A Different Vibe from McDermott

[FireChans]

To hear this discussed, again, apparently McD is all that holds us back from going back to the drought while the Dolphins or Pats or Jets become the new AFCE dynasty, and the only coach they would even consider replacing McD with needs to have won multiple SB's and also be available for the Bills to hire and guarantee the Bills win a Super Bowl instantly otherwise its too big of a risk.

 

I get it. If I believed all those things, I wouldn't ever want a change either.

[Mikie2times]

1 hour ago, Max Fischer said:

Every playoff loss under McDermott, except one, came down to a handful of plays. The margins were razor-thin. A couple of missed tackles here, a coin flip there, a coverage breakdown, a failed 4th down — and suddenly we’re rewriting the whole legacy?

Or we blew a 16-0 2nd half lead to Houston. Got blown out in the AFC championship game vs KC.  Blew a FG lead with 13 seconds left because of the defensive alignment and kickoff strategy. Got blown out in the divisional round to the Bengals. Failed to convert a TD or FG in our final drive vs KC, and they would have got the ball back after averaging almost 8 yards a play and punting 1 time. Failed to get past midfield on our final drive, then couldn't KC off the field as the ran out the clock. If we score, they again, get the ball back. 

 

If you think just scoring either of the two years vs KC is close, just ask the 49ers or Eagles what that looks like. The trend is clear, failure to execute in the last 5 minutes with our competition being nearly Patriot like in execution in that time. You see close, I see an ocean separating us. Lets also not forget, we aren't even talking about the Super Bowl. A game we have seen previous versions of the franchise go to a fail 4 consecutive years. We have a long way to go.   

Edited September 5 by Mikie2times

[uticaclub]

1 hour ago, Nihilarian said:

 Rex Ryan took the best defensive front in the NFL and ruined it by changing over to "his" scheme. Buffalo, under DC Schwartz, had the best pass rush and sacks in the NFL. Ryan changed that to have the D linemen dropping into pass coverage so the crappy LBers could rush the passer. The man is a walking, talking wart! 

Yes, Rex did all those things but that doesn't mean McDermott would have kept Schwartz. We have no way on knowing & McDermott wasn’t a coaching candidate in 2015

Edited September 5 by uticaclub

[FireChans]

8 minutes ago, Mikie2times said:

Or we blew a 16-0 2nd half lead to Houston. Got blown out in the AFC championship game vs KC.  Blew a FG lead with 13 seconds left because of the defensive alignment and kickoff strategy. Got blown out in the divisional round to the Bengals. Failed to convert a TD or FG in our final drive vs KC, and they would have got the ball back after averaging almost 8 yards a play and punting 1 time. Failed to get past midfield on our final drive, then couldn't KC off the field as the ran out the clock. If we score, they again, get the ball back. 

 

If you think just scoring either of the two years vs KC is close, just ask the 49ers or Eagles what that looks like. The trend is clear, failure to execute in the last 5 minutes with our competition being nearly Patriot like in execution in that time. You see close, I see an ocean separating us. Lets also not forget, we aren't even talking about the Super Bowl. A game we have seen previous versions of the franchise go to a fail 4 consecutive years. We have a long way to go.   

None of this matters.  It doesn't matter the games are close and a play or two different makes a difference.

 

The bottom line is if the defense didn't allow the KC offense to play one of their best offensive games of the year, every year, we would win most of those games.

 

And that hasn't changed. They punked our defense when they had elite HoF players in 2020. Okay, well, they can't keep up that talent level forever. And the last two years, they haven't. They've been mediocre offensively ALL YEAR. And when they play us, they turn into the greatest show on turf. And we lose a close ones separated by a handful of plays, instead of winning going away with a reasonable defensive performance.

 

If that isn't going to be enough for people at 0-4, we will see if it is enough at 0-5. Look for KC scoring their highest point total of the season or close to it, again, vs the Bills. 

Edited September 5 by FireChans

[GoBills808]

1 hour ago, DrDawkinstein said:

 

 

 

If we fall short again in the playoffs this year, and it's once again obviously due to the defense, will that start you coming around? Or are you dug in on McD forever?

