Kirby Jackson Posted April 4 Share Posted April 4 (edited) Now that the dust has settled, how would you construct the WR room moving forward? Lay out the 6 or 7 WRs that you believe will comprise the WR room. For anyone not currently on the roster, lay out how they were acquired. There is a lot of talk in other threads about draft taargets, trade targets, guys left in FA. This is meant to talk about ALL of the WRs. Please do not use this as a place to say that we think Kincaid will see the ball more. That’s common sense. Let’s keep this strictly to WRs. How would you build out this room if you were Brandon Beane? WR room: - MHJ (Bills trade: pick 28, pick 133, 2025 1st, Minnesota 2025 2nd, Bills 2025 4th) (Arizona trades pick 4) - Khalil Shakir - Curtis Samuel - Michael Thomas (1 year $8M deal post June 1) - Jermaine Burton (pick 128) - Mack Hollins PS (2 or 3 of): - Shorter - Isabella - Shavers - UDFA We are pushing the chips in on a generational talent in MHJ. The Bills get an alpha, that has complete skills, HOF pedigree, on a rookie deal. It was hard to find the appropriate value for Arizona but if they think the Bills take a small step back & Minnesota a step back, the value is there. Those picks could be like picks 20 & 38 in 2025. Along with the mid round assets, it gets done. The Bills pay a hefty price but WRs aren’t cheap anymore. Shakir and Samuel are sort of interchangeable in my mind. They can play inside, outside and run after the catch. Samuel will be used more for gadgets and running plays but they’re both dangerous with the ball in their hands. The Bills get Thomas on a prove it deal. He’s battled injuries for a while but was once great. The “slant god” gives Allen a reliable, big body target, that can help on possession downs and in the red zone. If it works out, and he stays healthy, the Bills could consider bringing him back. If not, they move on in 2025. Burton goes to the Bills in the mid rounds. I haven’t been a huge fan of his through the draft process. There are some character concerns. He isn’t a guy that I’ve taken often while doing mocks, but just feels like the right fit to take the top off the defense here. His long speed fits well with this group. He’s been a really good deep ball guy and the Bills need that. Hollins is a ST guy and has been okay when targeted. He’s a rich man’s Kumerow. 2025 FA class is absolutely loaded at WR (at least at this point). The Bills can decide to chase a big fish (ie Jefferson, Higgins, etc..) if they so choose. The above group should be enough to be competitive in 2024. To conclude: The Bills give up a lot of assets to get Harrison but immediately fill the top of their depth chart on a rookie deal. They add Thomas and Burton to add a couple of different skill sets to the roster. Overall the group has some balance and a true difference maker. How would you build the room out? Edited April 4 by Kirby Jackson 3 1 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillMafia716ix Posted April 4 Share Posted April 4 Stay at 28. Draft a WR. The WR class is loaded no need to give up next year 1st. 4 11 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kirby Jackson Posted April 4 Author Share Posted April 4 Just now, BillMafia716ix said: Stay at 28. Draft a WR. The WR class is loaded no need to give up next year 1st. Okay, that’s a fair opinion. I’m not looking for “a good guy.” I’m looking for a top of the depth chart, low risk, stud. The goal of this wasn’t to say what we wouldn’t do. There’s plenty of that going on here already. This was, “who would be your 6 or 7 WRs on the roster this year and how did you get them?” Obviously we don’t know who will be on the board at 28 but we can use reasonable assumptions. Harrison won’t be, Pearsall will be, Mitchell might be. Be reasonable but lay out what your group would look like 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillMafia716ix Posted April 4 Share Posted April 4 4 minutes ago, Kirby Jackson said: Okay, that’s a fair opinion. I’m not looking for “a good guy.” I’m looking for a top of the depth chart, low risk, stud. The goal of this wasn’t to say what we wouldn’t do. There’s plenty of that going on here already. This was, “who would be your 6 or 7 WRs on the roster this year and how did you get them?” Obviously we don’t know who will be on the board at 28 but we can use reasonable assumptions. Harrison won’t be, Pearsall will be, Mitchell might be. Be reasonable but lay out what your group would look like Shakir Curtis Samuel (Adonai Mitchell, Troy Franklin, or Brain Thomas Jr.) FA - Tyler Boyd Post June 1 Shorter/KJ Hamler Mack Hollins. