Athletic article - comments from NFL people on AFC draft classes

[oldmanfan]

3 minutes ago, Alphadawg7 said:

 

Bahahaha...so lets recap your hilariously absurd stance of KC has done more for Mahomes than Bills have for Allen rant:

1. Chiefs over the past 5 years are geniuses and done more for Mahomes by investing 4 picks in the first 2 rounds over the past 5 seasons in Clydes Edward Helaire, Skyy Moore, Rashee Rice and Xavier Worthy.  And one of those was a RB in the FIRST ROUND.  
2. Bills are losers and done way less for Allen by ALSO investing 4 picks in the first 2 rounds over the past 5 seasons in Diggs, Cook, Kincaid, and Coleman.  

And you make this claim because Kincaid is "not a WR"?  Your point is so flawed and stupid that I cannot even believe you're still trying to argue it.  I mean I do because its you, and its what you do when you go down one of these rants based solely on your biased agenda than facts, but even still I am still a bit surprised you're still trying.  

 

The funniest part is that you are trying to do so by disqualifying Kincaid as a weapon because he is a TE when in fact the best weapon on the other team in question is literally a TE.  Especially when Kincaid was drafted to literally be a receiving weapon and as they put it, "Our Kelce".  

 

Tell you what...go find any one person over the age of 3 years old who would take CEH, Moore, Rice, and Worthy over Diggs, Cook, Kincaid, and Coleman.  

It’s amusing at some point.  Yes they invested more high round picks on WRs.  And yes most of them have not delivered.

[FireChans]

14 minutes ago, Alphadawg7 said:

 

Bahahaha...so lets recap your hilariously absurd stance of KC has done more for Mahomes than Bills have for Allen rant:

1. Chiefs over the past 5 years are geniuses and done more for Mahomes by investing 4 picks in the first 2 rounds over the past 5 seasons in Clydes Edward Helaire, Skyy Moore, Rashee Rice and Xavier Worthy.  And one of those was a RB in the FIRST ROUND.  
2. Bills are losers and done way less for Allen by ALSO investing 4 picks in the first 2 rounds over the past 5 seasons in Diggs, Cook, Kincaid, and Coleman.  

And you make this claim because Kincaid is "not a WR"?  Your point is so flawed and stupid that I cannot even believe you're still trying to argue it.  I mean I do because its you, and its what you do when you go down one of these rants based solely on your biased agenda than facts, but even still I am still a bit surprised you're still trying.  

 

The funniest part is that you are trying to do so by disqualifying Kincaid as a weapon because he is a TE when in fact the best weapon on the other team in question is literally a TE.  Especially when Kincaid was drafted to literally be a receiving weapon and as they put it, "Our Kelce".  

 

Tell you what...go find any one person over the age of 3 years old who would take CEH, Moore, Rice, and Worthy over Diggs, Cook, Kincaid, and Coleman.  

Hey @Alphadawg7 the sky isn’t green dude, it’s blue. You’re wrong!

 

I win!

Edited May 7 by FireChans

[FireChans]

17 minutes ago, oldmanfan said:

It’s amusing at some point.  Yes they invested more high round picks on WRs.  And yes most of them have not delivered.

@Alphadawg7 can’t admit the bolded. He has to do the whole “argue a different point than what was made, then declare victory,” strategy.

 

Unfortunately for him, I was trolling TBD when he was a twinkle in his father’s eye. He can’t fool me.

Edited May 7 by FireChans

[Alphadawg7]

45 minutes ago, FireChans said:

@Alphadawg7 can’t admit the bolded. He has to do the whole “argue a different point than what was made, then declare victory,” strategy.

 

Unfortunately for him, I was trolling TBD when he was a twinkle in his father’s eye. He can’t fool me.

Except they haven’t 

53 minutes ago, FireChans said:

Hey @Alphadawg7 the sky isn’t green dude, it’s blue. You’re wrong!

