Why I’m changing my mind on some things

[bmur66]

13 hours ago, oldmanfan said:

 Larry Bird used to say you need to change coaches every 5 years because players have heard everything you can say by then.  Is McD at that point?  I’m not sure.

 

 

I think Ol' Larry was right!

[bmur66]

12 hours ago, EasternOHBillsFan said:

 

 

 

Let me pick your brain here for a minute... I don't think the Bills have had talent on the offensive side of the ball like Allen and Diggs before, and I don't think there is any historical Bills precedent for what is going on, even for the Bickering Bills year.

 

 

Ahhh. Jim Kelly, Andre Reed, Thurman Thomas, James Lofton were kinda talented.

[Eastport bills]

1 hour ago, oldmanfan said:

Disinterested? Confused?  Lethargic? Deflated?  Pick a word. But in the losses this year, and in the narrow win last week, can anyone really deny that Allen is not the same Allen we’re used to seeing?  We have done nothing in the first half of those games, and Josh just comes to the sidelines and sits there.  It’s great he had the 2 TDs in the 4th quarter yesterday and that he then got pumped up.  But it’s a 60 minute game.

 

Yes the defense stunk yesterday.  Yes Dorsey is getting outcoached.  But also yes, our star QB is not the guy we’ve come to know.  All these need to get fixed.

Hey old man fan, you’re looking for things that aren’t there. This defense sucks, they’re not clutch and tell me they played good enough to beat 2 one and 5 teams because the G-Men should have won. Maybe look at the amateurish OC who calls the same predictable plays and Josh pulls TDs out of his ass. Tell me about a clueless defensive HC that adds zero to the offense and now his defense sucks. Tell me about a GM that provides nothing when we lose our return man and best corner. KC would have brought in 2 viable replacements. Say what you want, Josh is not blind. Would you blame if he sees a great rookie TE not getting targeted till game seven, or Cook whose a rising star getting minimal touches until the 2nd half. Shakir, Knox, Harty are invisible. Is this because Josh is different. Keep saying silly things and watch the guy bolt before his next contract. Any kind of a good PK and we win yesterday.

[oldmanfan]

7 minutes ago, Eastport bills said:

Hey old man fan, you’re looking for things that aren’t there. This defense sucks, they’re not clutch and tell me they played good enough to beat 2 one and 5 teams because the G-Men should have won. Maybe look at the amateurish OC who calls the same predictable plays and Josh pulls TDs out of his ass. Tell me about a clueless defensive HC that adds zero to the offense and now his defense sucks. Tell me about a GM that provides nothing when we lose our return man and best corner. KC would have brought in 2 viable replacements. Say what you want, Josh is not blind. Would you blame if he sees a great rookie TE not getting targeted till game seven, or Cook whose a rising star getting minimal touches until the 2nd half. Shakir, Knox, Harty are invisible. Is this because Josh is different. Keep saying silly things and watch the guy bolt before his next contract. Any kind of a good PK and we win yesterday.

Sorry but disagree completely.  First of all I specifically talked about Dorsey in my post as well as McD and you completely ignore than part.  And I’m sorry but Josh is not immune to criticism.  He lost the Jets game, said so himself.  And when you are as good as he is the offense can’t lay an egg in the first half 3 weeks in a row.  That is not just on Dorsey, the guy in the field making decisions where to go with the ball has to shoulder some of that.

[Eastport bills]

6 minutes ago, oldmanfan said:

Sorry but disagree completely.  First of all I specifically talked about Dorsey in my post as well as McD and you completely ignore than part.  And I’m sorry but Josh is not immune to criticism.  He lost the Jets game, said so himself.  And when you are as good as he is the offense can’t lay an egg in the first half 3 weeks in a row.  That is not just on Dorsey, the guy in the field making decisions where to go with the ball has to shoulder some of that.

I would take you seriously but you gloss over 2 decades  of low grade QB play and no playoffs. 4 division titles and generally regarded as a top 4 or 5 QB with the highest completion % in football. He’s hamstrung by a poor set of coaches and a decimated defense. What are you looking for? See if you can alienate the best player we’ve had in club history. You people come out of the woodwork after losses. 

[EasternOHBillsFan]

1 hour ago, bmur66 said:

Ahhh. Jim Kelly, Andre Reed, Thurman Thomas, James Lofton were kinda talented.

 

They were different... Jimbo was a pocket passer. Josh has freakish talent all around, something we have never had before. I worded it poorly... even Jimbo would tell you that Josh is a freak of nature, the type of QB the Bills have never had, and him COMBINED with a WR like Diggs is something we've never had before.

