Game week thread - Ravens at Bills SNF

[Beck Water]

37 minutes ago, stevewin said:

PSA - there was a separate thread created for exchanges with our troll friend - please don't feed him in this thread

 

 

 

 

It's a great try but unless you enlist a mod to move posts and reply posts, my Magic 8 Ball says not gonna help

[appoo]

10 minutes ago, henry jones said:

What this doesn’t show is how wide open his receivers are.  Aren’t his receivers #1 in separation rate or something like that.  Hes always had a great O-line which allows him time in the pocket and thus allows his wideouts time to get open.  Pretty sure I could hit the guys he’s throwing to!

https://nextgenstats.nfl.com/stats/receiving#average-cushion

 

 

 

[FranchiseSavior]

43 minutes ago, finn said:

Allen is hands-down  the best player. No contest. He is approaching Lamar as a runner (because he can truck people) and far surpasses him as a passer. Watch any game, any highlight reel, and you'll see Lamar running brilliantly. But throwing brilliantly? Not so much. No more than any other starter in the league. He throws a pretty ball, I grant you, but I don't see any consistent brilliance, not like you see from Allen, Mahomes, and Burrows, even Stafford. I think people expect great passing from Lamar, since he's such a good runner and throws a pretty ball, and they see what they expect to see, not necessarily what is there. 

 

Flame away!

The man threw for over 4100 yards last season while flirting with the best passer rating in league history. 

[RochesterLifer]

14 minutes ago, newcam2012 said:

STOP!!! Allen is not approaching Lamar as a runner. Not even close. Lamar is quick, elusive, and a home run threat. Allen is more of a plodder and powerful runner. Lamar is far more dangerous with his legs and it's not even close. 

 

Contrastingly, Allen is a superior thrower than Lamar. Not even close. Lamar has improved to be a sufficient thrower but he will never be a Josh Allen. 

 

Both QBs are elite and hopefully get to hoist Lombardi Trophies. 

I agree with you that Lamar is a superior runner. He is electric. But, calling Allen “more of a plodder” is simply ridiculous. Josh definitely doesn’t have Lamar’s quickness. However, his open field speed destroys defenses when he takes off.

[appoo]

1 minute ago, FranchiseSavior said:

The man threw for over 4100 yards last season while flirting with the best passer rating in league history. 

I think Lamar and Allen (in that order) have seperated themselves as the two most complete QBs in the League, and both are elite inside and outside the pocket.  

 

Every fall we gotta get through "Lamar Jackson isn't a great passer" and I have no idea what this man has to do to upend that incorrect claim

[SCBills]

Just now, appoo said:

I think Lamar and Allen (in that order) have seperated themselves as the two most complete QBs in the League, and both are elite inside and outside the pocket.  

 

Every fall we gotta get through "Lamar Jackson isn't a great passer" and I have no idea what this man has to do to upend that incorrect claim

People will point to the huge windows he throws into downfield, but that’s also due to him (and Henry). 

[boyst]

6 minutes ago, FranchiseSavior said:

The Ravens as a team ran for 176 yards in the second game. No it wasn't quite the 271 they ran for in the 1st game but they still ran the ball well.  I dint think it was a fluke I think the Ravens run game is a bad matchup for most teams in the league.  Most teams in the league construct their roster to stop teams from beating them through the air.  The Ravens are in of a few teams that want to run the ball.  Im not going to go the route and insult you but I dont think your fluke claim has much merit.  Ironically there are some Bills fans on this site who feel the same way. 

Ravens ran for 187 yards per game. so, 271 is, as i said.... a fluke.

 

113 yards/game for Henry.

53 for Jackson

 

so, reiterate...199 for henry was a fluke.

 

in the regular season where he did not fnish as the best player in the league he did 54 on the ground and 39 in the post season where he turned the ball over twice.

 

in the playoff game henry got 84, which didn't matter because lamar choked and lost the team the game.

