Devils advocate...what is Josh is the problem?

[CincyBillsFan]

5 minutes ago, Over 29 years of fanhood said:

False- the last drive was a fumble. 
 

We agree it’s a problem that Mac Jones is the one that looks like Joe Montana in that game. Very well put. They better get this thing back on the rails. 3 bad losses now, and a heroic defensive effort away from sub 500 record 

What garbage.  You're throwing out the fumble on the last desperation play of the game. Again what should we do about what you consider our big problem with Allen?  Come on let us know what we should do.  Obviously anyone as negative as you have been about Allen must have a plan for what we should do.  So when do we put him on the trading block?

[Joe Ferguson forever]

10 minutes ago, 78thealltimegreat said:

He sucked 

Dude had a 17 year NFL career.  I'd like to suck as bad as he did...  played at Arkansas apparently.  but pretty sure he's a Louisiana guy.

 

https://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/F/FergJo00.htm

 

 

Do u have any idea how bad the late 70's early 80's Bills were?

6 minutes ago, 78thealltimegreat said:

Of course and Joe Ferguson who you probably weren’t alive to watch yet 

I'm 63,  saw games in the rock pile.  F off u hoser.

Edited October 24, 2023 by Joe Ferguson forever

[CincyBillsFan]

2 minutes ago, Over 29 years of fanhood said:

he is like Flutie in the context that people who have little grasp of the game of football or are too infatuated to admit his massive inconsistency religiously refute how instrumental he is in losing these games with his erratic decision making. 
 

these are the same people that blamed every long run ever on edmunds. Because they don’t understand what they are actually watching. 
 

 

So what do we next given that you obviously consider yourself knowledgeable about the game of football.  Clearly in your opinion Allen is not very good.  This must mean you favor parting ways with him so how would you propose we should do it?

 

 

[78thealltimegreat]

4 minutes ago, Over 29 years of fanhood said:

Ok so you lied or forgot about the actual last drive? 

The one they wanted you to come in the game for? I kinda wrote off the game after Diggs dropped the ball. 

3 minutes ago, CincyBillsFan said:

So what do we next given that you obviously consider yourself knowledgeable about the game of football.  Clearly in your opinion Allen is not very good.  This must mean you favor parting ways with him so how would you propose we should do it?

 

 

Cincy don’t bother he’s a troll he amuses me cause he only ever pops up after a loss to blame Allen for the coffee not being hot enough at the stadium. 

[newcam2012]

7 minutes ago, CincyBillsFan said:

So Flutie is equal to Allen now?

 

So what do we do with Allen? If he's really not that good which is what you're arguing then you must want to move on from him right?  You know that they could get a minimum of 3 first round picks & 3 second round picks for Allen.  Probably more then 25 teams would make this trade in a heartbeat. Imagine what the brain trust could do with that much draft capital.

 

So put your money where your mouth is.  You trash Allen and those that support him so give us your vision going forward of a life with Allen on another team and the Bills swimming in draft picks.

 

 

 

 

 

This is total garbage and doesn't reflect what we're seeing this year.  It's straight up trolling. 

I don't think it's total garbage. Allen is far from the problem. Many including myself may hold him to an unacceptable high standard. 

 

Allen has missed several reads that have been open. The Jets game was abysmal. He single handily gave that game away. 

 

The offense has been terrible for three straight games. That's not acceptable. We aren't talking a quarter or two. Allen is the leader of the offense. Without him, the team likely doesn't win many games. That's just reality. As he goes the team goes.

 

Its hard to really quantify the percentage of the offensive woes. Allen certainly has to burden some of it though. How much is debatable. 

 

My fan eyes see a different Allen this year. Almost like he's a bite distracted, not quite focused, and frustrated. His slow starts almost indicate he's not prepared or focused. Almost like he's pulling a "Michael Vick" if you will. 

 

The most obvious difference in Allen is his reluctance to run. That skill really set him apart from other QBs. His legs absolutely gives the Bills the best chance to win. He's effectively cut off at the knees by choice or by coaches. 

 

In short, Allen is the future of the Bills. He's the main reason for the recent success and playoff births. I think most will concede this as a given. Nevertheless, he deserves plenty of criticism this season. 

[Joe Ferguson forever]

3 minutes ago, 78thealltimegreat said:

The one they wanted you to come in the game for? I kinda wrote off the game after Diggs dropped the ball. 