1 minute ago, Eastport bills said:

I would take you seriously but you gloss over 2 decades  of low grade QB play and no playoffs. 4 division titles and generally regarded as a top 4 or 5 QB with the highest completion % in football. He’s hamstrung by a poor set of coaches and a decimated defense. What are you looking for? See if you can alienate the best player we’ve had in club history. You people come out of the woodwork after losses. 

 

Show some respect to someone who's been aa Bills fan long before you were born and lived through more poor Bills seasons than you have... somehow I doubt he's "glossing over" anything. Josh accepts part of the blame for the problems, so the question is why can't YOU?

[Eastport bills]

16 minutes ago, EasternOHBillsFan said:

 

They were different... Jimbo was a pocket passer. Josh has freakish talent all around, something we have never had before. I worded it poorly... even Jimbo would tell you that Josh is a freak of nature, the type of QB the Bills have never had, and him COMBINED with a WR like Diggs is something we've never had before.

 

Show some respect to someone who's been aa Bills fan long before you were born and lived through more poor Bills seasons than you have... somehow I doubt he's "glossing over" anything. Josh accepts part of the blame for the problems, so the question is why can't YOU?

What are you his grandson? You don’t know anything about me. I’m sure I ‘ve been a Bills fan just as long as your grandpa, but that doesn’t matter. You guys are the analytical whiners that take our QB for granted. Maybe you enjoyed the suffering prior to Josh. Don’t talk about respect. Is your grandpa respecting the best player in Bills history and a great person as well.

[oldmanfan]

42 minutes ago, Eastport bills said:

I would take you seriously but you gloss over 2 decades  of low grade QB play and no playoffs. 4 division titles and generally regarded as a top 4 or 5 QB with the highest completion % in football. He’s hamstrung by a poor set of coaches and a decimated defense. What are you looking for? See if you can alienate the best player we’ve had in club history. You people come out of the woodwork after losses. 

What happened the decades before has no bearing in today.  And if you go back and look at my original post you’ll see I am generally optimistic, but that yesterday caused me to evaluate some things.  So no I don't come out of the woodwork, no I am not doom and gloom, and yes you just decide to read into things.  The Billszare in a bad way right now for multiple reasons, Josh is one of them, and no my single opinion is not going to alienate him.

[Eastport bills]

Just now, oldmanfan said:

What happened the decades before has no bearing in today.  And if you go back and look at my original post you’ll see I am generally optimistic, but that yesterday caused me to evaluate some things.  So no I don't come out of the woodwork, no I am not doom and gloom, and yes you just decide to read into things.  The Billszare in a bad way right now for multiple reasons, Josh is one of them, and no my single opinion is not going to alienate him.

Was Josh the problem yesterday when he put the team on his back and put together 2 great drives to take the lead with under 2 minutes left? Was Josh the problem when the defense gave up 3 straight drives for TD against Jax. Josh was the problem in game one, but he’s not the only guy that’s struggled against the Jets defense. Put a better OC and a better defensive performance out there and he’s not the problem.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[oldmanfan]

27 minutes ago, Eastport bills said:

What are you his grandson? You don’t know anything about me. I’m sure I ‘ve been a Bills fan just as long as your grandpa, but that doesn’t matter. You guys are the analytical whiners that take our QB for granted. Maybe you enjoyed the suffering prior to Josh. Don’t talk about respect. Is your grandpa respecting the best player in Bills history and a great person as well.

I love having Josh as QB.  But you can love having the guy and still recognize when there are issues.  As for the rest of your nonsense, the greatest Bill in history was either Bruce or OJ (before becoming a degenerate murderer); Josh has a ways to go.  You have no idea about Joshvthe person as you’ve never met him, although we all appreciate what he does in the community.  And far from being analytical, Josh’s numbers are good, but something is missing.  And that is obvious from the last 3 games.

 

Now run along.

2 minutes ago, Eastport bills said:

Was Josh the problem yesterday when he put the team on his back and put together 2 great drives to take the lead with under 2 minutes left? Was Josh the problem when the defense gave up 3 straight drives for TD against Jax. Josh was the problem in game one, but he’s not the only guy that’s struggled against the Jets defense. Put a better OC and a better defensive performance out there and he’s not the problem.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Again I have criticized the defense thoroughly.  Read everything posted before responding with drivel.  As for Josh did great in the 4th, but it is a 60 minute game.  If we come out and score it takes the Pars out of what they wanted to do.

[Sammy Watkins' Rib]

16 hours ago, oldmanfan said:

Go away and pat yourself on the back somewhere else.