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RobbRiddick Posted April 4 Share Posted April 4 While giving up next year's first makes sense in a lot of ways, I don't see Beane doing that. Doesn't seem his style. And it definitely doesn't seem his style to give up so much to try and engineer his way into pick 4. I could see him swinging something to get into the 18 to 20 range 2 2 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TPS Posted April 4 Share Posted April 4 When folks suggest giving up significant 2025 draft capital for a WR, one name comes to mind, Doug Whaley... 2 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doc Brown Posted April 4 Share Posted April 4 1 minute ago, TPS said: When folks suggest giving up significant 2025 draft capital for a WR, one name comes to mind, Doug Whaley... Falcons went to a Super Bowl thanks in large part to Julio Jones. Just make sure if we do make that move the WR doesn't believe the earth is flat. 3 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GunnerBill Posted April 4 Share Posted April 4 1 hour ago, Kirby Jackson said: Now that the dust has settled, how would you construct the WR room moving forward? Lay out the 6 or 7 WRs that you believe will comprise the WR room. For anyone not currently on the roster, lay out how they were acquired. There is a lot of talk in other threads about draft taargets, trade targets, guys left in FA. This is meant to talk about ALL of the WRs. Please do not use this as a place to say that we think Kincaid will see the ball more. That’s common sense. Let’s keep this strictly to WRs. How would you build out this room if you were Brandon Beane? WR room: - MHJ (Bills trade: pick 28, pick 133, 2025 1st, Minnesota 2025 2nd, Bills 2025 4th) (Arizona trades pick 4) - Khalil Shakir - Curtis Samuel - Michael Thomas (1 year $8M deal post June 1) - Jermaine Burton (pick 128) - Mack Hollins PS (2 or 3 of): - Shorter - Isabella - Shavers - UDFA We are pushing the chips in on a generational talent in MHJ. The Bills get an alpha, that has complete skills, HOF pedigree, on a rookie deal. It was hard to find the appropriate value for Arizona but if they think the Bills take a small step back & Minnesota a step back, the value is there. Those picks could be like picks 20 & 38 in 2025. Along with the mid round assets, it gets done. The Bills pay a hefty price but WRs aren’t cheap anymore. Shakir and Samuel are sort of interchangeable in my mind. They can play inside, outside and run after the catch. Samuel will be used more for gadgets and running plays but they’re both dangerous with the ball in their hands. The Bills get Thomas on a prove it deal. He’s battled injuries for a while but was once great. The “slant god” gives Allen a reliable, big body target, that can help on possession downs and in the red zone. If it works out, and he stays healthy, the Bills could consider bringing him back. If not, they move on in 2025. Burton goes to the Bills in the mid rounds. I haven’t been a huge fan of his through the draft process. There are some character concerns. He isn’t a guy that I’ve taken often while doing mocks, but just feels like the right fit to take the top off the defense here. His long speed fits well with this group. He’s been a really good deep ball guy and the Bills need that. Hollins is a ST guy and has been okay when targeted. He’s a rich man’s Kumerow. 2025 FA class is absolutely loaded at WR (at least at this point). The Bills can decide to chase a big fish (ie Jefferson, Higgins, etc..) if they so choose. The above group should be enough to be competitive in 2024. To conclude: The Bills give up a lot of assets to get Harrison but immediately fill the top of their depth chart on a rookie deal. They add Thomas and Burton to add a couple of different skill sets to the roster. Overall the group has some balance and a true difference maker. How would you build the room out? I could absolutely get on board with this approach. Thomas a low price deal that kicks half the number to next year and is incentive laden makes sense to me and Harrisonnis such a high floor he will be good right away. Not totally sure if your offer does it (given you likely have Minnesota offering two 2024 firsts to get there for a QB).... but if it did I'd do it. Question is if #4/#5 are not in play what would you give to get to #6 if it means Nabers / Odunze? What about to #8/#9 if one of the three is still there? Or for you @Kirby Jackson is it Harrison or take your chances at #28 / smaller non future 1st trade up into early 20s? