Scott7975 Posted January 10 Share Posted January 10 (edited) On 1/8/2024 at 1:38 PM, oldmanfan said: My second suggestion would be to list the players on the roster and note which are open to either positive or negative critique on the board. For example, is Gabe Davis allowed to be praised at all, like when he wipes out two guys on a block that springs Shakir for a big gain? Can we criticize Cook for dropping an easy pass while praising him for good runs? Is Spencer Brown ever allowed praise? Josh as we see in this thread might be on the can’t criticize list. Josh had 78 snaps. Cook might get a couple passes. Davis might get a couple passes. So if Josh messes up a couple plays when he takes the ball 78 times vs a guy that drops 1 of a few passes for a TD or a guy that can't get his head right on a cover zero blitz or trips over his own feet... its a huge difference. Edited January 10 by Scott7975 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scott7975 Posted January 10 Share Posted January 10 (edited) On 1/8/2024 at 6:28 PM, Buffalo Bills Fan said: If paused at 24 seconds looks like Allen throw and the defender all over Gabe. Not sure if Davis saw Allen throwing the ball. I'm not sure if Davis saw the ball coming possibly? Could be on neither people. Defender hate to say it Apple made a great play. Thats the whole point... its cover zero and Davis is out there trying to run circles like he has all day instead of getting his head around to look for the ball. Dude has no game awareness. All he had to do was turn around and box out the defender. The ball was thrown right to where he was. Instead Gabe too busy trying to get cute. He's still running a route and the ball is pretty much intercepted before he even looked for it. Edited January 10 by Scott7975 1 1 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldmanfan Posted January 10 Share Posted January 10 9 hours ago, Scott7975 said: Josh had 78 snaps. Cook might get a couple passes. Davis might get a couple passes. So if Josh messes up a couple plays when he takes the ball 78 times vs a guy that drops 1 of a few passes for a TD or a guy that can't get his head right on a cover zero blitz or trips over his own feet... its a huge difference. Dude, my comment was meant to be tongue in cheek, but the way you jump right to the defense of Allen says it all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Billsfan1972 Posted January 10 Share Posted January 10 It's really simple, if you are a Josh fan (and I'm the biggest), you see those two interceptions as at worst a fourth down heave he had to make on a badly designed play and Gabe, being Gabe and again not being aware and making the right play. A great strip sack, which was unfortunate, but happens (and again bad line play). Add to that Cook dropping an easy TD. The one I am disappointed in was an easy TD to Diggs and a bad overthrow (this is shades of Josh year 1 & 2). If you are the national media, you love to crusify Josh. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scott7975 Posted January 10 Share Posted January 10 54 minutes ago, oldmanfan said: Dude, my comment was meant to be tongue in cheek, but the way you jump right to the defense of Allen says it all. No. You were trying to say that people criticize Cook or Davis or whoever but other people can't call out Allen. I pointed out that Allen touches the ball a ton of times whereas the other guys might see it a few times a game in the passing game at best. The point is... of course their mistakes are magnified. Their percentage of mistakes is way higher. Nothing more, nothing less. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GunnerBill Posted January 10 Share Posted January 10 3 minutes ago, Billsfan1972 said: It's really simple, if you are a Josh fan (and I'm the biggest), you see those two interceptions as at worst a fourth down heave he had to make on a badly designed play and Gabe, being Gabe and again not being aware and making the right play. I'm a Josh fan. I also try and be objective about what happens on the field. I don't absolve him of mistakes he makes. Not does he, by the way. It is what I love about him. He knows and admits he was beating us in the first half. He came out and put that right, especially in the 4th Quarter where he willed us to victory. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chaos Posted January 10 Share Posted January 10 On 1/7/2024 at 11:28 PM, oldmanfan said: He stunk the first half. And then played as good as a QB can play in the fourth quarter. No one needs you being the thought police. The best part is rooting for Allen is that he plays the whole game to the end, and regularly makes complete fools of his critics. