Slate tries to debunk “dies suddenly;” fails miserably then calls for a police state

[JaCrispy]

2 hours ago, aristocrat said:

https://www.rollingstone.com/culture/culture-news/doctors-black-lives-matter-protests-times-square-1009487/amp/
 

height of the pandemic this undermined efforts to get the virus under control by being hypocritical.  Two sets of rules. 

Yup- and their justification was that White supremacy was killing more people than Covid…🤣🤣🤣

 

Sorry, but they lost all credibility on that one…How does looting a Target and burning down a burger joint, during a pandemic, save lives? 
 

 

Edited February 12, 2023 by JaCrispy

[JDHillFan]

10 minutes ago, Precision said:

My wife and I were lucky enough to have been vaccinated and boosted with the J&J/Janssen before it was pulled due to blood clot risk. Was that vaccine a win or just an oops?  

Seems very unlikely anyone will answer this one. It’s going to go right on the “too hard” pile. 

[leh-nerd skin-erd]

16 minutes ago, BillsFanNC said:

 

Doesn't matter. They and the medical professionals who approved of their actions are merely outliers. Because approved protests.

 

 

I have talked with so many people about this scenario and still find it fascinating when they attempt to sell a version of the history that never existed. 
 

I had no issues with vaxxing, beyond the fact that it was a very difficult time and I was a bit nervous about the jab.  
 

Up above, Red gives me a thumbs down for suggesting it was a lockdown for the compliant.   There were mass gatherings all over the country for Christs sake, but have a church service on a Sunday?  They sent in the hall monitors. 

[BillsFanNC]

31 minutes ago, redtail hawk said:

vax refusal cost many more lives and suffering than the protests.  That said, two wrongs don't make a right.  btw, Fauci was employed by trump at the time.  Do you think he'd approve of that rooftop shouting?

not in the overall picture.  they are outliers and a tiny percentage.

 

So should time and cnn have had their reporting on doctors saying protests during lockdowns are ok have had the stories labeled or censored as dangerous misinformation on social media or nah?

 

 

[JaCrispy]

2 minutes ago, leh-nerd skin-erd said:

I have talked with so many people about this scenario and still find it fascinating when they attempt to sell a version of the history that never existed. 
 

I had no issues with vaxxing, beyond the fact that it was a very difficult time and I was a bit nervous about the jab.  
 

Up above, Red gives me a thumbs down for suggesting it was a lockdown for the compliant.   There were mass gatherings all over the country for Christs sake, but have a church service on a Sunday?  They sent in the hall monitors. 

Yup- it was very much a political pandemic- between who was allowed to be out and who was allowed to post what about the situation…Imo the whole thing was made a lot worse because people were not being honest about what was really going on…

[JDHillFan]

13 minutes ago, JaCrispy said:

Yup- and their justification was that White supremacy was killing more people than Covid…🤣🤣🤣

 

Sorry, but they lost all credibility on that one…How does looting a Target and burning down a burger joint, during a pandemic, save lives? 
 

 

https://coloradosun.com/2020/06/30/police-protests-coronavirus-spread/

 

Here’s a classic!

 

“Black Lives Matter protests may have slowed overall spread of coronavirus in Denver and other cities, new study finds”

 

By keeping others away.

[JaCrispy]

13 minutes ago, JDHillFan said:

https://coloradosun.com/2020/06/30/police-protests-coronavirus-spread/

 

Here’s a classic!

 

“Black Lives Matter protests may have slowed overall spread of coronavirus in Denver and other cities, new study finds”

 

By keeping others away.

Marxism at its finest- just ignore all science and logic, so long as it helps the revolution…Cute, but people can see right through that BS…😉

 

And it was after the riots that support for BLM began to fade- as it should have…👍

[Joe Ferguson forever]

49 minutes ago, JDHillFan said:

https://www.politico.com/news/2020/09/05/kamala-harris-trump-coronavirus-vaccine-409320

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/09/16/us/politics/biden-trump-coronavirus-vaccine.html

https://foreignpolicy.com/2020/09/03/trumps-vaccine-cant-be-trusted/

https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/biden-trump-coronavirus-vaccine/2020/09/16/2ffbea6a-f831-11ea-a275-1a2c2d36e1f1_story.html

 

https://thehill.com/opinion/white-house/563771-guess-who-undermined-public-confidence-in-vaccines/

 

You will dance around this because it doesn’t fit but we would all do well to steer clear of these people that undermined the miracle vax. 

assuming the 1st link is the most compelling.  “I will say that I would not trust Donald Trump” on the reliability of a vaccine, Harris said. The California senator, however, added that she would trust a “credible” source who could vouch that a vaccine was safe for Americans to receive.

seems reasonable to me given his many false claims during the pandemic.

