Israel and the Slaughter in Gaza

[ComradeKayAdams]

28 minutes ago, sherpa said:

No offense, but I am quite sure you know nothing about carpet bombing, what the IDF has done, what they are faced with, or even their ability to "carpet bomb."

In fact, I doubt you have any idea what "tactical warfare" they are employing.

 

Again, no offense intended.

I assert that you simply have no idea.

 

Oh, no offense taken. I’m not a military expert.

 

But can you address the rest of my post? You seem to be dodging my concerns of ethnic cleansing and genocide. You come across as someone disturbingly comfortable with the official war crime of collective punishment.

 

Or perhaps I’m being unfair with that accusation?? This is your opportunity to clarify your stance on the Gazan plight.

 

8 minutes ago, Pokebball said:

Carpet bombing? Do you have evidence of this?

 

Would you be more comfortable with the phrase, “over-the-top bombing,” Pokey-balls??

[Pokebball]

Just now, ComradeKayAdams said:

 

 

Would you be more comfortable with the phrase, “over-the-top bombing,” Pokey-balls??

You own your words. Why the combative reply?

 

I'd be more comfortable with, since you're asking, accuracy.

[sherpa]

12 minutes ago, ComradeKayAdams said:

 

Oh, no offense taken. I’m not a military expert.

 

But can you address the rest of my post? You seem to be dodging my concerns of ethnic cleansing and genocide. You come across as someone disturbingly comfortable with the official war crime of collective punishment.

 

Or perhaps I’m being unfair with that accusation?? 

 

Glad to.

 

First, the Israelis don't have the capability, inclination or desire to "carpet bomb."

I trust your sincerity about not being aware, but you made the accusation.

 

What they are doing is attacking known Hamas underground tunnels.

If that is done in an urban setting, it looks the way it does.

That is the threat that Hamas has presented, and that is how it is being dealt with.

 

They drew the chessboard, and that determines the response.

 

Israel and the IDF have never engaged in anything resembling carpet bombing. 

[yall]

3 hours ago, ComradeKayAdams said:

 

But again…what does it mean to “eliminate Hamas,” exactly? Is there a list of top names whom the IDF needs to assassinate? A percentage of members from some official Hamas roster that need to be killed? 

 

And are these IDF tactics on the urban Gaza battlefield anything close to optimal?? Both the number (30,500+) and the percentage (~87%) of civilian casualties are ridiculously high (source: Euro-Med HRM, February 3 report). Many of the hostages have even perished due to the carpet bombing.

 

And what is this lengthy siege on Gaza doing for future Hamas recruitment?? Or for the long-term security of Israeli citizens abroad, for that matter? Or for Israel’s diplomatic standing in the world? Or for their economic vitality? So it’s clearly in the best interest of Israel to bring this conflict to a swift conclusion. However, it’s also difficult to bring a mission to a conclusion if the mission objectives aren’t clearly defined!

 

Then again…maybe the mission objectives were clear all along? Maybe the intent was land seizure and eventual Israeli citizen settlement of Gaza, with the hope that the concerned international community would take in all the Palestinian refugees? None of you here, after all, challenged me on my accusations of ethnic cleansing and genocide.

 

 

Please stop with these ridiculous insinuations of anti-Semitism. They are never get-out-of-jail-free cards for ethnic cleansing and genocide.

 

The purpose of protesting is to effect change. What good does protesting Putin do? Do you think he cares what the outside world thinks? The United States and Israel are democracies that, in theory at least, are responsive to their respective citizenry (in practice, admittedly, the U.S. functions as a corporate oligarchy while Israel is a satellite state of American imperialism that helps it maintain Middle Eastern hegemony).

I'll stop with the insinuating then; it's antisemitism.

 

 

[Tommy Callahan]

 

[ComradeKayAdams]

On 2/14/2024 at 3:21 PM, sherpa said:

Glad to.

 

First, the Israelis don't have the capability, inclination or desire to "carpet bomb."