 

I win!

There it is…the good ole reliable @FireChanswhite flag of gibberish you throw up every time you run out of ways to spin nonsense.  Lol, like clock work

[PBF81]

1 hour ago, oldmanfan said:

I think we all love Josh, but his improvement will come when he uses the entire set of weapons at his disposal and does do all over the field as you suggest.  And if Coleman can make big plays out of bubble screens, fine by me.  Bring the D up closer to the line then let Samuel or Shakir get behind them.  I think we have more weapons than many are giving credit for.

 

Diggs to me fell victim to two things:  1.  Brady wanting to diversify the offense more and 2. while I have no proof,  I suspect Josh was sick of dealing with him and let McD and Beane know.

 

Allen does need to hone that part of his game, but the point is that that's not why they drafted him or have said how they wanted to use him.  

 

It doesn't take Allen to run an offense like that, in fact, many lesser talented QBs run it better than he does.  

 

My biggest curiosity is whether or not this staff knows how to put that together.  We can talk about it all we want, back n forth, but the proof in the pudding will be come the season.  I have my very strong doubts though based upon what we've seen on the past and Brady's games.

 

As to that second paragraph, unfortunately we have no idea, all we know is what they tell is, and they've led to is before.   It's more of less not however.  Also, Beane know that there was a risk when he signed Diggs, everyone did.  Same with Von Miller.  High risk signings.  

 

 

 

[FireChans]

24 minutes ago, Alphadawg7 said:

Except they haven’t

Yes they have. They have spent more on WR’s. That is what I said. You keep changing it to “weapons” (which I never said) so you can include Kincaid lmao.

 

24 minutes ago, Alphadawg7 said:

There it is…the good ole reliable @FireChanswhite flag of gibberish you throw up every time you run out of ways to spin nonsense.  Lol, like clock work

I thought we were making up our own arguments for the other person then knocking them down. Right? 

 

Water is wet! You’re wrong. 
 

Don’t get upset that I took your game and went pro.

Edited May 7 by FireChans

[Alphadawg7]

14 minutes ago, FireChans said:

Yes they have. They have spent more on WR’s. That is what I said. You keep changing it to “weapons” (which I never said) so you can include Kincaid lmao.

 

I thought we were making up our own arguments for the other person then knocking them down. Right? 

 

Water is wet! You’re wrong. 
 

Don’t get upset that I took your game and went pro.

Lmao…it’s comical you’re still trying.  
 

Whats Kincaid role?  If you say anything other than a receiver then you should suspend yourself from posting until training camp.  
 

And the fact you won’t acknowledge that to spin a 100% false picture that KC had used more draft capital on “receivers” who feature a literal TE as their factual best “receiver” is comical.

 

But this is you.  It’s what will always keep you from actually being a good poster.  You want to argue a technicality to push a false agenda and then act a fool about it on top of that.  You want to sell “Beane doesn’t do enough” and then cherry pick things to paint a false picture.  
 

You know damn well Kincaid is a receiver for us, as much as Kelce is for KC and maybe more because Kelce does other non-receiving TE things better.  
 

On the flip side, you make dunking on you easy with these absurd takes like LeBron on 8 foot rims lol

 

 

Edited May 7 by Alphadawg7

[oldmanfan]

1 hour ago, PBF81 said:

 

Allen does need to hone that part of his game, but the point is that that's not why they drafted him or have said how they wanted to use him.  

 

It doesn't take Allen to run an offense like that, in fact, many lesser talented QBs run it better than he does.  

 

My biggest curiosity is whether or not this staff knows how to put that together.  We can talk about it all we want, back n forth, but the proof in the pudding will be come the season.  I have my very strong doubts though based upon what we've seen on the past and Brady's games.

 

As to that second paragraph, unfortunately we have no idea, all we know is what they tell is, and they've led to is before.   It's more of less not however.  Also, Beane know that there was a risk when he signed Diggs, everyone did.  Same with Von Miller.  High risk signings.  