 

 

it's so crazy that you need to include this qualifier lol

 

i mean isn't that the whole point of hiring a guy w a defensive background

 

like SETTING ASIDE the fact that it's the HC's side of the ball that gets obliterated in the playoffs year in and year out...isn't falling short season after season reason enough lol

[ColoradoBills]

The Buffalo Bills are so close to winning it all.

 

The way I see it, McDermott has to be better in the playoffs and so does his entire staff.

The players also need to be better.

Every play is important, and the team needs to push a little more to get to its goal.

 

I like their chances this year.

Go Bills.

[GoBills808]

1 minute ago, ColoradoBills said:

The Buffalo Bills are so close to winning it all.

 

The way I see it, McDermott has to be better in the playoffs and so does his entire staff.

The players also need to be better.

Every play is important, and the team needs to push a little more to get to its goal.

 

I like their chances this year.

Go Bills.

how on earth can we be so close to winning it all w/out having ever even played in a Super Bowl lol

[ColoradoBills]

5 minutes ago, GoBills808 said:

how on earth can we be so close to winning it all w/out having ever even played in a Super Bowl lol

 

Wow.  They were a play away from being in the Super Bowl.

Is it so hard to see that.

 

I'll leave you to your own reasoning and I'll keep to mine.

[DrDawkinstein]

49 minutes ago, Max Fischer said:

 

Your turn. So tell us which coach is going to guarantee greater success? You have to assume the whole coaching staff goes.  What about Beane and the front office?  Do they escape your wrath, or is that too inconvenient? 

 

 

 

Sure. If you've read this thread I've already posted some names that many of us have/had been calling for over the last few years.

 

Beane can stay, this thread isnt about Beane. Nor have I ever posted about replacing Beane. He isnt perfect, but no GM is. And as you point out, continuity is good sometimes.

 

There is no "wrath", take a step back and calm down a bit. No one is beating up on McD. No one is calling him names or a failure. We've all been stating that he's very good. The issue is he doesnt have that last gear to get us to a Championship.

 

We're just discussing ways to improve, yet the McD-defenders are the ones that resort right to personal insults and hyperbole.

 

Addtionally, no one has claimed "guaranteed" success. Only that it is very likely to not regress considering Josh and the rest of the roster, especially compared to the rest of the Division. And I've shown there IS a track record of good teams with good QBs making a change and sustaining success. You havent been able to prove otherwise in any example. And given what McD has already shown, there is no way you can guarantee we'll ever do better.

 

I've already named Sean Payton, Jim Harbaugh, and Mike Vrabel as coaches that many of us had been calling for over the last few years.

 

Payton already out-coached McD head-to-head in 2023 in his first year with the hapless Broncos lead by lame duck Russell Wilson, when McD had to burn his time outs and then still messed up on the final FG having 12 men on the field, handing the Broncos another FG chance due to our disorganization. Payton has also turned the Broncos around with Bo frickin Nix at QB so there is zero chance of regressing with Josh here.

 

Vrabel will absolutely steal a win against us soon enough, likely with another Belichick-esque coaching maneuver to gain a last second FG or the like. Put money on it.

 

Heck, at this point I'd take a chance with Ben Johnson too.

 

Who knows who the next prospects are. We'll see how this season plays out and other options that pop up. I'd love to see a link to your posts in December 2016 calling for your beloved Sean McDermott to be hired. We didnt know then, just like we dont fully know who might be out there now.

 

But we certainly know McDermott's weaknesses and his refusal to step up in the playoffs, and his penchant for blowing decisions when it matters most. They have been proven over and over across the last 5-6 years. How many more do you need?

 

How much longer of Josh's prime do you give him? 1 year? 5? Rest of Josh's career?

 

 

Edited September 5 by DrDawkinstein

[GoBills808]

13 minutes ago, DrDawkinstein said:

 

Sure. If you've read this thread I've already posted some names that many of us have/had been calling for over the last few years.

 

Beane can stay, this thread isnt about Beane. Nor have I ever posted about replacing Beane. He isnt perfect, but no GM is. And as you point out, continuity is good sometimes.