I trust your sincerity about not being aware, but you made the accusation.

 

What they are doing is attacking known Hamas underground tunnels.

If that is done in an urban setting, it looks the way it does.

That is the threat that Hamas has presented, and that is how it is being dealt with.

 

They drew the chessboard, and that determines the response.

 

Israel and the IDF have never engaged in anything resembling carpet bombing. 

 

With all due respect, Sherpa, you still didn’t answer my questions. I’ll post them again here:

 

1. Once Hamas is sufficiently “defeated,” does Israel plan on helping the Palestinians rebuild their homes and return to their normal daily lives in Gaza? And if Israel doesn’t cooperate in doing so, would you consider that a grievous problem?

 

2. What are Israel’s short-term and long-term plans for ensuring that the humanitarian needs (food, water, shelter, health care, etc.) of Gazans are met, particularly as they are confined in Rafah?

 

I’m making a strong claim that Israel is guilty of ethnic cleansing and genocide in Gaza, but I’m also trying to give you every opportunity to refute such a claim.

 

On 2/14/2024 at 3:05 PM, Pokebball said:

You own your words. Why the combative reply?

 

I'd be more comfortable with, since you're asking, accuracy.

 

I already explained why I chose my words in a previous post. I do agree with you, however, on the importance of language precision. That is why I’m amending my “carpet bombing” phrase to a more Bidenesque “over-the-top bombing” phrase. International humanitarian organizations agree with me on the accuracy of this characterization. The IDF doesn’t, of course, but they’re not exactly impartial here.

 

On 2/14/2024 at 4:30 PM, yall said:

I'll stop with the insinuating then; it's antisemitism.

 

Surely you are aware of the distinction between anti-Semitism and anti-Zionism?? And while we’re playing around with labels…can I call anyone not empathetic to the ethnic cleansing and genocide of Gazans a sociopath and an Islamophobe?

[yall]

1 hour ago, ComradeKayAdams said:

 

With all due respect, Sherpa, you still didn’t answer my questions. I’ll post them again here:

 

1. Once Hamas is sufficiently “defeated,” does Israel plan on helping the Palestinians rebuild their homes and return to their normal daily lives in Gaza? And if Israel doesn’t cooperate in doing so, would you consider that a grievous problem?

 

2. What are Israel’s short-term and long-term plans for ensuring that the humanitarian needs (food, water, shelter, health care, etc.) of Gazans are met, particularly as they are confined in Rafah?

 

I’m making a strong claim that Israel is guilty of ethnic cleansing and genocide in Gaza, but I’m also trying to give you every opportunity to refute such a claim.

 

 

I already explained why I chose my words in a previous post. I do agree with you, however, on the importance of language precision. That is why I’m amending my “carpet bombing” phrase to a more Bidenesque “over-the-top bombing” phrase. International humanitarian organizations agree with me on the accuracy of this characterization. The IDF doesn’t, of course, but they’re not exactly impartial here.

 

 

Surely you are aware of the distinction between anti-Semitism and anti-Zionism?? And while we’re playing around with labels…can I call anyone not empathetic to the ethnic cleansing and genocide of Gazans a sociopath and an Islamophobe?

I am, and you can. But it doesn't make you right.

 

It's war, and one not started by Israel. When most of your neighbors have the stated goal of your destruction, this can't be a surprising nor unwarranted outcome.

 

When you elect a government that is effectively a terrorist group and allow them to use your mosques and hospitals as staging grounds for attacks and holding centers for hostages you lose any moral high ground.

[All_Pro_Bills]

5 minutes ago, yall said:

I am, and you can. But it doesn't make you right.

 

It's war, and one not started by Israel. When most of your neighbors have the stated goal of your destruction, this can't be a surprising nor unwarranted outcome.

 

When you elect a government that is effectively a terrorist group and allow them to use your mosques and hospitals as staging grounds for attacks and holding centers for hostages you lose any moral high ground.