[YattaOkasan]

9 minutes ago, appoo said:

https://nextgenstats.nfl.com/stats/receiving#average-cushion

 

 

 

Yards of separation is what you want.  Shakir and Samuel are good for Buff (Kincaid too), but the rest of the WR were bad (coleman was worst in this database).  Likely is super high and Andrew is just a tic above Kincaid.  Flowers and Batemen are way above other Bills WR though.  Mark andrews is the lowest for BAL at 3.6 (big gap for us between Kincaid at 3.5 and the 3 low ones; Hollins, Cooper, Coleman)

Edited Thursday at 08:39 PM by YattaOkasan

[appoo]

Just now, YattaOkasan said:

Yards of separation is what you want.  Shakir and Samuel are good for Buff (Kincaid too), but the rest of the WR were bad (coleman was worst in this database).  Likely is super high and Andrew is just a tic above Kincaid.  Flowers and Batemen are way above other Bills WR though.  Mark andrews is the lowest at 3.6

Basically they're good, but I don;t think you can use them to say Lamar isn't as good as his advanced metrics say. Hell is basic metrics.  % on Target doesn't care how open someone is

3 minutes ago, SCBills said:

People will point to the huge windows he throws into downfield, but that’s also due to him (and Henry). 

But even then we've SEEN him throw into tight windows!

[boyst]

38 minutes ago, appoo said:

https://www.pro-football-reference.com/years/2024/passing_advanced.htm

 

On Target %

3) Joe Burrow

9) Lamar Jackson

15) Patrick Mahomes

22) Josh Allen

 

Bad Throw % (higher rank is good)

4) Joe Burrow

16) Lamar Jackson

18) Patrick Mahomes

31) Josh Allen

 

Avg Depth of Target

8 - Lamar Jackson

13) Josh Allen

27) Joe Burrow

34) Patrick Mahomes

 

Completed Air Yards per Cmp

7) Lamar Jackson

17) Joe Burrow

19) Josh Allen

35) Patrick Mahomes

 

https://sumersports.com/players/quarterback/

 

Pass EPA

1) Lamar Jackson

3) Josh Allen

5) Joe Burrow

8 - Patrick Mahomes

 

Success Rate

4) Lamar Jackson

5) Joe Burrow

6) Josh Allen

9) Patrick Mahomes

 

There's a very easy arguement to be made - both metrics and eye test - that Lamar Jackson is the best passer alive

 

Like do you know what kind of unicorn you have to be to both highly ranked in depth of target AND % accurate balls?

if a quarterback was graded like a lineman or any other position than mistakes shoudl count. time and time again lamar chokes.

 

he's got better, sure but the offense is catered to him and he has had the benefit of great talent all around him.

 

the eye test also shows the truth. he doesn't have good field vision, especially early he woudl tuck and run instead of read the play and execute the reads.

 

the eye test doesn't pass the smell test. he's elite, a great football player and possibly one of the best ever but he is not one of the best qb's ever. he's only among the best in the league right now. but so is burrow, allen, hurts, and a few others.

[appoo]

3 minutes ago, YattaOkasan said:

Yards of separation is what you want.  Shakir and Samuel are good for Buff (Kincaid too), but the rest of the WR were bad (coleman was worst in this database).  Likely is super high and Andrew is just a tic above Kincaid.  Flowers and Batemen are way above other Bills WR though.  Mark andrews is the lowest for BAL at 3.6 (big gap for us between Kincaid at 3.5 and the 3 low ones; Hollins, Cooper, Coleman)

Coleman isn't that kind of guy anyways. He wins with physicality, and that's actually probably a more reliable, more durable way to be good as a WR in the NFL in the long run. 

[YattaOkasan]

2 minutes ago, appoo said:

Basically they're good, but I don;t think you can use them to say Lamar isn't as good as his advanced metrics say. Hell is basic metrics.  % on Target doesn't care how open someone is

Yeah not disagreeing with you per se.  Just pointing to a different stat.  I would say they are more open on average but as poster above said thats because of what Lamar and Henry do.  Also I agree on your point about on target %.  Fun thing for both teams is they really rely on game script it feels like and thats really the story of the two different games.  One team got behind early and couldnt get dig their way out by the end of the game.  