 

 

 

 

2 hours ago, FireChans said:

@Alphadawg7 can’t admit the bolded. He has to do the whole “argue a different point than what was made, then declare victory,” strategy.

 

Unfortunately for him, I was trolling TBD when he was a twinkle in his father’s eye. He can’t fool me.

I’’m glad you’re proud to be a troll.  Everyone aspires to that, i know.

[FireChans]

9 hours ago, Alphadawg7 said:

Lmao…it’s comical you’re still trying.  
 

Whats Kincaid role?  If you say anything other than a receiver then you should suspend yourself from posting until training camp.  
 

And the fact you won’t acknowledge that to spin a 100% false picture that KC had used more draft capital on “receivers” who feature a literal TE as their factual best “receiver” is comical.

 

But this is you.  It’s what will always keep you from actually being a good poster.  You want to argue a technicality to push a false agenda and then act a fool about it on top of that.  You want to sell “Beane doesn’t do enough” and then cherry pick things to paint a false picture.  
 

You know damn well Kincaid is a receiver for us, as much as Kelce is for KC and maybe more because Kelce does other non-receiving TE things better.  
 

On the flip side, you make dunking on you easy with these absurd takes like LeBron on 8 foot rims lol

 

 

https://www.espn.com/nfl/player/_/id/4385690/dalton-kincaid
 

DALTONKINCAID

Bills

#86

TE

 

https://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/K/KincDa00.htm
 

Dalton Kincaid

Position: TE

 

What position does he play? WR or TE?

 

You know what? Find me a source that says Dalton Kincaid plays WR and not TE. I’ll wait.

 

The whole reason your point is so silly is because acquiring WR’s isn’t just about putting talent around Josh, it’s about recognizing that the WR market has completely exploded and these guys are going to get harder and harder to pay. It’s about recognizing the league value as a position.

 

Kincaid isn’t going to get paid like a WR. Just like Kelce hasn’t. Because they are TE’s. Because they are “weapons.” Because they AREN’T WR’s, which is why I didn’t ***** mention them when talking about WR’s. FFS, annoying AND wrong is a dangerous combo.

Edited May 7 by FireChans

[BobbyC81]

On 5/5/2024 at 9:29 AM, mannc said:

Don’t count on it, even if the Bills go 7-10.  With the level of chaos right now in Pegula-land, making wholesale changes in the Bills’ front office is far too heavy of a lift.  And whatever you might think of Beane’s roster management, he’s at least a professional executive who gives off an air of competence, unlike the clowns who occupied that office before him.

Buddy Nix is holding on Line 1.

[HaldimandBills]

1 hour ago, FireChans said:

https://www.espn.com/nfl/player/_/id/4385690/dalton-kincaid
 

DALTONKINCAID

Bills

#86

TE

 

https://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/K/KincDa00.htm
 

Dalton Kincaid

Position: TE

 

What position does he play? WR or TE?

 

You know what? Find me a source that says Dalton Kincaid plays WR and not TE. I’ll wait.

 

The whole reason your point is so silly is because acquiring WR’s isn’t just about putting talent around Josh, it’s about recognizing that the WR market has completely exploded and these guys are going to get harder and harder to pay. It’s about recognizing the league value as a position.

 

Kincaid isn’t going to get paid like a WR. Just like Kelce hasn’t. Because they are TE’s. Because they are “weapons.” Because they AREN’T WR’s, which is why I didn’t ***** mention them when talking about WR’s. FFS, annoying AND wrong is a dangerous combo.

 

He was drafted to be a receiver. He was taken because the Bills had no one with size who could beat zone in the middle of the field. Call Kincaid whatever you want but he was taken to be Josh Safety night and replace Cole Beasley. Beanes words. Not mine.