I seriously doubt that Hamas rules with "the consent of the people".  You might also want to consider ultra-right orthodox Jews share a similar desire to eliminate their neighbors. 

[yall]

14 minutes ago, All_Pro_Bills said:

I seriously doubt that Hamas rules with "the consent of the people".  You might also want to consider ultra-right orthodox Jews share a similar desire to eliminate their neighbors. 

I e openly stated that for an eventual peaceful resolution Israel needs to do their part which includes reigning in settlers and work towards a two state solution, something the Palestinians keep rejecting in favor of continued violence.

 

As far as consent of the people, it's true that Hamas won control via plurality not majority, but you cannot ignore the fact that the population has allowed them to openly operate for years and provide support under the guide of opposing them (just look at how the UN reps there were "shocked" to find a base under their building or how the "journalists" were actively participating in 10/7).

 

 

Just now, yall said:

I've openly stated that for an eventual peaceful resolution Israel needs to do their part which includes reigning in settlers and work towards a two state solution, something the Palestinians keep rejecting in favor of continued violence.

 

As far as consent of the people, it's true that Hamas won control via plurality not majority, but you cannot ignore the fact that the population has allowed them to openly operate for years and provide support under the guide of opposing them (just look at how the UN reps there were "shocked" to find a base under their building or how the "journalists" were actively participating in 10/7).

 

 

 

[sherpa]

2 hours ago, ComradeKayAdams said:

 

With all due respect, Sherpa, you still didn’t answer my questions. I’ll post them again here:

 

1. Once Hamas is sufficiently “defeated,” does Israel plan on helping the Palestinians rebuild their homes and return to their normal daily lives in Gaza? And if Israel doesn’t cooperate in doing so, would you consider that a grievous problem?

 

2. What are Israel’s short-term and long-term plans for ensuring that the humanitarian needs (food, water, shelter, health care, etc.) of Gazans are met, particularly as they are confined in Rafah?

 

I’m making a strong claim that Israel is guilty of ethnic cleansing and genocide in Gaza, but I’m also trying to give you every opportunity to refute such a claim.

 

First, I think your claims of genocide are unfounded.

Urban war is really ugly, but that's what they have chosen.

 

Hamas has had 17 years to use funds and international aid to build a humane situation.

They used those years and assets to build an underground weapons storage area to attack Israel.

Self defense is determined by threat.

I have no problem with Israel destroying what is a labyrinth designed to attack it and support/hide the aggressors.

 

Your two questions are best directed at Israel, after the current threat is negated.

I have no idea.

Regarding question 2, they have attempted to normalize life there, including employing thousands of Palestinians in the successful Israeli economy.

Hamas wanted none of that, thus their barbarism.

 

I believe that they will eradicate Hamas' offensive capability, ie., destroy their unguided rockets launched at Israeli citizens, and if Hezbollah gets offensive in the north, at the Lebanon border, they will move against that threat.

If that happens, it is a much bigger deal.

 

Either way, the first thing to do when attacked is to defend and eliminate the threat.

Longer term is unknown, but if the Palestinians want to live in a peaceful circumstance, they need to stop supporting terrorist regimes intent on killing Israelis.

That is the start.

[Pokebball]

2 hours ago, ComradeKayAdams said:

 

With all due respect, Sherpa, you still didn’t answer my questions. I’ll post them again here:

 

1. Once Hamas is sufficiently “defeated,” does Israel plan on helping the Palestinians rebuild their homes and return to their normal daily lives in Gaza? And if Israel doesn’t cooperate in doing so, would you consider that a grievous problem?

 

2. What are Israel’s short-term and long-term plans for ensuring that the humanitarian needs (food, water, shelter, health care, etc.) of Gazans are met, particularly as they are confined in Rafah?

 

I’m making a strong claim that Israel is guilty of ethnic cleansing and genocide in Gaza, but I’m also trying to give you every opportunity to refute such a claim.

