Wide Receiver Train Full Speed Ahead- CHOO CHOO!

[hondo in seattle]

1 hour ago, Bill from NYC said:

McDermott is a defensive minded coach. I don't think that Beane had the authority to pick an wide receiver in the first round without the approval/consent of McDermott. I do believe that Beane has the power to make trades in order to get players that McDermott and the staff want, but I do not think that he has the final say.

 

So, we disagree but I appreciate the dialogue.

 

Yeah, Bill, we disagree because I do believe Beane has the final say but neither one of us is in a position to prove our case.  At least, I'm not.  It would be cool, though, if we could embed ourselves into OBD a week before the draft, sit in all the meetings, and hang out in the war room when the picks are made.  Maybe when I win the lottery, I'll buy a big enough stake in the Bills that Terry allows us both inside the building.  

[HaldimandBills]

2 hours ago, finn said:

To quote Ripley from the second Aliens movie, "Did the IQs just drop sharply while I was away?" I didn't say or suggest Beane should ignore the defense and prioritize the offense. Good lord. 

 

Re-read my posts. I'll wait. (I suggest looking up "Straw-man fallacy" while you're at it.)

I came in way too hot and obnoxious and I apologize. 

 

I just don't see a world where the Bills could do it all this off season and I firmly believe the correct choice was loading up the defense. 

 

Bills had two options.

 

Bills trade away most of their premium draft capital to land the # 1 receiver you want at the expense of any defensive depth. 

 

or 

 

Bills do what they did and finally address defense early with multiple picks to fix that side of the ball which has been pathetically underwhelming. 

 

Bills couldn't do both this off season. 

 

 

Edited 13 hours ago by HaldimandBills

[BADOLBILZ]

8 hours ago, Doc Brown said:

I thought I was alone on this take.  It was one of the most botched sequences I've seen and was even worse than anything 13 seconds related imo.  The standard counter was well he would've completed it to Shakir in the end zone if Jones didn't back Dawkins into him messing up the throw.  No.  The odds of him hitting that throw were extremely low even if he threw it untouched.  Also, even if they get the TD there isn't a sole on planet earth who thought the Bills hobbled defense led by AJ Klein was going to stop the Chiefs from winning that game with that much time left.  I didn't know whether to blame Brady for even giving Allen that option or Allen for getting greedy when you had a guy wide open running six yards across the field.  The situational awareness was just awful the way that game was playing out.  I think we were too banged up to beat Baltimore the next week but I would've at least liked to see them try.

 

 

2nd and 9 is worse than 13 seconds because the strategy they concocted during the timeout was inherently flawed.  They had nearly executed a SB XXV level game of keep-away and lost their minds in the clutch.  All the debate about kicking the ball short or into the end zone on 13 seconds only matters because they didn't execute in the final 13 seconds.   1 adequately defended defensive play and the game is over.  

 

The attempted longshot to Shakir after the two minute warning was damned if it worked AND if it didn't.   

 

Ultimately, we just aren't allowed to talk about failures that Josh Allen could be considered at all accountable for.   The media and fans alike are terrified to be critical of him.   And for multiple reasons.   They don't want him to want to leave.   And we've seen choking become habitual with the Kelly era Bills so we don't want to fracture his confidence.   The truth is we feel that he is more important to the organization/community than any SB win he could generate.   He's bigger than the brand.   I can't really think of a similar situation in sports.   Maybe Giannis with the Bucks?   I don't know.  

 

The problem with being that way is you can't get to the truth if you omit what you wish you hadn't seen.  

 

My contention is that the lack of playmakers in the passing game has set him up for failure.   He's personally thrown away his share of games with bad decisions late over his career.   If he has Travis Kelce putting up 100 yards per game in the playoffs every year maybe he still doesn't win them all or even 3 of 5 like Mahomes.   But we may never know what it would look like for him to have a guy who makes a difference playing with Allen in the playoffs.

[Steve Billieve]

9 minutes ago, BADOLBILZ said:

 

 

2nd and 9 is worse than 13 seconds because the strategy they concocted during the timeout was inherently flawed.  They had nearly executed a SB XXV level game of keep-away and lost their minds in the clutch.  All the debate about kicking the ball short or into the end zone on 13 seconds only matters because they didn't execute in the final 13 seconds.   1 adequately defended defensive play and the game is over.  

 

The attempted longshot to Shakir after the two minute warning was damned if it worked AND if it didn't.   

 

Ultimately, we just aren't allowed to talk about failures that Josh Allen could be considered at all accountable for.   The media and fans alike are terrified to be critical of him.   And for multiple reasons.   They don't want him to want to leave.   And we've seen choking become habitual with the Kelly era Bills so we don't want to fracture his confidence.   The truth is we feel that he is more important to the organization/community than any SB win he could generate.   He's bigger than the brand.   I can't really think of a similar situation in sports.   Maybe Giannis with the Bucks?   I don't know.  

 

The problem with being that way is you can't get to the truth if you omit what you wish you hadn't seen.  

 

My contention is that the lack of playmakers in the passing game has set him up for failure.   He's personally thrown away his share of games with bad decisions late over his career.   If he has Travis Kelce putting up 100 yards per game in the playoffs every year maybe he still doesn't win them all or even 3 of 5 like Mahomes.   But we may never know what it would look like for him to have a guy who makes a difference playing with Allen in the playoffs.

Good god man, is anything good in life?

[GunnerBill]

8 hours ago, Bill from NYC said:

OK but if the above is indeed true, shouldn't McDermott shoulder some of the blame for any draft blunders? I see post after post singling out Beane, and Beane  certainly doesn't appear to be making these picks in a vacuum. I have never worked in a place where more than one person had "final" say. Is it even possible? 