 

The Jets cracked the code on the Dorsey offense of putting their # 1 corner on Davis to lock him down and rolling safety coverage over Diggs. Isiah Mckenzie was useless in zone and Knox was avg. at best. 

 

Which is why I keep saying the Bills offense this year will be more dynamic than the previous seasons because it will be less predictable and more difficult to defend.

 

I do agree with you that id like another high receiver investment by Beane. I do think he drafted weapons in Cook and Kincaid that played closer to the line of scrimmage because the Bills didn't scare anybody outside Davis going deep and Diggs. Teams were rolling double high safety and spying Josh with a linebacker. At least with those two on the field it becomes much more difficult to do.

 

I am still convinced post June 1st the Bills will be making a trade and the receiver room isn't complete. Its telling that Beane has basically signed every reclamation  project at receiver this off season hoping one hits. I also imagine receiver, DL, and corner will be his 3 main areas of focus next off season. 

[FireChans]

3 minutes ago, HaldimandBills said:

 

He was drafted to be a receiver. He was taken because the Bills had no one with size who could beat zone in the middle of the field. Call Kincaid whatever you want but he was taken to be Josh Safety night and replace Cole Beasley. Beanes words. Not mine.

 

The Jets cracked the code on the Dorsey offense of putting their # 1 corner on Davis to lock him down and rolling safety coverage over Diggs. Isiah Mckenzie was useless in zone and Knox was avg. at best. 

 

Which is why I keep saying the Bills offense this year will be more dynamic than the previous seasons because it will be less predictable and more difficult to defend.

 

I do agree with you that id like another high receiver investment by Beane. I do think he drafted weapons in Cook and Kincaid that played closer to the line of scrimmage because the Bills didn't scare anybody outside Davis going deep and Diggs. Teams were rolling double high safety and spying Josh with a linebacker. At least with those two on the field it becomes much more difficult to do.

 

I am still convinced post June 1st the Bills will be making a trade and the receiver room isn't complete. Its telling that Beane has basically signed every reclamation  project at receiver this off season hoping one hits. I also imagine receiver, DL, and corner will be his 3 main areas of focus next off season. 

Of course he was drafted as a receiving threat. You don't take a TE in the first round to block (at least I hope they wouldn't).

 

He's not going to be paid as a WR, he will be paid as a TE. Which is a good thing.

 

The top 5 TE contracts in the NFL would be the 10th, 13th, 13th, 14th and 14th WR contracts TODAY. Those will all get bumped down a couple more places when JJ and Higgins and Chase get their long-term deals soon.

 

That kind of highlights part of the reason why I'd like to draft more of them. If they hit and are a Pro-Bowler, you are getting tremendous value compared to their open market value. That's why the Eagles drafted two more this year while having AJ Brown and Smith under contract. Because they are valuable and it's not a bad thing to have 3-4 of them (see Trent Sherfield in the playoffs).

[HaldimandBills]

23 minutes ago, FireChans said:

Of course he was drafted as a receiving threat. You don't take a TE in the first round to block (at least I hope they wouldn't).

 

He's not going to be paid as a WR, he will be paid as a TE. Which is a good thing.

 

The top 5 TE contracts in the NFL would be the 10th, 13th, 13th, 14th and 14th WR contracts TODAY. Those will all get bumped down a couple more places when JJ and Higgins and Chase get their long-term deals soon.

 

That kind of highlights part of the reason why I'd like to draft more of them. If they hit and are a Pro-Bowler, you are getting tremendous value compared to their open market value. That's why the Eagles drafted two more this year while having AJ Brown and Smith under contract. Because they are valuable and it's not a bad thing to have 3-4 of them (see Trent Sherfield in the playoffs).

 

I agree they need to draft more. Where I give Beane a slight pass this off season is with the salary cap. Every team has gone through this when their QB salary comes due and this is the Bills and Josh Allen's turn. 