 

 

I already explained why I chose my words in a previous post. I do agree with you, however, on the importance of language precision. That is why I’m amending my “carpet bombing” phrase to a more Bidenesque “over-the-top bombing” phrase. International humanitarian organizations agree with me on the accuracy of this characterization. The IDF doesn’t, of course, but they’re not exactly impartial here.

 

 

Surely you are aware of the distinction between anti-Semitism and anti-Zionism?? And while we’re playing around with labels…can I call anyone not empathetic to the ethnic cleansing and genocide of Gazans a sociopath and an Islamophobe?

Appreciate your correction. Carpet bombing, of course, is quite the opposite of precision bombing, from quite an opposite strategy. The fact that Israel isn't carpeting bombing supports their strategy of more precision.

[Tommy Callahan]

 

 

 

[AlBUNDY4TDS]

11 minutes ago, Tommy Callahan said:

 

 

 

Did they change the definition of terrorist?

[yall]

18 minutes ago, AlBUNDY4TDS said:

Did they change the definition of terrorist?

The clarification is even more comical.

 

"When I said Hamas is not a terrorist organization for us I meant the UN doesn't have them on a list of designated terrorists."

 

Um, yeah we get it. That doesn't make it somehow better. 😂

[Tommy Callahan]

https://twitter.com/OliLondonTV/status/1758852333318930576?t=HlZmsS5d-2VruXfK6Py7eA&s=19

 

 

 

 

Edited February 17 by Tommy Callahan
Hmm. Won't embed

[Tommy Callahan]

Ngo's helping with the migrant maps and transportation.

[B-Man]

 

 

Spineless Joe Biden is inching toward a full betrayal of Israel

New York Post, by Michael Goodwin

 

Is there a Margaret Thatcher in the house who can help stiffen Joe Biden’s spine? The late British prime minister, in a 1990 phone call during the early days of the first Gulf war, famously told a hesitant President George H. W. Bush that it “was no time to go wobbly.” 

 

 

https://nypost.com/2024/02/17/opinion/spineless-joe-biden-is-inching-toward-a-full-betrayal-of-israel/

[Tommy Callahan]

 

[Justice]

On 2/14/2024 at 1:10 PM, sherpa said:

 

Simply absurd.

Carpet bombing?

Where did you ever get this?

The Israelis have never done this in their history, and certainly not here.

 

The "siege on Gaza" has been Hamas.

They are the entity that took all of those assets and did nothing other than build an underground military assault capability designed to launce offensive operations and hide when the predictable response came.

I mean one of their politicians did say something along the lines of ‘we do not care about precision or accuracy’. And maybe they’re not carpet bombing but they certainly are wiring several buildings and bringing them all down at once. Some of their soldiers love posting their work on SM. 
 

On 2/14/2024 at 12:56 PM, ComradeKayAdams said:

 

But again…what does it mean to “eliminate Hamas,” exactly? Is there a list of top names whom the IDF needs to assassinate? A percentage of members from some official Hamas roster that need to be killed? 

 

And are these IDF tactics on the urban Gaza battlefield anything close to optimal?? Both the number (30,500+) and the percentage (~87%) of civilian casualties are ridiculously high (source: Euro-Med HRM, February 3 report). Many of the hostages have even perished due to the carpet bombing.

 

And what is this lengthy siege on Gaza doing for future Hamas recruitment?? Or for the long-term security of Israeli citizens abroad, for that matter? Or for Israel’s diplomatic standing in the world? Or for their economic vitality? So it’s clearly in the best interest of Israel to bring this conflict to a swift conclusion. However, it’s also difficult to bring a mission to a conclusion if the mission objectives aren’t clearly defined!

 

Then again…maybe the mission objectives were clear all along? Maybe the intent was land seizure and eventual Israeli citizen settlement of Gaza, with the hope that the concerned international community would take in all the Palestinian refugees? None of you here, after all, challenged me on my accusations of ethnic cleansing and genocide.

 

 

Please stop with these ridiculous insinuations of anti-Semitism. They are never get-out-of-jail-free cards for ethnic cleansing and genocide.

