The Frankish Reich Posted Monday at 04:18 PM Author Posted Monday at 04:18 PM Read the Fifth Amendment. Show me where it distinguishes between citizens and aliens.
Steve O Posted Monday at 05:01 PM Posted Monday at 05:01 PM 38 minutes ago, The Frankish Reich said: Read the Fifth Amendment. Show me where it distinguishes between citizens and aliens. Article IV, section 4 states "The United States shall guarantee to every State in this Union a Republican Form of Government, and shall protect each of them against Invasion;..." Invading the country, then asking for due process under its constitution is like stealing an item from a store, then trying to hold the manufacturer responsible for the warranty.
nedboy7 Posted Monday at 05:03 PM Posted Monday at 05:03 PM 44 minutes ago, Steve O said: Where in the constitution are these rights of non-citizens addressed? The only statement I can find that addresses non citizens is in Article III clause 2 section 2 "...cases between U.S. citizens and foreign states and their citizens, come under federal jurisdiction. The trials will be in the state where the crime was committed." Its in the wording. But whatever. Do you believe that any non-citizen can be treated however the current regime feels is appropriate or do all humans have some basic rights in your view. I am not a liberal nor do I think you should let random immigrants roam the country for 7 years before their trial. 1
Homelander Posted Monday at 05:03 PM Posted Monday at 05:03 PM Imagine that - the Trump regime isn’t about enforcing laws it’s about weaponizing fear. They're using smoke-and-mirrors tactics, targeting even legal immigrants and citizens, not because it's legal, but because it sends a chilling message. This isn't policy - it's a full-blown psyop designed to terrorize communities and consolidate power. When you can rule by fear, why bother with the Constitution? 1
The Frankish Reich Posted Monday at 05:21 PM Author Posted Monday at 05:21 PM 18 minutes ago, Steve O said: Invading the country So if the president calls it an invasion, that's it? The courts disagree. Trump's own intelligence report disagrees. Use of a metaphor ("we are being invaded!") does not negate due process.
leh-nerd skin-erd Posted 4 hours ago Posted 4 hours ago 3 hours ago, BillsFanNC said: There’s the emotional side of an argument, and the legal side of an argument. Considered from the big picture perspective, the vast majority of people would tend to support due process and a fair and just legal process from start to finish. Of course, we know when humans and personalities get involved, fair and just are subjective terms. OJ Simpson comes to mind. On the other hand, on a local level, when the system fails an individual or community, the lofty notion of due process becomes a bit more complicated. The takeover of the apartment complex in Colorado comes to mind. In that case, the system—the judicial system, law enforcement, ICE, etc, fails the tax paying citizen in spectacular fashion. Who could blame those people for being incredibly grateful for the removal and deportation of victimizers absent the long, laborious legal system that allowed the activity to flourish to begin with? Put another way…show me the federal judge or defense attorney supporting crime and violence in his/her neighborhood and not using every tool or trick in the tool box to protect his/her family and I’ll show you an exceptionally rare person. 2
BillsFanNC Posted 3 hours ago Posted 3 hours ago 22 minutes ago, leh-nerd skin-erd said: There’s the emotional side of an argument, and the legal side of an argument. Considered from the big picture perspective, the vast majority of people would tend to support due process and a fair and just legal process from start to finish. Of course, we know when humans and personalities get involved, fair and just are subjective terms. OJ Simpson comes to mind. On the other hand, on a local level, when the system fails an individual or community, the lofty notion of due process becomes a bit more complicated. The takeover of the apartment complex in Colorado comes to mind. In that case, the system—the judicial system, law enforcement, ICE, etc, fails the tax paying citizen in spectacular fashion. Who could blame those people for being incredibly grateful for the removal and deportation of victimizers absent the long, laborious legal system that allowed the activity to flourish to begin with? Put another way…show me the federal judge or defense attorney supporting crime and violence in his/her neighborhood and not using every tool or trick in the tool box to protect his/her family and I’ll show you an exceptionally rare person. Which is why we should start housing all the misunderstood Maryland fathers awaiting due process in Chevy Chase, MD. I'd wager most of the local due process screamers at the country club will demand those fathers wait out their due process machinations elsewhere. 1
leh-nerd skin-erd Posted 3 hours ago Posted 3 hours ago 27 minutes ago, BillsFanNC said: Which is why we should start housing all the misunderstood Maryland fathers awaiting due process in Chevy Chase, MD. I'd wager most of the local due process screamers at the country club will demand those fathers wait out their due process machinations elsewhere. Great point—that would be Trumpian indeed.
Niagara Bill Posted 3 hours ago Posted 3 hours ago Is not the debate simple. 1. Biden admin and others before him allowed illegal migrants at unimaginable numbers, to enter the US without following the legal NORMAL requirements. Yes, there are laws for exceptions but it was NEVER contemplated to deal with such huge numbers. It is easy to see why the word invasion could be a term used. 2. Did citizens in some cities break the spirit if immigration laws by creating sanctuary for people that were outside the legal status. If those numbers were manageable there would not be such a reaction. 3. Tax payers dollars were spent on illegals, and they were allowed and encouraged to work, outside the law. As a foreigner to the US, I from time to time entered the US for business, was never allowed to actually work I could attend meetings which involved my business, but could never perform a task. Example, if a person working for my business in Cape Garardeau was to be terminated for cause or no cause, I could not perform that task and technically couldn't order it. I was legal. So how did millions of other illegals work, get services, even pay taxes. I could never have been allowed. I would have been deported and banned. 4. So, in correcting many years abuse allowed by many levels of law enforcement, politicians and citizens a few mistakes have been made, many fewer than has been allowed for many years. Obviously there is no effort to fix those mistakes, there should be some quick process to review cases. But for every one mistake, there are thousands of correct decisions. Those being forced out, hand them the paper work to apply. Our countries need and want the good ones, but not the bad ones.
Recommended Posts