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kirby Jackson Posted April 4 Author Share Posted April 4 (edited) 22 minutes ago, TPS said: When folks suggest giving up significant 2025 draft capital for a WR, one name comes to mind, Doug Whaley... Lol, it’s a different world than it was in 2014. The salary cap in 2014 was $133M. The top 10 highest cap hits for a wr in 2014 averaged $12m or 9% of the salary cap. So basically, the teams with the highest paid guys paid them 9% of the cap. In 2024, they average over $26M and 10.3% of the cap. That is BEFORE Jefferson and Chase sign their extensions. That number will be roughly 12% when they do. We need to STOP comparing situations to different generations. For perspective 3% of the current cap is almost $8m of cap space. What happened at WR in 2014 is not comparable to 2024. 4 minutes ago, GunnerBill said: I could absolutely get on board with this approach. Thomas a low price deal that kicks half the number to next year and is incentive laden makes sense to me and Harrisonnis such a high floor he will be good right away. Not totally sure if your offer does it (given you likely have Minnesota offering two 2024 firsts to get there for a QB).... but if it did I'd do it. Question is if #4/#5 are not in play what would you give to get to #6 if it means Nabers / Odunze? What about to #8/#9 if one of the three is still there? Or for you @Kirby Jackson is it Harrison or take your chances at #28 / smaller non future 1st trade up into early 20s? Good questions GB. You’re probably right on the value being too low. My thought was more them fading the Bills a little and Vikings a lot. I’m on board with all 3 but have Harrison at 1. That’s in large part because of the floor as you mentioned. I think his floor is Amari Cooper’s career. His ceiling is Calvin Johnson. Apparently the Bills really like Nabers. I personally like Odunze even a little more (although that was partially a fit next to Diggs). If it gets to 8 or 9 it’s an easy decision for me. The Bears lack picks so I could see them being in play. Edited April 4 by Kirby Jackson 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GunnerBill Posted April 4 Share Posted April 4 Just now, Kirby Jackson said: Lol, it’s a different world than it was in 2014. The salary cap in 2014 was $133M. The top 10 highest cap hits for a wr in 2014 averaged $12m or 9% of the salary cap. So basically, the teams with the highest paid guys paid them 9% of the cap. In 2024, they average over $26M and 10.3% of the cap. That is BEFORE Jefferson and Chase sign their extensions. That number will be roughly 12% when they do. We need to STOP comparing situations to different generations. For perspective 3% of the current cap is almost $8m of cap space. What happened at WR in 2014 is not comparable to 2024. Also the problem with Sammy wasn't the trade. It was the player. If they had 10 years of 1,000 yard seasons from Mike Evans from that trade up I think people would look on it very differently. And this is not wise after the event. 2014 was my first year trying to grade prospects... I graded 56 players. I had Mike Evans as the 2nd best player in the draft. Clowney, Evans, Matthews was my top 3. The problem wasn't the trade. It was Sammy Watkins. 5 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