 

The purpose of protesting is to effect change. What good does protesting Putin do? Do you think he cares what the outside world thinks? The United States and Israel are democracies that, in theory at least, are responsive to their respective citizenry (in practice, admittedly, the U.S. functions as a corporate oligarchy while Israel is a satellite state of American imperialism that helps it maintain Middle Eastern hegemony).

They said they were gonna destroy Hamas and they meant it. Judging by the amounts of babies and children they have eliminated they’re even getting rid of future members. After this war there will be no more Gaza. It’s uninhabitable. They won’t even have to force the remaining citizens to leave. They’ll have to leave on their own. To where I have no clue but I bet anything Israel has some plans in mind. This is a land grab. Israel will occupy Gaza. 

 

I’ve been to protests and I’ve know plenty of ppl that have been to protests and every single one of us marched side by side with plenty of Jewish people. Anti-semitism is a card that’s being used way too much in this occasion. 
 

And yes protests happen here because the US is funding the war. Pretty obvious. 
 

On 2/14/2024 at 1:12 PM, Tommy Callahan said:

How many Palestinians live in gaza? 

 

Even with the high and debated numbers , it's still no place near genocide or ethnic cleansing.  For that, see the congo/Ethiopia conflicts, unghars/Muslims  in china.   

 

Oct 7th was called a genocide by many. I’ve heard tons of statements from Israeli politicians calling to wipe out the entire Strip and the WB too. Call it what you want but this is a massacre. I’m desensitized to it now. That’s how bad all the images are. Started out in tears watching them and now nothing. 
 

On 2/14/2024 at 4:30 PM, yall said:

I'll stop with the insinuating then; it's antisemitism.

 

 

Netanyahu called the people of Gaza Amalekites. You have a name for that kind of rhetoric?
 

On 2/16/2024 at 10:39 AM, sherpa said:

 

First, I think your claims of genocide are unfounded.

Urban war is really ugly, but that's what they have chosen.

 

Hamas has had 17 years to use funds and international aid to build a humane situation.

They used those years and assets to build an underground weapons storage area to attack Israel.

Self defense is determined by threat.

I have no problem with Israel destroying what is a labyrinth designed to attack it and support/hide the aggressors.

 

Your two questions are best directed at Israel, after the current threat is negated.

I have no idea.

Regarding question 2, they have attempted to normalize life there, including employing thousands of Palestinians in the successful Israeli economy.

Hamas wanted none of that, thus their barbarism.

 

I believe that they will eradicate Hamas' offensive capability, ie., destroy their unguided rockets launched at Israeli citizens, and if Hezbollah gets offensive in the north, at the Lebanon border, they will move against that threat.

If that happens, it is a much bigger deal.

 

Either way, the first thing to do when attacked is to defend and eliminate the threat.

Longer term is unknown, but if the Palestinians want to live in a peaceful circumstance, they need to stop supporting terrorist regimes intent on killing Israelis.

That is the start.

Only gonna respond to how Hamas utilized their funds and the only thing I can say is WTF were they thinking? They must think outsiders will eventually step in and it will be a wide scale war involving many nations. Them dumbasses might finally learn nobody is coming to help them. Nobody wants to be the next country “freed”. 
 

On 2/17/2024 at 10:00 AM, Tommy Callahan said:

Ngo's helping with the migrant maps and transportation.

 

If we use this rationale then we should defund everyone that has corrupt members? No funding for politicians, police, places of worship, I mean ***** just about any group ever assembled.  

[Andy1]

Hamas started this war and Israel will decide when it ends. After this war is over, Palestinians need to focus on building a society that provides a better future for their children. The delusional idea of eliminating Israel must end. Muslim leaders will need to speak about peace. It’s difficult but can it be done if the people desire for a better, different future. Cambodia, Vietnam, Japan and other nations have experienced horrific wars and turned towards peace afterwards. Nationhood will never happen without peace. If they don’t do that, the dead end cycle of violence will continue.