 

I keep thinking back to that defense and how pathetic the front 7 was and how aged out our safeties were. We simply needed younger depth all over the roster who are less likely to be injured come playoff time. 

 

Next off season I think Beane has the cap space and draft picks to attack Receiver, DEnd, interior OL/DLand Corner. This off season was about staying afloat with depth pieces. Believe me the state of the Bills this off season had me initially pissed off. Now I see it as an investment as the Jets and Dolphins are about to enter serious cap hell with guys who are not named Josh Allen on their rosters.

 

Again I am of the belief Beane will add another receiver post June 1st. 

[DCofNC]

I think this exec thinks the same as the fans do.  It’s really in Josh to elevate the guys around him, can he carry the team?  We’ll see.  The one thing I think is good, we’re going a little different than the majority of the league in building a Patriots dynasty type team of being able to do everything, so you can’t key on one thing.  That’s really what’s made KC good, Pacheco can gash you and there’s no part of the field safe w Mahomes so, here’s to hoping we can do the same.

[Thurman#1]

On 5/6/2024 at 12:17 AM, PBF81 said:

 

The majority will figure it out, quite possibly this season.  

 

The question is what will Pegula do about it.  I'd guess nothing.  

 

 

 

 

The question is whether this happens. It's guesswork. Might happen, might not. 

 

Very possibly they can go deep as they're constructed. But a lot of the reason they dinked and dunked more is because that's what's available, not just to us but to all of the better passing offenses.

 

Mahomes had the lowest YPA of his career, by a very significant margin last year. He dinked and dunked too. And I hear he can throw a little bit hard himself.

 

Dinking and dunking becomes more necessary as defenses teams that like to go deep get defensed by using cover two more and more efficiently. 

 

 

Edited May 7 by Thurman#1

[Alphadawg7]

3 hours ago, FireChans said:

https://www.espn.com/nfl/player/_/id/4385690/dalton-kincaid
 

DALTONKINCAID

Bills

#86

TE

 

https://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/K/KincDa00.htm
 

Dalton Kincaid

Position: TE

 

What position does he play? WR or TE?

 

You know what? Find me a source that says Dalton Kincaid plays WR and not TE. I’ll wait.

 

The whole reason your point is so silly is because acquiring WR’s isn’t just about putting talent around Josh, it’s about recognizing that the WR market has completely exploded and these guys are going to get harder and harder to pay. It’s about recognizing the league value as a position.

 

Kincaid isn’t going to get paid like a WR. Just like Kelce hasn’t. Because they are TE’s. Because they are “weapons.” Because they AREN’T WR’s, which is why I didn’t ***** mention them when talking about WR’s. FFS, annoying AND wrong is a dangerous combo.

As usual, you dodged the actual QUESTION I asked you and you answered a DIFFERENT question to avoid having to face your own nonsense. 
 

So once again, what is Kincaid primary ROLE?  If you say anything other than a receiver for Josh then you’re either a liar or the dumbest poster on the board.  
 

So what’s your answer?

 

 

Edited May 7 by Alphadawg7

[FireChans]

1 hour ago, HaldimandBills said:

 

I agree they need to draft more. Where I give Beane a slight pass this off season is with the salary cap. Every team has gone through this when their QB salary comes due and this is the Bills and Josh Allen's turn. 

 

I keep thinking back to that defense and how pathetic the front 7 was and how aged out our safeties were. We simply needed younger depth all over the roster who are less likely to be injured come playoff time. 

 

Next off season I think Beane has the cap space and draft picks to attack Receiver, DEnd, interior OL/DLand Corner. This off season was about staying afloat with depth pieces. Believe me the state of the Bills this off season had me initially pissed off. Now I see it as an investment as the Jets and Dolphins are about to enter serious cap hell with guys who are not named Josh Allen on their rosters.

 

Again I am of the belief Beane will add another receiver post June 1st. 

I don’t disagree there’s a case by case basis with some of this stuff. And imo the most important thing is separating results from process. Because results can be fickle.