Cincy don’t bother he’s a troll he amuses me cause he only ever pops up after a loss to blame Allen for the coffee not being hot enough at the stadium. 

not gonna let this drop

 

Ferguson placed in the top 10 in pass attempts five times, completions and passing yards four times, passing touchdowns six times, and yards per pass three times. At one time he shared, with Ron Jaworski, the NFL record for consecutive starts by a quarterback with 107, until he was replaced by Joe Dufek on September 30, 1984. He has a 1–3 record in the NFL postseason, winning against the New York Jets in 1981. His three losses came from the Cincinnati Bengals in those same 1981 playoffs, the San Diego Chargers the year before in 1980 (a game in which he played the entire contest with a sprained ankle), and in 1974 to the Pittsburgh Steelers. He retired after the 1990 season after playing only one game with the Colts.

 

What have you accomplished that beats this?

[Over 29 years of fanhood]

1 minute ago, CincyBillsFan said:

What garbage.  You're throwing out the fumble on the last desperation play of the game. Again what should we do about what you consider our big problem with Allen?  Come on let us know what we should do.  Obviously anyone as negative as you have been about Allen must have a plan for what we should do.  So when do we put him on the trading block?

why is pointing out a fact so troubling? 
 

The post said last 7 drives and omitted the last drive. That’s false. 
 

I know homerism runs deep but your beef is with the drive chart. 
 

Allen is regressing…. Is clear as day. He either needs to start playing to win or maybe they should collect a franchise rebuild draft pick suite and let him play hero ball elsewhere a la Russ. He’s been out played by Zack Wilson, NFL Barbie, Tyrod Taylor and Mac Jones now this season. He’s bested Heineke, Tua and Gorropollo. 🤔 

 

personally I’d much rather he just move the chains when it’s wide open instead of extending plays scrambling, making the o line have to pass block 7 seconds and turning the ball over more than anyone else since he’s entered the league. 

[Joe Ferguson forever]

Just now, Over 29 years of fanhood said:

why is pointing out a fact so troubling? 
 

The post said last 7 drives and omitted the last drive. That’s false. 
 

I know homerism runs deep but your beef is with the drive chart. 
 

Allen is regressing…. Is clear as day. He either needs to start playing to win or maybe they should collect a franchise rebuild draft pick suite and let him play hero ball elsewhere a la Russ. He’s been out played by Zack Wilson, NFL Barbie, Tyrod Taylor and Mac Jones now this season. He’s bested Heineke, Tua and Gorropollo. 🤔 

 

personally I’d much rather he just move the chains when it’s wide open instead of extending plays scrambling, making the o line have to pass block 7 seconds and turning the ball over more than anyone else since he’s entered the league. 

he's still got all pro talent.  he's in a funk.  Why, I have no idea

[78thealltimegreat]

1 minute ago, Joe Ferguson forever said:

not gonna let this drop

 

Ferguson placed in the top 10 in pass attempts five times, completions and passing yards four times, passing touchdowns six times, and yards per pass three times. At one time he shared, with Ron Jaworski, the NFL record for consecutive starts by a quarterback with 107, until he was replaced by Joe Dufek on September 30, 1984. He has a 1–3 record in the NFL postseason, winning against the New York Jets in 1981. His three losses came from the Cincinnati Bengals in those same 1981 playoffs, the San Diego Chargers the year before in 1980 (a game in which he played the entire contest with a sprained ankle), and in 1974 to the Pittsburgh Steelers. He retired after the 1990 season after playing only one game with the Colts.

 

What have you accomplished that beats this?

Joe Ferguson sucked period he was Staubach, Bradshaw, Andersen, Fouts, Marino, Elway, heck he wasn’t even Danny White and it’s obvious you ain’t 63 either 

[newcam2012]

20 minutes ago, Joe Ferguson forever said:

He's been awful for 3 games.  He's got it in him, he just isn't on his A game.  Or B game.  He has the yips.  Hopefully they're gone soon....

I don't think he has the yips. I think he's under prepared and lacks focus early in games. 

 

I think he's lost confidence in the coaching and the play calling. I think he only trust Diggs and feels like everyone else isn't reliable. I think he's beginning to see and feel the pressure from the oline weaknesses. 

 

At the end of games, Allen seems very focused and confident. Has a swagger and makes plays and things happen. Sort of plays back yard football and takes things into his own hands. That's anything but the yips. 