 

There is no "wrath", take a step back and calm down a bit. No one is beating up on McD. No one is calling him names or a failure. We've all been stating that he's very good. The issue is he doesnt have that last gear to get us to a Championship.

 

Addtionally, no one has claimed "guaranteed" success. Only that it is very likely to not regress considering Josh and the rest of the roster, especially compared to the rest of the Division. And I've shown there IS a track record of good teams with good QBs making a change and sustaining success. You havent been able to prove otherwise in any example.

 

I've already named Sean Payton, Jim Harbaugh, and Mike Vrabel as coaches that many of us had been calling for over the last few years.

 

Payton already out-coached McD head-to-head in 2023 in his first year with the hapless Broncos lead by lame duck Russell Wilson, when McD had to burn his time outs and then still messed up on the final FG having 12 men on the field, handing the Broncos another FG chance due to our disorganization. Payton has also turned the Broncos around with Bo frickin Nix at QB so there is zero chance of regressing with Josh here.

 

Vrabel will absolutely steal a win against us soon enough, likely with another Belichick-esque coaching maneuver to gain a last second FG or the like. Put money on it.

 

Heck, at this point I'd take a chance with Ben Johnson too.

 

Who knows who the next prospects are. We'll see how this season plays out and other options that pop up. I'd love to see a link to your posts in December 2016 calling for your beloved Sean McDermott to be hired. We didnt know then, just like we dont fully know who might be out there now.

 

But we certainly know McDermott's weaknesses and his refusal to step up in the playoffs, and his penchant for blowing decisions when it matters most. They have been proven over and over across the last 5-6 years. How many more do you need?

 

How much longer of Josh's prime do you give him? 1 year? 5? Rest of Josh's career?

 

 

the answer is they will give mcdermott the entirety of allen's career 

 

if they haven't seen enough already they never will

[DrDawkinstein]

13 minutes ago, GoBills808 said:

the answer is they will give mcdermott the entirety of allen's career 

 

if they haven't seen enough already they never will

 

Likely the case. But I myself was a pretty ardent McD supporter all the way up to 2022/2023 (and still have a lot of love for the guy). But the trends are just too blatant to ignore at this point.

 

 

Edited September 5 by DrDawkinstein

[GoBills808]

1 minute ago, DrDawkinstein said:

 

Likely the case. But I myself was a pretty ardent McD supporter all the way up to 2022/2023 (and still have a lot of love for the guy). But the trends are just too blatant to ignore at this point.

 

 

im unclear on what exactly the appeal is but there were a lot of people who absolutely 100% though tyrod taylor was a good QB so i guess there's no accounting

 

my point is- at this point we have as much data on the HC spot vis a vis our chances of winning a Super Bowl as we're ever likely to and being that it's fairly obvious we're not going to make it w this one I don't understand the violent reactions you get from suggesting trying someone new

[FireChans]

6 minutes ago, GoBills808 said:

im unclear on what exactly the appeal is but there were a lot of people who absolutely 100% though tyrod taylor was a good QB so i guess there's no accounting

 

my point is- at this point we have as much data on the HC spot vis a vis our chances of winning a Super Bowl as we're ever likely to and being that it's fairly obvious we're not going to make it w this one I don't understand the violent reactions you get from suggesting trying someone new

There's lots of factors.

 

But really it comes back to breaking the drought and a lack of perspective to the rest of the NFL. 

 

The ones most ardently defending McD think that this era, winning the division every year, playoffs every year, etc etc started because of what happened on December 31st 2017. 

 

The folks engaging against them recognize, correctly, this era is the direct result of the decision made on April 26th 2018. 

 

That's why there's a visceral reaction to anything to the contrary. They truly believe McD is the lynchpin to the whole operation. They don't want to move on without a "guarantee" the next guy could do better. because they think without McD, we fall back in 20 years in the basement of the division while Justin Fields and Drake Maye and Tua just can't stop winning the AFCE.

 

I'm not even being facetious. You are arguing a return to potentially being a poverty franchise to them, and that was miserable for all Bills fans. 

[GoBills808]

4 minutes ago, FireChans said:

There's lots of factors.

 

But really it comes back to breaking the drought and a lack of perspective to the rest of the NFL. 

