Virginia requiring online checking of age

[Punching Bag]

https://lis.virginia.gov/cgi-bin/legp604.exe?231+sum+SB1515

 

It provides no mechanism for checking age "leaving it to providers" so companies are very vulnerable to lawsuits with burden of proof much less in civil courts.
 

https://www.vpm.org/news/2023-06-26/virginia-porn-law-age-verification

 

  Quote

Quote

 

SB 1515 Harmful materials; civil liability for publishing or distributing to minors on the Internet.

Civil liability for publishing or distributing material harmful to minors on the Internet. Creates a civil cause of action for any commercial entity that knowingly or intentionally publishes or distributes on the Internet material harmful to minors, as defined in the bill, and that does not take reasonable steps to verify that the age of a person attempting to access such material harmful to minors is 18 years of age or older. The bill also clarifies the definition of "sexual conduct" so that it is neutral regarding sexual orientation for the purpose of crimes related to prohibited sales and loans to juveniles.

 

 

It reminds me of what happened in 50s with banning of comic books 

https://www.washingtonpost.com/made-by-history/2022/10/17/book-ban-comic-books-panic/

 

 

Quote

This was the case in the 1950s when a movement arose to ban comic books. At its center was a respected child psychologist pushing wild accusations about the dangers of illustrated literature for children. His analysis was misguided, his evidence misleading or fabricated, and his concerns about children’s literature overblown, but Americans bought his claims anyway. This history serves as a cautionary tale, as graphic novels once again draw the ire of book banners.

 

 

Some companies have said (and are already doing it) they would prevent access in Commonwealth of Virginia.

Edited June 29, 2023 by Limeaid
updated title

[ExiledInIllinois]

Ok... I came here thinking that they were checking the ages of Veterans. I was wondering why they didn't have all their patient info. 😕 

[Mr Info]

For porn. Shouldn’t the title be cleaned up? …made myself laugh.

[Punching Bag]

48 minutes ago, Mr Info said:

For porn. Shouldn’t the title be cleaned up? …made myself laugh.

 

It is not impacting just porn.

 

You live in Virginia.  Is that where you are seeing impact?

[LeviF]

1 hour ago, Mr Info said:

For porn. Shouldn’t the title be cleaned up? …made myself laugh.

Oh no can’t make 12 year olds accessing porn as easy as clicking “yes I’m 18” oh nooooooooo

[Punching Bag]

4 hours ago, LeviF said:

Oh no can’t make 12 year olds accessing porn as easy as clicking “yes I’m 18” oh nooooooooo

 

Does not make a difference since most of the porn is overseas and VA laywers will get them in court or get courts in their country make them pay as long as they use a overseas credit card processes.

The real risk is to them is low unless they have offices in Virginia.

Edited June 30, 2023 by Limeaid

[LeviF]

4 minutes ago, Limeaid said:

 

Does not make a difference since most of the porn is overseas and VA laywers will get them in court or get courts in their country make them pay as long as they use a overseas credit card processes.

The real risk is to them unless they have offices in Virginia.

What

[4merper4mer]

3 hours ago, Mr Info said:

For porn. Shouldn’t the title be cleaned up? …made myself laugh.

It’s about stuff on the internet, not porn.  I’m not sure if it applies to magazine stands where porn is sold.

[Mr Info]

9 hours ago, 4merper4mer said:

It’s about stuff on the internet, not porn.  I’m not sure if it applies to magazine stands where porn is sold.

The 2nd link title in the OP states: “Virginia to become latest state to require age verification for online porn”

Perhaps it also applies to magazines but are any still published?

 

[Johnny Hammersticks]

13 hours ago, 4merper4mer said:

It’s about stuff on the internet, not porn.  I’m not sure if it applies to magazine stands where porn is sold.

What’s a magazine?

[LeviF]

5 hours ago, Mr Info said:

The 2nd link title in the OP states: “Virginia to become latest state to require age verification for online porn”

Perhaps it also applies to magazines but are any still published?

 

In NY they ID for those kinds of magazines. 

[Punching Bag]

5 hours ago, Mr Info said:

The 2nd link title in the OP states: “Virginia to become latest state to require age verification for online porn”

Perhaps it also applies to magazines but are any still published?

 

 

I went to a game which was not porn and it was blocked because I was in Virginia.

"Contact your representative and request device based verification to be allowed."

[4merper4mer]

1 hour ago, Johnny Hammersticks said:

What’s a magazine?

It is like a flimsy book.  They used to have them about all sorts of topics but now they are just celebrity gossip and porn.  Sometimes those two overlap.

 

Anyway I don’t understand why they’d target the internet to stop porn and leave these magazine and DVD  hooligans alone.  It’s not like there is a lot of porn on the internet is there? 

5 hours ago, Mr Info said:

The 2nd link title in the OP states: “Virginia to become latest state to require age verification for online porn”

Perhaps it also applies to magazines but are any still published?

 

Online porn?  Like raunchy music videos on YouTube?

[The Avenger]

2 hours ago, Johnny Hammersticks said:

What’s a magazine?

If you print out text and still images from a website and staple them all together so you can read them like a book you'll have something that approximates a magazine. Remember - it will have no audio or embedded video and links won't work, so it'll be pretty lame...

[That's No Moon]

Kids already know what a VPN is and how to use it.  They've spent the last 3 years learning how to get around school-based security and web monitoring.

 

A 6 year old in VA shot his teacher during class. Direct me to the Legislature's effort to fix that. Protect the children though. 🙄

Edited June 30, 2023 by That's No Moon

[QCity]

7 hours ago, That's No Moon said:

Kids already know what a VPN is and how to use it.  They've spent the last 3 years learning how to get around school-based security and web monitoring.