[Success]

2 minutes ago, newcam2012 said:

I don't think it's total garbage. Allen is far from the problem. Many including myself may hold him to an unacceptable high standard. 

 

Allen has missed several reads that have been open. The Jets game was abysmal. He single handily gave that game away. 

 

The offense has been terrible for three straight games. That's not acceptable. We aren't talking a quarter or two. Allen is the leader of the offense. Without him, the team likely doesn't win many games. That's just reality. As he goes the team goes.

 

Its hard to really quantify the percentage of the offensive woes. Allen certainly has to burden some of it though. How much is debatable. 

 

My fan eyes see a different Allen this year. Almost like he's a bite distracted, not quite focused, and frustrated. His slow starts almost indicate he's not prepared or focused. Almost like he's pulling a "Michael Vick" if you will. 

 

The most obvious difference in Allen is his reluctance to run. That skill really set him apart from other QBs. His legs absolutely gives the Bills the best chance to win. He's effectively cut off at the knees by choice or by coaches. 

 

In short, Allen is the future of the Bills. He's the main reason for the recent success and playoff births. I think most will concede this as a given. Nevertheless, he deserves plenty of criticism this season. 

 

I would call this take pretty fair.

 

I think that distracted thing is him thinking too much.  I do think he has been coached and reminded constantly to avoid running - they even talked about that a few times in the offseason.  So, his instinct is telling him one thing, and this sort of artificial reprogramming is giving him a conflicting message.

 

Just from what I see, it seems to have taken some of the joy of playing away for him. And that's one of his best characteristics when he's playing well - he's like a big kid.  I remember one time he ran last year and took a pretty hard tackle, and he got up just smiling.  It was great.  

 

I'm really hoping that they realize the "no running" experiment is failing, and get him back to playing his game.

 

[balln]

2 minutes ago, newcam2012 said:

I don't think he has the yips. I think he's under prepared and lacks focus early in games. 

 

I think he's lost confidence in the coaching and the play calling. I think he only trust Diggs and feels like everyone else isn't reliable. I think he's beginning to see and feel the pressure from the oline weaknesses. 

 

At the end of games, Allen seems very focused and confident. Has a swagger and makes plays and things happen. Sort of plays back yard football and takes things into his own hands. That's anything but the yips. 

Sort of. End of games. It’s really the jax and pats game where they’re down 2 scores. The D they are playing is super soft. Let them catch and burn time. Both times bills haven’t won.

 

there is something in there tho to be gleaned I hope for Dorsey to use in the beginning of games

[78thealltimegreat]

2 minutes ago, Over 29 years of fanhood said:

why is pointing out a fact so troubling? 
 

The post said last 7 drives and omitted the last drive. That’s false. 
 

I know homerism runs deep but your beef is with the drive chart. 
 

Allen is regressing…. Is clear as day. He either needs to start playing to win or maybe they should collect a franchise rebuild draft pick suite and let him play hero ball elsewhere a la Russ. He’s been out played by Zack Wilson, NFL Barbie, Tyrod Taylor and Mac Jones now this season. He’s bested Heineke, Tua and Gorropollo. 🤔 

 

personally I’d much rather he just move the chains when it’s wide open instead of extending plays scrambling, making the o line have to pass block 7 seconds and turning the ball over more than anyone else since he’s entered the league. 

As you can tell 29 actually includes a throwback at the end of the game play as a drive and omits Allen’s 50 yard rope the play before that Diggs dropped. 
 

In other words 29 is Joe Marino  

[CincyBillsFan]

1 minute ago, Over 29 years of fanhood said:

why is pointing out a fact so troubling? 
 

The post said last 7 drives and omitted the last drive. That’s false. 
 

I know homerism runs deep but your beef is with the drive chart. 
 

Allen is regressing…. Is clear as day. He either needs to start playing to win or maybe they should collect a franchise rebuild draft pick suite and let him play hero ball elsewhere a la Russ. He’s been out played by Zack Wilson, NFL Barbie, Tyrod Taylor and Mac Jones now this season. He’s bested Heineke, Tua and Gorropollo. 🤔 

 

personally I’d much rather he just move the chains when it’s wide open instead of extending plays scrambling, making the o line have to pass block 7 seconds and turning the ball over more than anyone else since he’s entered the league. 