 

The ones most ardently defending McD think that this era, winning the division every year, playoffs every year, etc etc started because of what happened on December 31st 2017. 

 

The folks engaging against them recognize, correctly, this era is the direct result of the decision made on April 26th 2018. 

 

That's why there's a visceral reaction to anything to the contrary. They truly believe McD is the lynchpin to the whole operation. They don't want to move on without a "guarantee" the next guy could do better. because they think without McD, we fall back in 20 years in the basement of the division while Justin Fields and Drake Maye and Tua just can't stop winning the AFCE.

 

I'm not even being facetious. You are arguing a return to potentially being a poverty franchise to them, and that was miserable for all Bills fans. 

😂😂you and i have spoken about this at length for sure

 

and im ambivalent on whether fans who have watched the nfl for the last 3 decades and somehow still think the HC is more important than the QB are worth listening to lol

[FireChans]

7 minutes ago, GoBills808 said:

😂😂you and i have spoken about this at length for sure

 

and im ambivalent on whether fans who have watched the nfl for the last 3 decades and somehow still think the HC is more important than the QB are worth listening to lol

Hey I was probably the most dissenting to voice to you a year ago or so. I still thought the negatives outweighed the positives when it came to making a change.  

 

No longer lol

[T.E.]

2 hours ago, FireChans said:

To hear this discussed, again, apparently McD is all that holds us back from going back to the drought while the Dolphins or Pats or Jets become the new AFCE dynasty, and the only coach they would even consider replacing McD with needs to have won multiple SB's and also be available for the Bills to hire and guarantee the Bills win a Super Bowl instantly otherwise its too big of a risk.

 

I get it. If I believed all those things, I wouldn't ever want a change either.

The drought really did a number on some fans. "McDermott 4 Eva" types really just like watching the team make the playoffs consistently and are fine with just that.

 

Those who criticize McDermott believe that the goal is to win a Super Bowl, and not doing that with the most physically gifted QB in NFL history would be a gigantic disappointment. Best way to sum up the two camps.

Edited September 5 by T.E.

[SoCal Deek]

6 hours ago, Augie said:

 

 

This never gets a good answer from the perpetually dissatisfied. 

Perpetually? I like to think of it being better described as usually, routinely, and/or seasonally. 😉

[twoandfourteen]

3 hours ago, DrDawkinstein said:

 

Sure. If you've read this thread I've already posted some names that many of us have/had been calling for over the last few years.

 

Beane can stay, this thread isnt about Beane. Nor have I ever posted about replacing Beane. He isnt perfect, but no GM is. And as you point out, continuity is good sometimes.

 

There is no "wrath", take a step back and calm down a bit. No one is beating up on McD. No one is calling him names or a failure. We've all been stating that he's very good. The issue is he doesnt have that last gear to get us to a Championship.

 

We're just discussing ways to improve, yet the McD-defenders are the ones that resort right to personal insults and hyperbole.

 

Addtionally, no one has claimed "guaranteed" success. Only that it is very likely to not regress considering Josh and the rest of the roster, especially compared to the rest of the Division. And I've shown there IS a track record of good teams with good QBs making a change and sustaining success. You havent been able to prove otherwise in any example. And given what McD has already shown, there is no way you can guarantee we'll ever do better.

 

I've already named Sean Payton, Jim Harbaugh, and Mike Vrabel as coaches that many of us had been calling for over the last few years.

 

Payton already out-coached McD head-to-head in 2023 in his first year with the hapless Broncos lead by lame duck Russell Wilson, when McD had to burn his time outs and then still messed up on the final FG having 12 men on the field, handing the Broncos another FG chance due to our disorganization. Payton has also turned the Broncos around with Bo frickin Nix at QB so there is zero chance of regressing with Josh here.

 

Vrabel will absolutely steal a win against us soon enough, likely with another Belichick-esque coaching maneuver to gain a last second FG or the like. Put money on it.

 

Heck, at this point I'd take a chance with Ben Johnson too.

 

Who knows who the next prospects are. We'll see how this season plays out and other options that pop up. I'd love to see a link to your posts in December 2016 calling for your beloved Sean McDermott to be hired. We didnt know then, just like we dont fully know who might be out there now.