 

 

 

That's really what makes this so laughable. You can't have boomers creating laws regulating technology because they don't understand technology past pushing the power button and then yelling on social media.

[Punching Bag]

1 hour ago, QCity said:

 

That's really what makes this so laughable. You can't have boomers creating laws regulating technology because they don't understand technology past pushing the power button and then yelling on social media.

 

They do not care how it works or whether it will work.  They are like the leaders of torch leaders who just stir up trouble so they can lead the mob.  If it does not work it needs to go further with legal penalties, etc.

[sherpa]

10 hours ago, That's No Moon said:

 

A 6 year old in VA shot his teacher during class. Direct me to the Legislature's effort to fix that. Protect the children though. 🙄

 

The mother was charged, under existing Virginia law, with felony child neglect and recklessly leaving a fire arm to endanger a child.

[LeviF]

Lot of pushback against the idea that maybe 12 year olds shouldn’t have unlimited access to hardcore pornography. 
 

Really makes you think. 

[That's No Moon]

6 hours ago, sherpa said:

 

The mother was charged, under existing Virginia law, with felony child neglect and recklessly leaving a fire arm to endanger a child.

Yup. And that "protects the children" in what way? The word protect implies taking action that will prevent harm. What Virginia has done is punishment. Punishment and protection are not the same thing.

2 hours ago, LeviF said:

Lot of pushback against the idea that maybe 12 year olds shouldn’t have unlimited access to hardcore pornography. 
 

Really makes you think. 

I'm not pushing back that they shouldn't be doing that. Of course they shouldn't. I'm pushing back that what Virginia has done will have any impact at all. Also, I'm against any time the government feels like it needs to step in and parent people. Do kids under 12 have to have phones? Do kids have to have unmonitored computer time? No in both cases but people can't be bothered to parent properly so it's now the government's job to do it for them. Which they do poorly as in this case.

Edited July 1, 2023 by That's No Moon

[ExiledInIllinois]

Why do we even have age limits? Where does that come from? 😏 

[LeviF]

1 hour ago, That's No Moon said:

Yup. And that "protects the children" in what way? The word protect implies taking action that will prevent harm. What Virginia has done is punishment. Punishment and protection are not the same thing.

I'm not pushing back that they shouldn't be doing that. Of course they shouldn't. I'm pushing back that what Virginia has done will have any impact at all. Also, I'm against any time the government feels like it needs to step in and parent people. Do kids under 12 have to have phones? Do kids have to have unmonitored computer time? No in both cases but people can't be bothered to parent properly so it's now the government's job to do it for them. Which they do poorly as in this case.

Did you feel the same way about the restrictions on the advertising of cigarettes?

Just now, ExiledInIllinois said:

Why do we even have age limits? Where does that come from? 😏 

Never ask:

a man his salary 

a woman her age

a french philosopher what petition he was signing in the 1970s

 

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/French_petition_against_age_of_consent_laws

 

Quote

Many of the signatories – including, but not limited to Foucault, Danet and Hocquenghem – later argued in favor of legalizing sex with children, claiming a child can consent - "listen to what the child says and give it a certain credence. This notion of consent is a trap, in any case. What is sure is that the legal form of an intersexual consent is nonsense. No one signs a contract before making love."

 

[Punching Bag]

34 minutes ago, ExiledInIllinois said:

Why do we even have age limits? Where does that come from? 😏 

 

Same place where a man could (theoretically now but still required to register) be drafted but cannot legally buy alcohol.

Government does not need to make sense.

[That's No Moon]

37 minutes ago, LeviF said:

Did you feel the same way about the restrictions on the advertising of cigarettes?

First, that's not the same argument. If it were I would argue that restricting advertising has nothing to do with directly restricting access. 

 

Second, we don't catch kids with cigarettes anymore. We catch them with vapes of all varieties. Those aren't advertised either and their direct access is controlled yet kids still have it and know how to get it.

 

My point with all of this is you aren't going to stop people from getting access to this with this basic of a regulation. Kids already know how to evade tons of stuff online and there is probably already a host of sites giving you instructions on how to evade this law. At the end of the day it lands on the doorstep of the parents. When I have a parent scream and curse in my face for taking away their kids school issued laptop because we caught them disabling our security using a very specific EIGHT step process they'd found in the internet it doesn't give me tons of faith in this sort of law actually working the way it was intended. Meanwhile nobody wants to do squat about kids making their OWN material and air dropping it out in a school bus. God forbid we take their phones.

 

 

 

[LeviF]

15 minutes ago, That's No Moon said:

First, that's not the same argument. If it were I would argue that restricting advertising has nothing to do with directly restricting access. 

 

Second, we don't catch kids with cigarettes anymore. We catch them with vapes of all varieties. Those aren't advertised either and their direct access is controlled yet kids still have it and know how to get it.

 

My point with all of this is you aren't going to stop people from getting access to this with this basic of a regulation. Kids already know how to evade tons of stuff online and there is probably already a host of sites giving you instructions on how to evade this law. At the end of the day it lands on the doorstep of the parents. When I have a parent scream and curse in my face for taking away their kids school issued laptop because we caught them disabling our security using a very specific EIGHT step process they'd found in the internet it doesn't give me tons of faith in this sort of law actually working the way it was intended. Meanwhile nobody wants to do squat about kids making their OWN material and air dropping it out in a school bus. God forbid we take their phones.

 

 

 

Look, we’re on the same side w/r/t parenting and even the relative efficacy of these kinds of laws. But companies like Mindgeek need to be held accountable at some level because of not only how they ignore  obscenity age restrictions but also because they have maintained CSAM on their platforms knowingly and done nothing about it. 
 

We already restrict access to all sorts of things that somehow end up in the hands of those we don’t want to have it. I fail to see how pornography should be any different, and making it harder to access is good, actually.