 

“Let me be clear: I trust vaccines,” Mr. Biden said. “I trust scientists. But I don’t trust Donald Trump, and at this moment, the American people can’t either.”  Also reasonable.

 

Hahn again.  what a scumbag:  On Aug. 22, Trump attacked Steve Hahn, the man he appointed to head up the FDA, tweeting, “The deep state, or whoever, over at the FDA is making it very difficult for drug companies to get people in order to test the vaccines and therapeutics. Obviously, they are hoping to delay the answer until after November 3rd. Must focus on speed, and saving lives!” Two days later, Hahn and his FDA associates published assurances that Operation Warp Speed vaccine approval will be rapid, but “will meet standards for safety.”

 

Wapo under firewall(I subscribe to the NYT)

 

Last link, McCarthy editorial, ibid para #1

Edited February 12, 2023 by redtail hawk

[JDHillFan]

4 minutes ago, redtail hawk said:

assuming the 1st link is the most compelling.  “I will say that I would not trust Donald Trump” on the reliability of a vaccine, Harris said. The California senator, however, added that she would trust a “credible” source who could vouch that a vaccine was safe for Americans to receive.

seems reasonable to me given his many false claims during the pandemic.

Seems clear that the statement undermined vaccine acceptance. I understand fully why you will not be able to say as much. 
 

In short order you have gone from dismay over those that won’t follow your preferred booster schedule to defending those that undercut vaccine acceptance based solely on your political preferences. Do you see why people take issue?

Edited February 12, 2023 by JDHillFan

[Joe Ferguson forever]

4 minutes ago, JDHillFan said:

Seems clear that the statement undermined vaccine acceptance. I understand fully why you will not be able to say as much. 

She appropriately didn't trust trump.  I suppose the writer should have had her define "credible" but the inference is clear.

Edited February 12, 2023 by redtail hawk

[JDHillFan]

1 minute ago, redtail hawk said:

She appropriately didn't trust trump.  I suppose the writer should have had her define "credible" but the inference is clear.

To repeat - In short order you have gone from dismay over those that won’t follow your preferred booster schedule to defending those that undercut vaccine acceptance based solely on your political preferences. Do you see why people take issue?

[Joe Ferguson forever]

17 minutes ago, JDHillFan said:

To repeat - In short order you have gone from dismay over those that won’t follow your preferred booster schedule to defending those that undercut vaccine acceptance based solely on your political preferences. Do you see why people take issue?

FDA, CDC, HHS were all being run by trump stooges who followed his marching orders and demonstrably lied repeatedly.  To me, that was a much greater factor in the development of vax and scientific acceptance hesitancy. Those jerks likely did irreparable damage to generations of stupid people re trust in these institutions and science in general. Biden and Harris called out trump's lies and untrustworthiness while simultaneously supporting vaccines generally.  I don't interpret that as undercutting vax acceptance.  Would I have liked them to focus more on the opinions of credible sources?  sure.

Edited February 12, 2023 by redtail hawk

[JDHillFan]

8 minutes ago, redtail hawk said:

FDA, CDC, HHS were all being run by trump stooges who followed his marching orders and demonstrably lied repeatedly.  To me, that was a much greater factor in the development of vax and scientific acceptance hesitancy. Those jerks likely did irreparable damage to generations of stupid people re these institutions and science in general. Biden and Harris called out trump's lies and untrustworthiness while simultaneously supporting vaccines generally.  I don't interpret that as undercutting vax acceptance.  Would I have liked them to focus more on the opinions of credible sources?  sure.

You have put politics first here and will go down swinging trying to say otherwise. That’s what many have done and it’s been a huge problem. Thanks for dropping the kn95. 

[Joe Ferguson forever]

3 minutes ago, JDHillFan said:

You have put politics first here and will go down swinging trying to say otherwise. That’s what many have done and it’s been a huge problem. Thanks for dropping the kn95. 

not at all.  show me where my opinions are out of line with scientific consensus. I've repeatedly shown where yours are.  but yeah, I'll take some swings.

Edited February 12, 2023 by redtail hawk

[JDHillFan]

2 minutes ago, redtail hawk said:

not at all.  show me where my opinions are out of line with scientific consensus. I've repeatedly shown where yours are.  but yeah, I'll take some swings.

Stay with the conversation please. Your claim that Biden and Harris did not undercut vaccine acceptance, which is ridiculous on its face, is based on scientific consensus? You expect even a redstate hillbilly to buy that? Come on man! 