So answer the question of what should the Bills do with the albatross of Josh Allen hanging around their necks?  Given that most of the NFL would part ways with an enormous number of draft picks to acquire Allen shouldn't we put him on the trading block ASAP? After all if he continues to "suck" as you say his value will drop.

 

So tell us what you would do.  Real Bills fans have no problem proposing solutions to the teams problems.  We do it all the time on 2BD.

 

[Joe Ferguson forever]

1 minute ago, Success said:

 

Just from what I see, it seems to have taken some of the joy of playing away for him. And that's one of his best characteristics when he's playing well - he's like a big kid.  I remember one time he ran last year and took a pretty hard tackle, and he got up just smiling.  It was great.

He's a gladiator but lately the guys with the tridents (or various other inferior weapons) have been bettering him

[Over 29 years of fanhood]

2 minutes ago, Success said:

 

I would call this take pretty fair.

 

I think that distracted thing is him thinking too much.  I do think he has been coached and reminded constantly to avoid running - they even talked about that a few times in the offseason.  So, his instinct is telling him one thing, and this sort of artificial reprogramming is giving him a conflicting message.

 

Just from what I see, it seems to have taken some of the joy of playing away for him. And that's one of his best characteristics when he's playing well - he's like a big kid.  I remember one time he ran last year and took a pretty hard tackle, and he got up just smiling.  It was great.  

 

I'm really hoping that they realize the "no running" experiment is failing, and get him back to playing his game.

 

 

and if his joy is in the fun play not the boring chain moving winning football  (He even called it ‘boring football’.) what do you do with that? 

4 minutes ago, CincyBillsFan said:

So answer the question of what should the Bills do with the albatross of Josh Allen hanging around their necks?  Given that most of the NFL would part ways with an enormous number of draft picks to acquire Allen shouldn't we put him on the trading block ASAP? After all if he continues to "suck" as you say his value will drop.

 

So tell us what you would do.  Real Bills fans have no problem proposing solutions to the teams problems.  We do it all the time on 2BD.

 

don’t we me child, I’ve been here a decade longer than you. So you quoted me as saying “suck” please find that post for me so we can get started? 

[78thealltimegreat]

4 minutes ago, CincyBillsFan said:

So answer the question of what should the Bills do with the albatross of Josh Allen hanging around their necks?  Given that most of the NFL would part ways with an enormous number of draft picks to acquire Allen shouldn't we put him on the trading block ASAP? After all if he continues to "suck" as you say his value will drop.

 

So tell us what you would do.  Real Bills fans have no problem proposing solutions to the teams problems.  We do it all the time on 2BD.

 

See we need to goto the QB store and order another QB who will have nearly 200 touchdowns before his 28th birthday. Well there’s been so many drafted franchise QBs why look at the Bears with Justin Fields or Carolina with Bryce Young or the 49ers with Trey Lance etc…

[Joe Ferguson forever]

Let's hope he's more like Jason Day and not at all like David Duval...I think it's a head game right now.

Edited October 24, 2023 by Joe Ferguson forever

[Over 29 years of fanhood]

3 minutes ago, 78thealltimegreat said:

See we need to goto the QB store and order another QB who will have nearly 200 touchdowns before his 28th birthday. Well there’s been so many drafted franchise QBs why look at the Bears with Justin Fields or Carolina with Bryce Young or the 49ers with Trey Lance etc…

I’d be more worried we are seeing Andrew Luck 2.0 here.  All I want is for him to stop being a turnover machine and actually read the defense and throw when he hits his drop, prioritize moving chains and situational football over flashy hero ball. 

Seems pretty reasonable to me 

[CincyBillsFan]

8 hours ago, Hebert19 said:

 

When you look at all 22 he is missing open guys all over and seems to be keying in on one guy in the route the entire time.  

 

The turnovers at the end of last year amd jets game were bad.  Like he didn't see the defenders.  

 

What are chances he's locking in on one guy because he isn't trusting what he's seeing now.   

 

 

He is missing open guys all over the place?  Really that is what your film study showed?

 

And how do the TO's at the end of LAST SEASON and the Jet's game impact what is happening now? Do you think that awful 3 INT game Allen had against NE in 2019 may have had an effect to?

 

Can you explain Allen's lack of trust in the first half but not the second half of the last three games?  Seems odd if that really is a thing.