[Mister Defense]

16 hours ago, Coach Tuesday said:

Their schemes seem stale.  Other teams come in knowing exactly how they want to attack the Bills’ schemes every week, those other teams practice what they want to do, and then they execute.

 

Can you really say the same about whatever is going on at OBD during the week?  Does this look like a team that does sophisticated advanced scouting, practices details, watches film, then goes out and executes?  Not to me.

 

At this rate this team will be LUCKY to have the privilege of playing three road playoff games if they think they’re going to the Big Dance.  Does this look like a team that can win ONE road playoff game?  And if by some miracle they reach the Super Bowl, are you ready to match our coaches’ wits against the sideline bosses of San Francisco or Philadelphia?

 

Again - the schemes are stale and the process is flawed.  Sometimes you just need a reset.  Ben Johnson would be my guy.

 

You nailed it, I think--it clearly seems to be that-- a lack of good weekly preparation. I think that is why you heard McDermott and others hit on the fact that they needed to do 'detailed' preparation to prepare for the Pats game after the problems on offense.

 

I have started to use the word lazy to define Dorsey's approach for the reasons you state.  He seems to think he doesn't need to do those things, that he just gets it, knows what to do without all of the messy, complicated detailed work that the good offensive coordinators do.

 

He knows the answers without all of that actual work, he thinks..

 

You can maybe get away with that approach on a low level college team and in high school football, but in the NFL it will quickly doom your team--and your career.

 

 

 

 

Edited October 23, 2023 by Mister Defense

[Dillenger4]

3 hours ago, Eastport bills said:

Josh looked disinterested? The reaction to losses is laughable on this forum. What I saw was a bad throw that after the Patriots took the opening kick and easily drove methodically to an opening FG, put us in a hole with a passive defense allowing a TD. This guy takes damaging self inflicted wounds to heart and being human, looked deflated by it. He came back and led a nice drive that stalled for a FG. His play in the 4th quarter was heroic and after our gutless, amateurish defense allowed time consuming drives to a team that’s averaging 12 points a game, he lead two precision drives that should have been enough. After the go ahead TD, he went up and down the bench pumping up the defense. What are you professional sports psychologists reading into with this guy. This is a below average defensive roster after the injuries,that is not dominant any more. Without Josh, you’re looking at the same slop we trotted out for 2 decades and now after a couple of losses you’re convinced he’s changed. Leading the league in completion percentage, throwing for top 5 in TDs and overcoming an OC that is so pathetically predictable that is solely responsible for the slow starts. That game should have been a W and we should be asking Sean why we allowed a 3rd string TE to have a couple of 40 yd gains when 3 guys missed tackles and our defense seemed a step slow and confused.

Post of the day! This hits it perfectly. Josh this... Josh that. All this blame for Josh and the O. How about the O that went down and scored when we needed it? Went for 2 points and nailed it! 

How about  the D who looked like paper tigers mashed with swiss cheese???!? OUR D IS HORRIBLE. Injuries???!!??? Cry me one... every team has injuries.

Josh and the boys took the lead with 2:00 mins left in the game. How about a stop? unreal.

And Dorsey is a clown.

[Eastport bills]

14 minutes ago, oldmanfan said:

I love having Josh as QB.  But you can love having the guy and still recognize when there are issues.  As for the rest of your nonsense, the greatest Bill in history was either Bruce or OJ (before becoming a degenerate murderer); Josh has a ways to go.  You have no idea about Joshvthe person as you’ve never met him, although we all appreciate what he does in the community.  And far from being analytical, Josh’s numbers are good, but something is missing.  And that is obvious from the last 3 games.

 

Now run along.

The reason I say he’s a great person is because he takes responsibility for losses and insulates teammates and coaches from criticism. He never shows up a teammate for a damaging play and his teammates love and respect him. I don’t take you seriously because vague accusations without specific references to issues hurting the team is frivolous crap. Please don’t compare OJ to Bruce Smith or Josh. How many divisions did they win with OJ? What was there composite record with him?When you boldly say “something is missing “, knowing the embarrassment that is our defense, offensive coaches and flurry of devastating injuries, it reflects the knee jerk scorched earth reaction to losses on this forum. It’s silly.

[oldmanfan]

7 minutes ago, Dillenger4 said:

Post of the day! This hits it perfectly. Josh this... Josh that. All this blame for Josh and the O. How about the O that went down and scored when we needed it? Went for 2 points and nailed it! 

How about  the D who looked like paper tigers mashed with swiss cheese???!? OUR D IS HORRIBLE. Injuries???!!??? Cry me one... every team has injuries.