Edited Thursday at 08:42 PM by YattaOkasan

[TFBillsfan]

Is this a game week thread or a pissing match between who’s the better QB? 

[appoo]

1 minute ago, boyst said:

if a quarterback was graded like a lineman or any other position than mistakes shoudl count. time and time again lamar chokes.

 

he's got better, sure but the offense is catered to him and he has had the benefit of great talent all around him.

 

the eye test also shows the truth. he doesn't have good field vision, especially early he woudl tuck and run instead of read the play and execute the reads.

 

the eye test doesn't pass the smell test. he's elite, a great football player and possibly one of the best ever but he is not one of the best qb's ever. he's only among the best in the league right now. but so is burrow, allen, hurts, and a few others.

Could not disagree more. Lamar is a pantheon level QB, along with Mahomes, Burrow and Allen. The only ones you can say that about in their prime in the league. Rodgers is the other one still active. I don't believe Stafford or Hurts rise to that level

[YattaOkasan]

Just now, appoo said:

Coleman isn't that kind of guy anyways. He wins with physicality, and that's actually probably a more reliable, more durable way to be good as a WR in the NFL in the long run. 

Maybe.  Im not sure.  Lots of WR have faded very quickly with that style.  Separation is often key.  Many ways to get that besides being twitchy.  If you can get separation from your technique you can have a longer career than being twitchy or a jump ball maven  

[Mark Vader]

18 hours ago, YattaOkasan said:

That’s my fault. I was yelling CB! And I should have yelled “like a good neighbor…”

And then we'd end up getting Meghan Trainor.

[appoo]

1 minute ago, TFBillsfan said:

Is this a game week thread or a pissing match between who’s the better QB? 

Yes? I mean the game is between the Buffalo Bills vs Balitmore Ravens. 

 

Dudes will spend 4 hours in a bar naming random WRs from the 90s and 00s, so certainly spending some oxygen on Allen and Jackson is valid here

1 minute ago, YattaOkasan said:

Maybe.  Im not sure.  Lots of WR have faded very quickly with that style.  Separation is often key.  Many ways to get that besides being twitchy.  If you can get separation from your technique you can have a longer career than being twitchy or a jump ball maven  

Just feels like fast twitch fades a lot faster. TO comes to mind as someone who could open pretty late in his career because he knew how to use his power to his advantage, without being a burner. 

1 minute ago, Mark Vader said:

And then we'd end up getting Meghan Trainor.

That's half of Megan Trainor. She no longer has that base. Hope nobody shamed her into that

[Blank Stare]

3 minutes ago, Mark Vader said:

And then we'd end up getting Meghan Trainor.

That State Farm commercial with her and Mahomes is insufferable. I hate it. 

[YattaOkasan]

5 minutes ago, appoo said:

Yes? I mean the game is between the Buffalo Bills vs Balitmore Ravens. 

 

Dudes will spend 4 hours in a bar naming random WRs from the 90s and 00s, so certainly spending some oxygen on Allen and Jackson is valid here

Just feels like fast twitch fades a lot faster. TO comes to mind as someone who could open pretty late in his career because he knew how to use his power to his advantage, without being a burner. 

That's half of Megan Trainor. She no longer has that base. Hope nobody shamed her into that

Agree twitch can go. TO and rice and many others were great technicians and got separation based on being deceptive on their route.  You can also use physicality to get separation but Coleman hasn’t quite learned that yet. 

[Dillenger4]

2 hours ago, FranchiseSavior said:

Lamar and Josh are in the same boat they're both trying to win their 1st Lombardi.  

LOL  you can go as far as saying they are both human and play football. That's as far as that goes. Not even close buddy. Lame Mar hasn't even made the AFCCG. Josh has twice. I get it though - they both do need a SB victory. At least Josh will get his.