juno999 Posted April 4 Share Posted April 4 (edited) Even before the Bills traded Diggs, I was believing the Bills would make a big move up in the 2025 draft to get WR1. The Bills have too many roster spots to fill in 2024 (S, CB, LB, OL, DT, and WR). I think the Bills draft 2 WRs this year and sign a veteran WR on a 1yr deal. Then bust a move in 2025 draft to get a legit WR1 when the roster is more stable. Edited April 4 by juno999 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boyst Posted April 4 Share Posted April 4 i like both the move up for MHJ and the stay put and build cornerstones of our team approach. One is the Julio Jones move. The other is the Packers move. I am ok with either but if we only move up to draft random WR not names Marvin than I am out. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KDIGGZ Posted April 4 Share Posted April 4 Trade back from 28 to 30-35 (Penix and Nix would still be there) and then use that pick to move up from 60 to 40. Pick 30'ish - Mitchell or Worthy Pick 40'ish - McConkey, Leggette, Franklin Double dip!! 7 3 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kirby Jackson Posted April 4 Author Share Posted April 4 2 minutes ago, KDIGGZ said: Trade back from 28 to 30-35 (Penix and Nix would still be there) and then use that pick to move up from 60 to 40. Pick 30'ish - Mitchell or Worthy Pick 40'ish - McConkey, Leggette, Franklin Double dip!! This is the other best way to do it IMO. I’d love a Legette/McConkey combination. I feel like their games mesh well. 5 2 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GunnerBill Posted April 4 Share Posted April 4 5 minutes ago, boyst said: i like both the move up for MHJ and the stay put and build cornerstones of our team approach. One is the Julio Jones move. The other is the Packers move. I am ok with either but if we only move up to draft random WR not names Marvin than I am out. Picking a WR round 1 would not be a Packers move. 1st round picks are for QBs and defenders in Cheese Land. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kirby Jackson Posted April 4 Author Share Posted April 4 Just now, GunnerBill said: Picking a WR round 1 would not be a Packers move. 1st round picks are for QBs and defenders in Cheese Land. I think that’s what he’s saying. You can either go get the star (a la Julio Jones) or you can accumulate guys in hopes of filling out the room (Watson, Doubs, Reed, Wicks) 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
strive_for_five_guy Posted April 4 Share Posted April 4 If we can move up to pick #4 with what OP proposed, that’s a steal and we should jump on it. Draft value charts suggest that should only get us up to about pick #11. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HaldimandBills Posted April 4 Share Posted April 4 Not saying for sure id do this but on every mock draft simulator it shows the Bills based on the trade value charts could take a receiver at 28 and trade back into the 1st at 29 to 32 by trading the 60th and next years 1st. This would allow us to double dip at reciever and hedge our bets. Bills could also just take a reciever at 28 and 60. Polk and other interesting options could be around at 60. What I dont want to see happen is the Bills trade up and use this year first. next years first and this years second to do it. I want the Bills to walk away with two receivers this draft from the first 2 rounds. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kirby Jackson Posted April 4 Author Share Posted April 4 4 minutes ago, strive_for_five_guy said: If we can move up to pick #4 with what OP proposed, that’s a steal and we should jump on it. Draft value charts suggest that should only get us up to about pick #11. Yeah, it’s certainly a little optimistic. The cards would be betting a little on regression from the Bills and Vikings. I am a big Pelicans fan and they control the Lakers unprotected 1st in either 2024 or 2025. It is likely to be around 15 this year. That’s not a great pick in a not so great draft. Maybe AD gets hurt next year and age catches LeBron and it’s a top 5 pick. However, if the Lakers go add a 3rd star this summer it may be 29 next year. You are anticipating how they’ll be. The scenario above is predicated on the Cards thinking that there’s too much turnover on the Bills and they become a .500ish team AND the Vikings stink with Sam Darnold and that’s pick 35. now all of a sudden they have a ton of ammo in 2025 (and may need to get a QB). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GunnerBill Posted April 4 Share Posted April 4 14 minutes ago, Kirby Jackson said: I think that’s what he’s saying. You can either go get the star (a la Julio Jones) or you can accumulate guys in hopes of filling out the room (Watson, Doubs, Reed, Wicks) Yea it just wouldn't involve one at #28. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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