Josh and the boys took the lead with 2:00 mins left in the game. How about a stop? unreal.

And Dorsey is a clown.

Yes the D sucked.  Where was the offense the first 3 quarters?  The first half the last several games?  The offense is not playing well and the QB is a big part of that.  We all love Josh but he is not infallible.

3 minutes ago, Eastport bills said:

The reason I say he’s a great person is because he takes responsibility for losses and insulates teammates and coaches from criticism. He never shows up a teammate for a damaging play and his teammates love and respect him. I don’t take you seriously because vague accusations without specific references to issues hurting the team is frivolous crap. Please don’t compare OJ to Bruce Smith or Josh. How many divisions did they win with OJ? What was there composite record with him?When you boldly say “something is missing “, knowing the embarrassment that is our defense, offensive coaches and flurry of devastating injuries, it reflects the knee jerk scorched earth reaction to losses on this forum. It’s silly.

Do you accept the way the offense has been playing?  And again go back and actually read what is written.  It is not knee jerk.

Edited October 23, 2023 by oldmanfan

[Eastport bills]

2 minutes ago, oldmanfan said:

Yes the D sucked.  Where was the offense the first 3 quarters?  The first half the last several games?  The offense is not playing well and the QB You s a big part of that.  We all love Josh but he is not infallible.

Do you accept the way the offense has been playing?  And again go back and actually read what is written.  It is not knee jerk.

Again, why are pointing a finger at Josh without specifics Thanks for the conversation and without specifics, I’m done.

11 minutes ago, Dillenger4 said:

Post of the day! This hits it perfectly. Josh this... Josh that. All this blame for Josh and the O. How about the O that went down and scored when we needed it? Went for 2 points and nailed it! 

How about  the D who looked like paper tigers mashed with swiss cheese???!? OUR D IS HORRIBLE. Injuries???!!??? Cry me one... every team has injuries.

Josh and the boys took the lead with 2:00 mins left in the game. How about a stop? unreal.

And Dorsey is a clown.

Good take, thanks for the sanity

[ngbills]

The easy take is the O did enough to win. But you were not watching the game if that is what you really think. The O did nothing until the final minutes of the game. It would have been a completely different game if O had done anything the first 3 quarters. NE doesn't fumble the ball away the O may not have even had a chance to get the go ahead score. They were asleep, then got a desperation drive TD and got the lucky fumble. Would have been nice if the D could have held on for the win. But the O is more to blame than the D here. 

[oldmanfan]

8 minutes ago, Eastport bills said:

Again, why are pointing a finger at Josh without specifics Thanks for the conversation and without specifics, I’m done.

Good take, thanks for the sanity

 

10 minutes ago, Eastport bills said:

Again, why are pointing a finger at Josh without specifics Thanks for the conversation and without specifics, I’m done.

Good take, thanks for the sanity

The bad throw on the pick the first drive.  Overthrowing Diggs.  Missing Davis in the back of the end zone.

 

I don’t get you two.  People have acknowledged the defense stunk.  People are rightfully critical of Dorsey and McD.  But Josh also makes mistakes as good as he is, but you refuse to see it.  Why?

[TheBrownBear]

I'm almost there with the OP, but we had similar mini-skids in the previous three seasons, and managed to turn it around (okay, 2022 is debatable) and string together a bunch of wins.  In some respects, this game played out similarly to the comeback/loss against Tampa in 2021.  I think we won our next 5 games after that one.  For whatever reason, we seem to have one of these patches every season that includes poor performances against objectively "bad" teams.  

 

If Dorsey has half a brain, I think the offense will figure out its problems, and I was encouraged by the increased usage of Kincaid in the passing game.  He's a real weapon and needs to supplant Knox in snap count ASAP.  My biggest concern is the defensive injuries.  We absolutely can not afford to lose Oliver for a prolonged period of time, because he's the last functioning patch in an already leaky dam of an interior line.  Bernard is a nice player, but he needs good interior D-line play to be effective. 

[EasternOHBillsFan]

1 hour ago, Eastport bills said:

What are you his grandson? You don’t know anything about me. I’m sure I ‘ve been a Bills fan just as long as your grandpa, but that doesn’t matter. You guys are the analytical whiners that take our QB for granted. Maybe you enjoyed the suffering prior to Josh. Don’t talk about respect. Is your grandpa respecting the best player in Bills history and a great person as well.

 

My grandpa died of brain cancer when I was 9 years old, so your complete lack of respect is noted. Don't you talk to me about respect.