 

But we certainly know McDermott's weaknesses and his refusal to step up in the playoffs, and his penchant for blowing decisions when it matters most. They have been proven over and over across the last 5-6 years. How many more do you need?

 

How much longer of Josh's prime do you give him? 1 year? 5? Rest of Josh's career?

 

 

 

I’m with you 100% on McDermott, but I’m very much on the “Beane Needs To Go” train. 

 

I would argue that Beane’s many failures in the draft and free agency have been more detrimental to the team than the head coach. His approach to roster building and cap management is borderline negligent. 

 

In my opinion — without Josh Allen turning into Superman and a “ten-ply soft” AFC East, McDermott would have found himself as the Defensive Coordinator in Jacksonville and Beane would be back in Carolina as the Director of Pro Scouting. 

3 hours ago, GoBills808 said:

it's so crazy that you need to include this qualifier lol

 

i mean isn't that the whole point of hiring a guy w a defensive background

 

like SETTING ASIDE the fact that it's the HC's side of the ball that gets obliterated in the playoffs year in and year out...isn't falling short season after season reason enough lol

 

EXACTLY. 

 

The “benefit” of a defensive, um… “genius”, head coach is that it should free up the majority of resources for the offensive side of the ball — the coach’s schemes and gameplanning are supposed to provide a competitive advantage. 

 

Well, the past half-decade of defensive genius coaching and most of the draft and cap invested has resulted in a defense that has been not just awful in the playoffs — but historically the worst playoff defense in NFL history. 

 

McDermott arguably should have been canned after 13 seconds. He absolutely should have been fired after the debacle against Cincinnati. 

[Ethan in Cleveland]

On 9/4/2025 at 12:01 PM, newcam2012 said:

When do you say enough is enough? Let's look at the last 3 playoff exits. 

 

(1) 13 seconds. McD ripped the heart out of his players and fans. This disaster is 100% on him. No other way to put it. 

 

(2) Lost to Cincinnati in home playoff loss. I know Hamlin excuse is in full effect. What's not debatable is the team was flat, unprepared, and game planning was atrocious. To make it worse, the Bills had a free dress rehearsal in Cinci and learned nothing from it. Cincinnati was throttling the Bills defense. McD's game plan in the playoff game was atrocious.

 

(3) Another loss to KC. We fans have been clamoring for a home playoff game vs the Chiefs instead of being in Arrowhead. Yet, McD and the coaching staff lose again. What makes you think McD can lead this team past KC? He can't! The players most specifically Josh Allen will have to win despite McD. That should be clear in all fans minds. 

 

Three years and counting. When is enough enough? 

It was enough after 13 seconds.  Hamlin dying cost us the chance to move on from him that year.  They could have had their choice of Harbaugh, Belichick, or Johnson. But no way were they going to let McD go after the Hamlin incident. 

On 9/4/2025 at 9:37 AM, Gunner said:

Gruden took Dungy's Bucs to a SB win but his attitude destroyed the team shortly afterwards. Dungy's Bucs were a tight knit group, much like McD's Bills.

I will take a Lombardi and a destroyed team afterwards any day

[Ethan in Cleveland]

21 hours ago, Max Fischer said:

 

Man, are you fragile.  Your arguments are so weak. It's as if you want to completely separate Allen's development and the team's success from Beane and McDermott. It's like arguing Allen would have become elite without any input or design from McBeane and that Josh magically puts the team on his shoulders.  It's borderline pathological and makes no sense.  The front office and the coaches have made plenty of mistakes, and perhaps (perhaps) some other coach and GM could have done better, but you or I have no way of knowing. All I can do is present that they have put the team on the cusp of a Super Bowl, and for that, I give them credit where credit is due. 

What team have you been watching for the last several years? 

 

That's exactly what Allen has been doing.  Allen has developed despite the deficiencies of the coaching staff.  Daboll is floundering in NYC.  Dorsey was fired mid-season and was fired after sucking in Cleveland.  When Allen plays a bad game like the Texans last year it's not even close.  

It took Beane more than half a decade to finally get a decent O-line.  McDermott and Beane have used a ton of resources in the draft and cap space on the defense and it collapses every year.