Tommy Callahan Posted April 9 Share Posted April 9 Just now, The Frankish Reich said: But more to the point: why should we trust that Trump's latest "completely a matter for the states to decide" will be his position as President? What if Republicans take the Senate and keep the House, and send Trump a bill outlawing abortion nationally after 15 weeks? Would he sign it? He previously suggested he would. Dobbs. and don't forget it was a Highly funded DEM Pac that sued the 15-week state limit, that took the case to the supreme court. That ruled that abortion is not a federal issue, but a state issue. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phypon Posted April 9 Share Posted April 9 1 minute ago, The Frankish Reich said: But more to the point: why should we trust that Trump's latest "completely a matter for the states to decide" will be his position as President? What if Republicans take the Senate and keep the House, and send Trump a bill outlawing abortion nationally after 15 weeks? Would he sign it? He previously suggested he would. I see your point, and that goes with any politician and their stance/platform. I think if that were to happen there would be a lot of blowback and the next administration would use that and correct it (hopefully). Also, we're talking about a "what if" here. I mean, "what if" he does exactly what he says he will do? That is certainly a strong possibility as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Frankish Reich Posted April 9 Share Posted April 9 1 minute ago, Tommy Callahan said: Dobbs. and don't forget it was a Highly funded DEM Pac that sued the 15-week state limit, that took the case to the supreme court. That ruled that abortion is not a federal issue, but a state issue. Partially correct. They ruled that the right to have an abortion was not something deeply rooted in American history and tradition. In other words, it is not a substantive due process right. They didn't rule on whether the federal government may have some constitutional basis (the commerce clause, etc.) to regulate abortion, and they certainly didn't rule on whether things like medication abortion can be controlled by the federal government through statutory authority (the FDA's enabling statute, etc.) 2 minutes ago, phypon said: I see your point, and that goes with any politician and their stance/platform. I think if that were to happen there would be a lot of blowback and the next administration would use that and correct it (hopefully). Also, we're talking about a "what if" here. I mean, "what if" he does exactly what he says he will do? That is certainly a strong possibility as well. Well, yes. Look, strong 2nd Amendment advocates would be right to be suspicious of a Presidential candidate who campaigns on a platform that the states and federal government have no authority to restrict gun ownership, but who had previously expressed interest in federal legislation restricting that right. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phypon Posted April 9 Share Posted April 9 3 minutes ago, The Frankish Reich said: Partially correct. They ruled that the right to have an abortion was not something deeply rooted in American history and tradition. In other words, it is not a substantive due process right. They didn't rule on whether the federal government may have some constitutional basis (the commerce clause, etc.) to regulate abortion, and they certainly didn't rule on whether things like medication abortion can be controlled by the federal government through statutory authority (the FDA's enabling statute, etc.) Well, yes. Look, strong 2nd Amendment advocates would be right to be suspicious of a Presidential candidate who campaigns on a platform that the states and federal government have no authority to restrict gun ownership, but who had previously expressed interest in federal legislation restricting that right. Not sure why you are bringing up the 2A here. The 2A is written in the constitution. Abortion is not. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tommy Callahan Posted April 9 Share Posted April 9 Dobbs 3 minutes ago, The Frankish Reich said: Partially correct. They ruled that the right to have an abortion was not something deeply rooted in American history and tradition. In other words, it is not a substantive due process right. They didn't rule on whether the federal government may have some constitutional basis (the commerce clause, etc.) to regulate abortion, and they certainly didn't rule on whether things like medication abortion can be controlled by the federal government through statutory authority (the FDA's enabling statute, etc.) Well, yes. Look, strong 2nd Amendment advocates would be right to be suspicious of a Presidential candidate who campaigns on a platform that the states and federal government have no authority to restrict gun ownership, but who had previously expressed interest in federal legislation restricting that right. Thats as weak of a position as the 14th being used to claim its a federal issue. The second is spelled out in the constitution, Aborting a fetus isn't. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Frankish Reich Posted April 9 Share Posted April 9 30 minutes ago, Tommy Callahan said: Dobbs Thats as weak of a position as the 14th being used to claim its a federal issue. The second is spelled out in the constitution, Aborting a fetus isn't. Well, you either have constitutional authority to legislate or you don't. You see my basis for skepticism about Trump's latest position? Obviously as the campaign continues he'll be asked those questions, the ones like "if Congress presents you with legislation protecting the right to abortion through 15 weeks, will you sign it?" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