 

I can think throwing seconds and thirds at RB’s is generally poor strategy, but if you do it every once in a while and get a dynamic threat like Cook, that’s fine. 
 

If Coleman becomes Mike Evans 2.0 and Shakir becomes Diggs 2.0, then all the hubbub about process becomes irrelevant. 

 

My biggest belief in the NFL is that you can be right for the wrong reasons and wrong for the right reasons. It’s why I don’t kill Beane for the Von Miller deal. We needed an elite pass rusher, we just lost in an OT shout out to the preeminent dynasty of our time, our #2 WR just had one of the greatest games in playoff history. An elite EDGE player, who was yes, long in the tooth and an injury concern made a lot of sense. It didn’t work out and that sucks. 
 

I do think there are some prevailing strategies that Beane cannot or will not follow. And that goes beyond this off-season. 

1 minute ago, Alphadawg7 said:

As usual, you dodged the actual QUESTION I asked you and you answered a DIFFERENT question to avoid having to face your own nonsense. 
 

So once again, what is Kincaid primary ROLE?  If you say anything other than a receiver for Josh then you’re either a liar or the dumbest poster on the board.  
 

So what’s your answer?

He’s a receiving target that plays TE. He doesn’t play WR. And I specifically said WR, multiple times. So you lose, again. 

[Alphadawg7]

1 minute ago, FireChans said:

 

He’s a receiving target that plays TE. He doesn’t play WR. And I specifically said WR, multiple times. So you lose, again. 

And stop moving the goal post.  You’ve been whining about Beane not giving Josh enough weapons in terms of the WR issue all off season, during the draft, and since.  
 

No one is dumb enough to believe your whole rant is about WR contracts now and not about “Beane not doing enough for Josh”.  You spin nonsense more than politicians.

 

The depths you will go to try and salvage something you got smashed on is both hilarious and impressive at the same time.  You should consider politics though lol

[GoBills808]

4 minutes ago, Alphadawg7 said:

And stop moving the goal post.  You’ve been whining about Beane not giving Josh enough weapons in terms of the WR issue all off season, during the draft, and since.  
 

No one is dumb enough to believe your whole rant is about WR contracts now and not about “Beane not doing enough for Josh”.  You spin nonsense more than politicians.

 

The depths you will go to try and salvage something you got smashed on is both hilarious and impressive at the same time.  You should consider politics though lol

Not to get in the middle here but are you saying you're satisfied w how this FO has supported the offense and Allen in particular overall?

[FireChans]

20 hours ago, FireChans said:

The REALITY is this regime hadn’t drafted a WR in day 2 since Zay Jones 7 years ago. That’s ass backwards. 
 

This stuff is indefensible. It demonstrates a fundamental misunderstanding of positional value in the modern NFL. They are dinosaurs

 

4 minutes ago, Alphadawg7 said:

And stop moving the goal post.  You’ve been whining about Beane not giving Josh enough weapons in terms of the WR issue all off season, during the draft, and since.  
 

No one is dumb enough to believe your whole rant is about WR contracts now and not about “Beane not doing enough for Josh”.  You spin nonsense more than politicians.

 

The depths you will go to try and salvage something you got smashed on is both hilarious and impressive at the same time.  You should consider politics though lol

can you move the goal posts if you said exactly the same thing you said initially?

 

Tough scene. If you had only read the posts you responded to, it would’ve saved you so much time looking foolish lmao. What a waste.

 

Maybe next time I’ll do an @Alphadawg7 edit where I bold things so you can follow along better. Gotta appeal to the lowest common denominator of reading comprehension. 

3 minutes ago, GoBills808 said:

Not to get in the middle here but are you saying you're satisfied w how this FO has supported the offense and Allen in particular overall?

Who WOULDN’T be satisfied with a 2nd, two 3rds and a 4th at RB in 6 years?