aristocrat Posted February 12, 2023 Share Posted February 12, 2023 3 minutes ago, redtail hawk said: geez, yes. This has nothing to do with the argument to vax or not. Are you an audiophile? Audiophiles constantly work to eliminate background noise from their equipment, recordings. In a similar manner, epidemiologists and public health experts try to remove background infections that worsen population outcomes. Why is this so hard to understand. what I am saying is that the vaccine is not the end all be all solution to the virus. It’s part of the solution but not the only one. Now if they get the vax stop transmission of Covid along with getting sick and death then it will be the solution. Until then tackle it different ways. Infection based immunity being part of that. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe Ferguson forever Posted February 12, 2023 Share Posted February 12, 2023 (edited) 12 minutes ago, BillsFanNC said: Thanks for confirming that you're a hack. Again. Are you going to actually read it if he does? You're a moron. how bout contributing some actual science to support your positions. And I don't mean economists masquerading as clinicians or early "hydroxy" studies. and while your at it, please illustrate where bhatt's work had any significant impact or even potential impact on the pandemic. Edited February 12, 2023 by redtail hawk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillsFanNC Posted February 12, 2023 Share Posted February 12, 2023 1 hour ago, redtail hawk said: What scientific organizations supported mass protests at the height of the pandemic? Just because other stupid people tried to subvert the goals of a temporary lockdown does not make it a bad strategy. I give you your hypocritical, delusional and moronic colleagues. Any doctor saying what's supported in this article should have been stripped of their license. But.....Science! https://time.com/5848212/doctors-supporting-protests/ Does attending an approved protest lower expression of ACE2 receptors on airway epithelial cells, doc? “If people were to understand that racism, and all of the social and political and economic inequalities that racism creates, ultimately harms people’s health,” Boyd says, they would see that “protest is a profound public health intervention, because it allows us to finally address and end forms of inequality.” Positions like Boyd’s, which are widely shared in the medical community, may strike some people as hypocritical. Why, in the middle of a pandemic, after months of telling people to stay indoors to stop the spread of COVID-19, are doctors encouraging thousands of people to gather? The answer, for many in health care, is simple: Racism is a public-health issue that long predates coronavirus. Without action, they say, it will postdate it, too. 5 minutes ago, redtail hawk said: how bout contributing some actual science to support your positions. And I don't mean economists masquerading as clinicians or early "hydroxy" studies. The next time you contribute actual science will be the first. You haven't a clue about virology. You're a political hack. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe Ferguson forever Posted February 12, 2023 Share Posted February 12, 2023 1 minute ago, BillsFanNC said: I give you your hypocritical, delusional and moronic colleagues. Any doctor saying what's supported in this article should have been stripped of their license. But.....Science! https://time.com/5848212/doctors-supporting-protests/ Does attending an approved protest lower expression of ACE2 receptors on airway epithelial cells, doc? “If people were to understand that racism, and all of the social and political and economic inequalities that racism creates, ultimately harms people’s health,” Boyd says, they would see that “protest is a profound public health intervention, because it allows us to finally address and end forms of inequality.” Positions like Boyd’s, which are widely shared in the medical community, may strike some people as hypocritical. Why, in the middle of a pandemic, after months of telling people to stay indoors to stop the spread of COVID-19, are doctors encouraging thousands of people to gather? The answer, for many in health care, is simple: Racism is a public-health issue that long predates coronavirus. Without action, they say, it will postdate it, too. asked and answered. Read. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillsFanNC Posted February 12, 2023 Share Posted February 12, 2023 Just now, redtail hawk said: asked and answered. Read. No you didnt. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe Ferguson forever Posted February 12, 2023 Share Posted February 12, 2023 (edited) "and again, the actions of a few stupid, misguided people does not invalidate a control strategy. Agree, it certainly doesn't help. How many 1000's of people participated in the protests? How many millions remain unvaxed. Equating the "contributions" of the two is ridiculous." devolving into personal attacks in an argument is a sensitive indicator of losing that argument. 10 minutes ago, BillsFanNC said: The next time you contribute actual science will be the first. You haven't a clue about virology. You're a political hack. citing Nature or NEJM isn't valid but Time and some discredited study funded by vested interests by an actual political hack is? righty o chief! Edited February 12, 2023 by redtail hawk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leh-nerd skin-erd Posted February 12, 2023 Share Posted February 12, 2023 1 hour ago, ChiGoose said: Nah, I’m right here. You’re just looking for reasons to side against rationality so you’re bringing up stuff to deflect from the basic fact that everyone should get COVID vaccines and boosters. Me too, Chi, I’m here just discussing basic human nature. It’s easier to pretend none of the rest of what went on in the world matters, but history tells us that pushing back against the “it’s for your own good, trust us and ignore that other stuff above your pay grade” is actually a good thing. It’s not perfect, and there can be pain associated with considering the harsh realities of life, but it matters. I also don’t think everyone should get the COVID vaxx/booster, I think people should consult with their medical provider and consider risk/reward scenarios. Finally, I think it’s obvious that one should not blindly trust in their general practitioner. I think dialogue is important, and we need only look at the opioid crisis to understand that even well-intentioned medical professionals can change the trajectory of your life in a hurry. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillsFanNC Posted February 12, 2023 Share Posted February 12, 2023 (edited) 7 minutes ago, redtail hawk said: "and again, the actions of a few stupid, misguided people does not invalidate a control strategy. Agree, it certainly doesn't help. How many 1000's of people participated in the protests? How many millions remain unvaxed. Equating the "contributions" of the two is ridiculous." devolving into personal attacks in an argument is a sensitive indicator of losing that argument. citing nature or NEJM isn't valid but Time is? righty o chief! Thousands of doctors signed off using their professional credentials to support protests during lockdowns. Theyre hacks just like you are. You don't get to hand wave that away and not be considered a hack. https://www.cnn.com/2020/06/05/health/health-care-open-letter-protests-coronavirus-trnd/index.html The letter – which went on to draw more than 1,200 signatures – focuses on techniques to reduce harm to people protesting racial injustice. “We created the letter in response to emerging narratives that seemed to malign demonstrations as risky for the public health because of Covid-19,” according to the letter writers, many of whom are part of the University of Washington’s Division of Allergy and Infectious Diseases. “Instead, we wanted to present a narrative that prioritizes opposition to racism as vital to the public health, including the epidemic response. We believe that the way forward is not to suppress protests in the name of public health but to respond to protesters demands in the name of public health, thereby addressing multiple public health crises.” Edited February 12, 2023 by BillsFanNC Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe Ferguson forever Posted February 12, 2023 Share Posted February 12, 2023 2 minutes ago, BillsFanNC said: Thousands of doctors signed off using their professional credentials to support protests during lockdowns. Theyre hacks just like you are. You don't get to hand wave that away and not be considered a hack. https://www.cnn.com/2020/06/05/health/health-care-open-letter-protests-coronavirus-trnd/index.html The letter – which went on to draw more than 1,200 signatures – focuses on techniques to reduce harm to people protesting racial injustice. “We created the letter in response to emerging narratives that seemed to malign demonstrations as risky for the public health because of Covid-19,” according to the letter writers, many of whom are part of the University of Washington’s Division of Allergy and Infectious Diseases. “Instead, we wanted to present a narrative that prioritizes opposition to racism as vital to the public health, including the epidemic response. We believe that the way forward is not to suppress protests in the name of public health but to respond to protesters demands in the name of public health, thereby addressing multiple public health crises.” This letter is signed by 1,288 public health professionals, infectious diseases professionals, and community stakeholders. there are almost 1 million US physicians alone. Many more ".community stakeholders". Even if the signings were limited to physicians (which they weren't) that's 0.1 % Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leh-nerd skin-erd Posted February 12, 2023 Share Posted February 12, 2023 2 hours ago, redtail hawk said: What scientific organizations supported mass protests at the height of the pandemic? Just because other stupid people tried to subvert the goals of a temporary lockdown does not make it a bad strategy. I think the scientific community as a whole, badly failed the population. With Faucci as the chief science guy, I would think a major press conference appealing to protestors that their decisions to gather and huddle together during a pandemic likely costs tens/hundreds of thousands of lives if not more. I believe he should have been shouting from the tree tops that the actions being taken were killings people in massive numbers. I feel like there is more passion here on this dopey message board than I ever saw out of him, or most dem leaders locking $&@$ down. That said, the biggest issue was the cohesive strategy and messaging from Dems while the pharmaceutical industry and Trump admin was developing a vaccine. Where unity would have helped, they chose to spread disinformation. People can see the disconnect between what they are being told to do and what those with the most up-to-date data are doing. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe Ferguson forever Posted February 12, 2023 Share Posted February 12, 2023 9 minutes ago, leh-nerd skin-erd said: I also don’t think everyone should get the COVID vaxx/booster, I think people should consult with their medical provider and consider risk/reward scenarios. but only for themselves, right (and even then, the calculus is clear to me)? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillsFanNC Posted February 12, 2023 Share Posted February 12, 2023 2 minutes ago, redtail hawk said: This letter is signed by 1,288 public health professionals, infectious diseases professionals, and community stakeholders. there are almost 1 million US physicians alone. Many more ".community stakeholders". Even if the signings were limited to physicians (which they weren't) that's 0.1 % So if 1200 workers in cardiac health, among them doctors, nurses, researchers etc. signed a letter advocating that its good for heart attack survivors to go ahead and guzzle down all the saturated fat they want as long as they are attending racial justice protests and that story was picked up by CNN and Time magazine.... No biggie, right? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe Ferguson forever Posted February 12, 2023 Share Posted February 12, 2023 1 minute ago, leh-nerd skin-erd said: I think the scientific community as a whole, badly failed the population. With Faucci as the chief science guy, I would think a major press conference appealing to protestors that their decisions to gather and huddle together during a pandemic likely costs tens/hundreds of thousands of lives if not more. I believe he should have been shouting from the tree tops that the actions being taken were killings people in massive numbers. I feel like there is more passion here on this dopey message board than I ever saw out of him, or most dem leaders locking $&@$ down. That said, the biggest issue was the cohesive strategy and messaging from Dems while the pharmaceutical industry and Trump admin was developing a vaccine. Where unity would have helped, they chose to spread disinformation. People can see the disconnect between what they are being told to do and what those with the most up-to-date data are doing. vax refusal cost many more lives and suffering than the protests. That said, two wrongs don't make a right. btw, Fauci was employed by trump at the time. Do you think he'd approve of that rooftop shouting? 1 minute ago, BillsFanNC said: So if 1200 workers in cardiac health, among them doctors, nurses, researchers etc. signed a letter advocating that its good for heart attack survivors to go ahead and guzzle down all the saturated fat they want as long as they are attending racial justice protests and that story was picked up by CNN and Time magazine.... No biggie, right? not in the overall picture. they are outliers and a tiny percentage. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leh-nerd skin-erd Posted February 12, 2023 Share Posted February 12, 2023 3 minutes ago, redtail hawk said: but only for themselves, right (and even then, the calculus is clear to me)? People are different. Some are selfish, sone selfless. In the end, it’s usually about people acting on behalf of themselves and their families. I’m vaxxed and boosted, but don’t think the guy who chose a different path is any more/less noble than I. To be honest, I think some of the screaming pro-vaxx people were often the less noble. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe Ferguson forever Posted February 12, 2023 Share Posted February 12, 2023 2 minutes ago, leh-nerd skin-erd said: People are different. Some are selfish, sone selfless. In the end, it’s usually about people acting on behalf of themselves and their families. I’m vaxxed and boosted, but don’t think the guy who chose a different path is any more/less noble than I. To be honest, I think some of the screaming pro-vaxx people were often the less noble. agreed. that's why mandates were needed. How often have you seen parents up in arms over MMR and polio mandates for school entrance? This is a new phenomenon which was purposefully injected into our culture for political purposes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leh-nerd skin-erd Posted February 12, 2023 Share Posted February 12, 2023 2 minutes ago, redtail hawk said: vax refusal cost many more lives and suffering than the protests. That said, two wrongs don't make a right. btw, Fauci was employed by trump at the time. Do you think he'd approve of that rooftop shouting? not in the overall picture. they are outliers and a tiny percentage. Why are you giving Fauci a pass? He had the nation’s ear for a sustained period of time. I don’t believe I’m suggesting anything controversial here, these issues are clear and obvious. If gathering in numbers greater than 3 on a Tuesday in Buffalo was so frigging dangerous to cause widespread death and disease, wtf did 10-15,000 people gathering on a consistent repetitive basis do to our nation’s collective well-being? 1 minute ago, redtail hawk said: agreed. that's why mandates were needed. How often have you seen parents up in arms over MMR and polio mandates for school entrance? This is a new phenomenon which was purposefully injected into our culture for political purposes. …and it comes back to there were mandates for the compliant and for others, mandates were optional. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillsFanNC Posted February 12, 2023 Share Posted February 12, 2023 Just now, leh-nerd skin-erd said: Why are you giving Fauci a pass? He had the nation’s ear for a sustained period of time. I don’t believe I’m suggesting anything controversial here, these issues are clear and obvious. If gathering in numbers greater than 3 on a Tuesday in Buffalo was so frigging dangerous to cause widespread death and disease, wtf did 10-15,000 people gathering on a consistent repetitive basis do to our nation’s collective well-being? Doesn't matter. They and the medical professionals who approved of their actions are merely outliers. Because approved protests. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gene Frenkle Posted February 12, 2023 Share Posted February 12, 2023 Keep rationalizing, kitties. Nothing to be afraid of. We got this. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Precision Posted February 12, 2023 Share Posted February 12, 2023 My wife and I were lucky enough to have been vaccinated and boosted with the J&J/Janssen before it was pulled due to blood clot risk. Was that vaccine a win or just an oops? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JDHillFan Posted February 12, 2023 Share Posted February 12, 2023 1 hour ago, redtail hawk said: Of course being healthy lowers your risk. In other news, the sky is blue. who said it doesn't. This piece, in no way, advances your argument. I give credit to trump for pushing vax development but it would have been political malpractice to not. please reference those that said they wouldn't take the vax if trump was prez. I'll steer clear from them. The opinions of stupid people shouldn't color our response to catastrophe. https://www.politico.com/news/2020/09/05/kamala-harris-trump-coronavirus-vaccine-409320 https://www.nytimes.com/2020/09/16/us/politics/biden-trump-coronavirus-vaccine.html https://foreignpolicy.com/2020/09/03/trumps-vaccine-cant-be-trusted/ https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/biden-trump-coronavirus-vaccine/2020/09/16/2ffbea6a-f831-11ea-a275-1a2c2d36e1f1_story.html https://thehill.com/opinion/white-house/563771-guess-who-undermined-public-confidence-in-vaccines/ You will dance around this because it doesn’t fit but we would all do well to steer clear of these people that undermined the miracle vax. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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