 

As I have previously stated, my opinion of McDermott as a coach has improved. That said, most of our early draft picks look to have his signature on it, if trading away Mahomes to the Chiefs and selecting a first round corner (before the arrival of Beane) is to be used as evidence, or at the very least suspicion of this.

 

Beane does have final say over the draft. You should watch his pre draft presser this year. He explained their process very clearly from building the board the board to the involvement of the coaches to the final decision. It was almost exactly how it was described to me by someone who used to work for the Bills. 

 

McDermott doesn't make draft picks or demand certain players. Your suspicion that defense = McDermott is wrong I am afraid. Where however he does deserve some blame is on a miss like Kaiir Elam. Because for the guys near the top of the Bills board the coaches have watched those guys and have given at least some level of reassurance they can be fitted into the scheme. With Elam I never thought that was likely and it never worked. That is the role the coaches play - after the evaluation but before the final board is set - do these guys fit our scheme. Where they have clunky scheme fits there is an element of McDermott and his staff sharing the blame. Where it is just bad talent evaluation, that is Beane. The team building strategy is also Beane. Undervaluing wide receivers is him. He says it repeatedly. He believes Quarterback, then trenches. It is the Carolina model he grew up with. Quarterback and then defensive front 7 was very much the way the Panthers drafted. They also took three round one running backs while Beane was there... luckily he hasn't done that yet.

[Doc Brown]

3 hours ago, BADOLBILZ said:

 

 

2nd and 9 is worse than 13 seconds because the strategy they concocted during the timeout was inherently flawed.  They had nearly executed a SB XXV level game of keep-away and lost their minds in the clutch.  All the debate about kicking the ball short or into the end zone on 13 seconds only matters because they didn't execute in the final 13 seconds.   1 adequately defended defensive play and the game is over.  

 

The attempted longshot to Shakir after the two minute warning was damned if it worked AND if it didn't.   

 

Ultimately, we just aren't allowed to talk about failures that Josh Allen could be considered at all accountable for.   The media and fans alike are terrified to be critical of him.   And for multiple reasons.   They don't want him to want to leave.   And we've seen choking become habitual with the Kelly era Bills so we don't want to fracture his confidence.   The truth is we feel that he is more important to the organization/community than any SB win he could generate.   He's bigger than the brand.   I can't really think of a similar situation in sports.   Maybe Giannis with the Bucks?   I don't know.  

 

The problem with being that way is you can't get to the truth if you omit what you wish you hadn't seen.  

 

My contention is that the lack of playmakers in the passing game has set him up for failure.   He's personally thrown away his share of games with bad decisions late over his career.   If he has Travis Kelce putting up 100 yards per game in the playoffs every year maybe he still doesn't win them all or even 3 of 5 like Mahomes.   But we may never know what it would look like for him to have a guy who makes a difference playing with Allen in the playoffs.

It would be nice for the Bills to build a strong enough team where a B+ game by Allen gets them past the Chiefs.  I think you can address it by re imagining your defense with some new players especially on the d-line and a minor tweak in philosophy which is why I think McDermott brought in some outside guys to his defensive staff.  I agree about the lack of play makers and I doubt Palmer or Moore move the needle.  However, I didn't think Mack Hollins and James Cook would step up as big as they did in the AFC Championship game last year so who knows.  I'd sacrifice TJ Williams and Chase Lundt if it meant getting DK Metcalf but I digress.

 

As far as criticism of Allen goes, if you're the highest paid player in the league you should be scrutinized as long as its fair.  I couldn't care less about the fragility of the fan base. Regardless of how our defense played he still had the ball down three with a chance to win the game.  The offense didn't come through either time.  Allen's also 0-5 in overtime when the offense has had the ball needing a TD to win.  There's room for growth.

 

 

[Bill from NYC]

10 hours ago, Solomon Grundy said:

For years the Bills have been trying to outscore the Chiefs in an effort to beat them. They even had the rules changed. I believe finally the Bills concluded that in order to beat them, they have to stop them. I believe they saw the success that the Eagles and Bucs had against the Chiefs and decided to go that route. 

Sounds like a reasonable theory.

[GunnerBill]

48 minutes ago, Doc Brown said:

It would be nice for the Bills to build a strong enough team where a B+ game by Allen gets them past the Chiefs.  I think you can address it by re imagining your defense with some new players especially on the d-line and a minor tweak in philosophy which is why I think McDermott brought in some outside guys to his defensive staff.  I agree about the lack of play makers and I doubt Palmer or Moore move the needle.  However, I didn't think Mack Hollins and James Cook would step up as big as they did in the AFC Championship game last year so who knows.  I'd sacrifice TJ Williams and Chase Lundt if it meant getting DK Metcalf but I digress.

 

As far as criticism of Allen goes, if you're the highest paid player in the league you should be scrutinized as long as its fair.  I couldn't care less about the fragility of the fan base. Regardless of how our defense played he still had the ball down three with a chance to win the game.  The offense didn't come through either time.  Allen's also 0-5 in overtime when the offense has had the ball needing a TD to win.  There's room for growth.

 

 

 

TJ Sanders..... but yes to everything else.

[SoTier]

13 hours ago, Bill from NYC said:

McDermott is a defensive minded coach. I don't think that Beane had the authority to pick a wide receiver in the first round without the approval/consent of McDermott. I do believe that Beane has the power to make trades in order to get players that McDermott and the staff want, but I do not think that he has the final say.

 

So, we disagree but I appreciate the dialogue.

 

I think that you see the relationship between Beane and McDermott as much more adversarial than it probably is.  Beane and McDermott are friends and their friendship goes back to their early days together at Carolina.  I also think their philosophies on team building are very similar, too.  I think that the use of "McBeane" by some posters isn't far off the mark in describing how the Bills select talent.  They collaborate not compete.