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Billsfan1972 Posted January 10 Share Posted January 10 (edited) 10 minutes ago, GunnerBill said: I'm a Josh fan. I also try and be objective about what happens on the field. I don't absolve him of mistakes he makes. Not does he, by the way. It is what I love about him. He knows and admits he was beating us in the first half. He came out and put that right, especially in the 4th Quarter where he willed us to victory. If Cook catches a simple pass, it is 14-14 at the half. As said the one big mistake was missing that Diggs pass. Now if only they converted that 4th down play and got to kneel from there. Edited January 10 by Billsfan1972 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GunnerBill Posted January 10 Share Posted January 10 14 minutes ago, Billsfan1972 said: If Cook catches a simple pass, it is 14-14 at the half. As said the one big mistake was missing that Diggs pass. Now if only they converted that 4th down play and got to kneel from there. I disagree that was the only mistake. I put both interceptions primarily on Josh. But I agree if Cook catches a ball that he has to catch it is 14 all at the half. What I was disputing was the inference that unless you excuse Josh for the mistakes you can't be a Josh fan. I am a Josh fan, he is the most watchable player in football and while I would still rank Mahomes #1 I wouldn't swap Josh Allen for any player in football. There is nobody else I'd rather were the Bills Quarterback. But I also apply the same standard to him that I apply to everyone else on the Bills and everyone else in the league and when I see a mistake I call it out. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Billsfan1972 Posted January 10 Share Posted January 10 (edited) 3 minutes ago, GunnerBill said: I disagree that was the only mistake. I put both interceptions primarily on Josh. But I agree if Cook catches a ball that he has to catch it is 14 all at the half. What I was disputing was the inference that unless you excuse Josh for the mistakes you can't be a Josh fan. I am a Josh fan, he is the most watchable player in football and while I would still rank Mahomes #1 I wouldn't swap Josh Allen for any player in football. There is nobody else I'd rather were the Bills Quarterback. But I also apply the same standard to him that I apply to everyone else on the Bills and everyone else in the league and when I see a mistake I call it out. The first interception was on Davis. Sorry week 18, you need to be on the same page. Allen threw it perfectly to where the receiver needed to be, and where a big bodied physical receiver should catch the ball, as he was looking for Davis right from the snap and Davis did what he seems to do too much, make absolutely the wrong read. The second was 4th down and actually netted the Bills 17 yards. Was a lousy call too btw. Edited January 10 by Billsfan1972 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GunnerBill Posted January 10 Share Posted January 10 Just now, Billsfan1972 said: The first interception was on Davis. Sorry week 18, you need to be on the same page. Allen threw it perfectly to where the receiver needed to be, and where a big bodied physical receiver should catch the ball, as he was looking for Davis right from the snap and Davis did what he seems to do too much, make absolutely the wrong read. The second was 4th down and actually netted the Bills 17 yards. Was a lousy call too btw. No your QB needs to not guess which way his receiver has gone on an option route when he can't really see through the rush and just protect the ball, eat the sack, kick the FG and live to fight another day. If that is the final drive of the game - fine. On the first drive of the game it is a totally unnecessary mistake. The second interception he comes off the right read that would have had the first down. Once he comes off that I don't mind him heaving it to the endzone, but he should have gone with the initial read. It wasn't a lousy call. The play was there to make Allen bails on it too quickly and starts ad-libbing. I know there are plays where he does that and makes an incredible play. And when he does he gets and deserves the credit. But when it goes wrong he should be held accountable. And he holds himself accountable, rightly. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Billsfan1972 Posted January 10 Share Posted January 10 (edited) Kincaid was just minimally open and seemed no one else was running a route and then Allen rolled right away from Kincaid. Just didn't look like a good play. As for Davis he needs to make the right read. Simple as that. Edited January 10 by Billsfan1972 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Royale with Cheese Posted January 10 Share Posted January 10 5 minutes ago, Billsfan1972 said: The first interception was on Davis. Sorry week 18, you need to be on the same page. Allen threw it perfectly to where the receiver needed to be, and where a big bodied physical receiver should catch the ball, as he was looking for Davis right from the snap and Davis did what he seems to do too much, make absolutely the wrong read. The second was 4th down and actually netted the Bills 17 yards. Was a lousy call too btw. How in the world in this option route do you know which way Gabe was supposed to go? How do you know where Allen was supposed to throw it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GunnerBill Posted January 10 Share Posted January 10 5 minutes ago, Royale with Cheese said: How in the world in this option route do you know which way Gabe was supposed to go? How do you know where Allen was supposed to throw it? He doesn't. He admitted himself above that because he is a Josh fan he finds a way to pin mistakes on others. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Royale with Cheese Posted January 10 Share Posted January 10 7 minutes ago, Billsfan1972 said: Kincaid was just minimally open and seemed no one else was running a route and then Allen rolled right away from Kincaid. Just didn't look like a good play. As opfr Davis he needs to make the right read. Simple as that. Kurt Warner in the film breakdown specifically talks about this play. It wasn't the best play call because there was no one running a quick route but Allen made this bad play call worse by not just eating it and taking the points. It's as simple as that. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Billsfan1972 Posted January 10 Share Posted January 10 (edited) 4 minutes ago, Royale with Cheese said: Kurt Warner in the film breakdown specifically talks about this play. It wasn't the best play call because there was no one running a quick route but Allen made this bad play call worse by not just eating it and taking the points. It's as simple as that. 4th down.... I can't believe people think there were points to be had. It was a bad call on 4th down. Edited January 10 by Billsfan1972 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Royale with Cheese Posted January 10 Share Posted January 10 1 minute ago, Billsfan1972 said: 4th down.... I can't believe peopl think there were points to be had. It was a bad call on 4th down. Yes you're right about that. How do you know which way Gabe was supposed to run and did you seriously say that you try to find ways to pin it on someone else? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bleed Bills Blue Posted January 10 Share Posted January 10 Let's admit it, there are only so many real opportunities that are available to throw a TD in any game. When a sure one is dropped and another is stolen by an over-officious jerk, it puts greater pressure on Josh to make something out of lesser chances. With an extra 14 points on the board, I believe there's more of a likelihood he throws those two balls away. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Billsfan1972 Posted January 10 Share Posted January 10 3 minutes ago, Royale with Cheese said: Yes you're right about that. How do you know which way Gabe was supposed to run and did you seriously say that you try to find ways to pin it on someone else? No I did not. I will say that as a fan I may look closer at what happened and if there is blame. I.e. Davis letting a strike go through his hands vs. Denver and being intercepted, wasn't nearly talked enough about. It is an inherent bias. Every Josh int one looks at and can often excuse (i.e. arm punt on 3rd down and long, end of the half Hail Mary, receiver didn't fight for it, deflection.....). Conversely if not a fan of the QB, you'll say say they threw interception worthy passes or got lucky. BTW I thought there is a stat that in terms of "interception worthy passes" or something similar, Josh is nowere near the worst (though stats say he throws the most ints). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Royale with Cheese Posted January 10 Share Posted January 10 17 minutes ago, Billsfan1972 said: No I did not. I will say that as a fan I may look closer at what happened and if there is blame. I.e. Davis letting a strike go through his hands vs. Denver and being intercepted, wasn't nearly talked enough about. It is an inherent bias. Every Josh int one looks at and can often excuse (i.e. arm punt on 3rd down and long, end of the half Hail Mary, receiver didn't fight for it, deflection.....). Conversely if not a fan of the QB, you'll say say they threw interception worthy passes or got lucky. BTW I thought there is a stat that in terms of "interception worthy passes" or something similar, Josh is nowere near the worst (though stats say he throws the most ints). Are you basically saying that of every one of Allen's INT's, an excuse can be made it's not his fault? Yes Davis has had his struggles and so has Allen. Allen is a significantly more valuable and a better player but that doesn't mean he's perfect. Allen has some really bad decisions and INT's. Allen, just like everyone else is at fault when they are struggles. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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