B-Man Posted April 9 Share Posted April 9 Trump promises abortion rights will be decided by states if re-elected, sidestepping national ban by Snejana Farberov Former President Donald Trump declined to endorse a national abortion ban Monday, instead saying that abortion laws should be left to the states. “My view is now that we have abortion where everyone wanted it from a legal standpoint, the states will determine by vote or legislation, or perhaps both. And whatever they decide must be the law of the land. In this case, the law of the state,” Trump said in a video message posted to his Truth Social page. He didn’t say after how many weeks of pregnancy he believes abortion should be banned. https://nypost.com/2024/04/08/us-news/trump-promises-abortion-rights-will-be-decided-by-states-if-re-elected-sidestepping-national-ban/ . 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Frankish Reich Posted April 9 Share Posted April 9 No, they're not Trump. But a lot of Republican Senators are on the record as supporting a 20-week federal abortion ban. And that includes Ted Cruz, supposedly a strict constitutionalist and constitutional lawyer. So he apparently believes there is some federal constitutional authority allowing Congress to legislate abortion bans. https://www.cruz.senate.gov/newsroom/press-releases/sens-cruz-graham-colleagues-introduce-20-week-abortion-ban By the way, this is, of course, Trump tacking toward the center after wrapping up the nomination early. I usually think that's a good thing, and it is a good thing here. But ... I thought that was happening in the 2016 general election as well, and then Trump went all, well, Trumpy once he was in office, firing his "my generals" and his Reince Priebuses etc. If he wins and sees his popularity slipping (he'll never have a majority), watch him try to shore up the base by once again moving right on abortion. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
B-Man Posted April 9 Share Posted April 9 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Frankish Reich Posted April 9 Share Posted April 9 (edited) 12 minutes ago, B-Man said: A rare case in which Big Mollie is correct. The one-sentence summary is simply not correct. Dobbs didn't purport to ban states from doing what their elected representatives or voters think is right. Larger picture: why did Trump's statement - otherwise clear about the federal government not getting involved - end with a comment about "but we've got to win elections?" That suggests a public opinion driven position, not a clear issue of constitutional law and the separation of state/federal powers. Hence ... skepticism. Edited April 9 by The Frankish Reich 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tommy Callahan Posted April 9 Share Posted April 9 1 hour ago, The Frankish Reich said: Obviously as the campaign continues he'll be asked those questions, the ones like "if Congress presents you with legislation protecting the right to abortion through 15 weeks, will you sign it?" Don't you love when journalist create the narrative like that. Kind of ironic question as the same sources cheered France making a 15 limit into law a few months ago. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SCBills Posted April 9 Share Posted April 9 Trump is correct on this. It’s also fascinating to live in Atlanta, a red/purple state with a heartbeat ban, yet it’s rarely a discussion state-wide. Just goes to show how values line up differently around the country. I’m from NY, and certainly realize that abortion is a bigger issue in the Northeast for whatever reason. But down south, we have extremely strict laws in state like Georgia, South Carolina and Florida.. but nobody really makes it a big issue and people keep moving to these states in droves. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
B-Man Posted April 10 Share Posted April 10 OF COURSE NOT, THEY SEE THE ISSUE AS THEIR LAST-HOPE DISTRACTION: Democrats Don’t Want You to Know How Moderate Trump’s Abortion Stance Is. “To the extent Trump adjusted at all, he moved to the middle. Biden has spent the last few decades moving to the extreme Left on abortion (and Israel, for that matter, although that’s much more recent). What does that tell us about the GOP and Democrat coalitions?” https://hotair.com/headlines/2024/04/10/democrats-dont-want-you-to-know-how-moderate-trumps-abortion-stance-is-n3786244 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tiberius Posted April 10 Share Posted April 10 1 hour ago, B-Man said: OF COURSE NOT, THEY SEE THE ISSUE AS THEIR LAST-HOPE DISTRACTION: Democrats Don’t Want You to Know How Moderate Trump’s Abortion Stance Is. “To the extent Trump adjusted at all, he moved to the middle. Biden has spent the last few decades moving to the extreme Left on abortion (and Israel, for that matter, although that’s much more recent). What does that tell us about the GOP and Democrat coalitions?” https://hotair.com/headlines/2024/04/10/democrats-dont-want-you-to-know-how-moderate-trumps-abortion-stance-is-n3786244 LOL!!! That's funny! Think Trump will win Arizona? Ya, me neither Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
B-Man Posted April 10 Share Posted April 10 20 minutes ago, Tiberius said: Someone answered without reading the article (again) From October 2023. Trump Stakes Out Middle Ground in Abortion Wars. “The abortion wars aren’t over, and the likely result won’t look much like what either camp is imagining today. Donald Trump understands this, as shown in his recent offer to bring both sides together for a compromise. Does anyone else? A few lefty pundits do, which is why you see New York Times columns reassuring readers that yes, Donald Trump is still rabidly anti-abortion. https://www.newsweek.com/theres-room-middle-ground-abortion-wars-opinion-1832165 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
daz28 Posted April 10 Share Posted April 10 Does anyone know if red states are saying that abortion is murder, or if they just break social mores? Caution, this is a trap. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pokebball Posted April 10 Share Posted April 10 11 minutes ago, daz28 said: Does anyone know if red states are saying that abortion is murder, or if they just break social mores? Caution, this is a trap. My red state doesn't, in fact,talk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillStime Posted April 10 Share Posted April 10 3 minutes ago, Pokebball said: My red state doesn't, in fact,talk Oh. I guess just the blue parts, do. 3 hours ago, Pokebball said: The area of my state hit the worse was uneducated democrats. It wasn't party affiliation. It wasn't education. It was location / geographic (the further you were from access to healthcare, the worse it was). lmao Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pokebball Posted April 10 Share Posted April 10 6 minutes ago, BillStime said: Oh. I guess just the blue parts, do. The blue parts don't talk either. But they do sing the blues Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
4th&long Posted April 10 Share Posted April 10 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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