.  Bishop is being given every possible chance to earn the starting safety spot, but it's clearly a learning curve for him.

 

Communicating the play call only goes so far if the Jimmies and Joes have trouble reading what the offense is doing and translating that into their proper response with that play call, or if they're busy thinking about it instead of playing fast with instinct..  The play calls are seldom "you - do this!" they're always a flowchart of where the player is supposed to be and what his responsibilities are depending upon what the offense actually does/how the receivers actually run their routes etc.

This is a transitional year for our defense, and several of the players we were counting on to anchor the transition are in the body-and-fender shop.  Several of the players we were counting on to improve the D, aren't out there.  @Simon I think it was, pointed it out: the defense can compensate for 1 or 2 missing starters or guys who aren't quite as assignment sound as you'd like.  But once it mounts up to a point, it's Bad News.

 

7 hours ago, Simon said:

 

I'm doubtful just because I think it would have reared its head more last year.

My hope is that it's just a combination of them a) willingly trying a bunch of new and different things (which they have been at times) and b) integrating a bunch of younger or newer players into the system. That could legitimately be the primary issue and it will clean itself up over time, but every time I make that argument in my head I just feel like I'm whistling past the graveyard. 

 

This is just my impression and I could be wrong, but I think Hamlin was more of a factor last year to the DB being assignment sound.  Physically, he's a limited player and him playing deep cost us yards, Mentally, he knew the system completely, knew where he was supposed to be and I think, kept Rapp in system.  Now we have Rapp trying to keep Bishop in the right place, which has elements (in my opinion) of the blind leading the blind.

Weren't you the one who argued that the loss of 1 or 2 starters can be compensated, but when it mounts up at every level of the defense, it's a problem?

The problem with integrating younger and newer players into the system where you may be right about whistling, is that it's an unknown whether their knowledge of the system and ability to read and react correctly will sharpen up with game time and repetition, or whether they're just not going to get it.

Edited Wednesday at 01:00 AM by Beck Water

[TFBillsfan]

Interesting D stats thru 4 games:

 

Top 3 leading tacklers are Benford, Bishop and Tre. That can’t be good.

 

Zero INTS by our CB’s

 

Walker having a very solid year thus far as a rookie. Sanders not so much.

 

Daquon Jones and Bosa tied with two sacks each for the most sacks thus far. That equates to 8.5 sacks each for the year. 
 

 

 

[boyst]

1 hour ago, Sojourner said:

Do we know why exactly? What were the points brought up that were voiced by players leading to those frustrations?

Yes. It's finally made some articles but a lot changed after that. Hughes was a spark plug of it - he always butter heads with McD. The offense vs defense. 

[Breakout Squad]

2 hours ago, Beck Water said:

 

No chance on Hairston.  At best they would open up his practice window.  As a rookie who missed training camp he is going to need practice reps.

We won't know anything about Ed and Cookie until after practice tomorrow and even then the answer is likely to be "we'll see how the week develops"

Cookie? 🤮😝

[Beck Water]

36 minutes ago, Breakout Squad said:

Cookie? 🤮😝

Not original to me

[Success]

You know what?

 

I still hate the New England Patriots.

 

 

[YattaOkasan]

2 hours ago, TFBillsfan said:

Interesting D stats thru 4 games:

 

Top 3 leading tacklers are Benford, Bishop and Tre. That can’t be good.

 

Zero INTS by our CB’s

 

Walker having a very solid year thus far as a rookie. Sanders not so much.

 

Daquon Jones and Bosa tied with two sacks each for the most sacks thus far. That equates to 8.5 sacks each for the year. 
 

 

 

Interestingly we’re third in pressure rate though.  Not sure PFR is to be trusted on this one. But would explain why our pass defense has been so good. Just need to stop the third and longs from the Miami game. 
 

https://www.pro-football-reference.com/years/2025/opp.htm#all_advanced_defense

[Harold Jackson]

This might be one of the 2 or 3 games ,Bills lose this season.