[leh-nerd skin-erd]

2 hours ago, JaCrispy said:

Yup- it was very much a political pandemic- between who was allowed to be out and who was allowed to post what about the situation…Imo the whole thing was made a lot worse because people were not being honest about what was really going on…

I don’t see how this is even remotely controversial.  Govt chose winners and losers, and often behaved as if there wasn’t a pandemic at all.   
 

 

2 hours ago, redtail hawk said:

assuming the 1st link is the most compelling.  “I will say that I would not trust Donald Trump” on the reliability of a vaccine, Harris said. The California senator, however, added that she would trust a “credible” source who could vouch that a vaccine was safe for Americans to receive.

seems reasonable to me given his many false claims during the pandemic.

 

“Let me be clear: I trust vaccines,” Mr. Biden said. “I trust scientists. But I don’t trust Donald Trump, and at this moment, the American people can’t either.”  Also reasonable.

 

Hahn again.  what a scumbag:  On Aug. 22, Trump attacked Steve Hahn, the man he appointed to head up the FDA, tweeting, “The deep state, or whoever, over at the FDA is making it very difficult for drug companies to get people in order to test the vaccines and therapeutics. Obviously, they are hoping to delay the answer until after November 3rd. Must focus on speed, and saving lives!” Two days later, Hahn and his FDA associates published assurances that Operation Warp Speed vaccine approval will be rapid, but “will meet standards for safety.”

 

Wapo under firewall(I subscribe to the NYT)

 

Last link, McCarthy editorial, ibid para #1

This is why it’s smart and good to question both the science and medical professional dispensing it.  
 

Harris and Biden’s comments most definitely added to the confusion and disinformation centered around the vaccine and its development.  The implication is that somehow, in spite of government oversight and bringing the public /private sector together in unprecedented fashion, that Trump was mixing vaccine cocktails in the basement of the WH.  
 

Meanwhile, of course, Andrew Cuomo was celebrity politician du jour in spite of a complete lack of readiness by NYS govt, and as we now know, cooking the books and exposing our most vulnerable citizens directly to the virus. 
 

Simply put, common sense suggests that you’re too emotionally drawn into the discussion to be reliable.   What Harris and Biden said almost certainly caused already vaccine hesitant people to view the experimental vax with cynicism and distrust, and people likely died as a result.
 

 

[JDHillFan]

https://apnews.com/article/health-election-2020-donald-trump-elections-virus-outbreak-8790eda23e94aec7cf7b4beaaa67ceaf

 

NEW YORK (AP) — President Donald Trump is escalating his promise for a coronavirus vaccinebefore Election Day. 

But across America, Democrats, independents and even some Republicans do not trust his administration to produce a safe and effective vaccine on such an aggressive timeline. Such hesitancy threatens to exacerbate the public health risk for millions of Americans whenever a vaccine is released.

With the Nov. 3 election fast approaching, Democratic officials face a delicate political challenge.

Should they attack Trump’s vaccine claims too aggressively, Democrats risk further undermining public confidence in a possible lifesaving medicine while looking as though they are rooting against a potential cure. But if they don’t push back, it makes it easier for Trump to use the real or imagined prospect of a vaccine to boost his reelection campaign.

 

”no” - redhawk

[Joe Ferguson forever]

20 minutes ago, JDHillFan said:

https://apnews.com/article/health-election-2020-donald-trump-elections-virus-outbreak-8790eda23e94aec7cf7b4beaaa67ceaf

 

NEW YORK (AP) — President Donald Trump is escalating his promise for a coronavirus vaccinebefore Election Day. 

But across America, Democrats, independents and even some Republicans do not trust his administration to produce a safe and effective vaccine on such an aggressive timeline. Such hesitancy threatens to exacerbate the public health risk for millions of Americans whenever a vaccine is released.

With the Nov. 3 election fast approaching, Democratic officials face a delicate political challenge.

Should they attack Trump’s vaccine claims too aggressively, Democrats risk further undermining public confidence in a possible lifesaving medicine while looking as though they are rooting against a potential cure. But if they don’t push back, it makes it easier for Trump to use the real or imagined prospect of a vaccine to boost his reelection campaign.

 

”no” - redhawk

sort of...their comments didn't help, as I said.  They were true

21 minutes ago, JDHillFan said:

https://apnews.com/article/health-election-2020-donald-trump-elections-virus-outbreak-8790eda23e94aec7cf7b4beaaa67ceaf

 

NEW YORK (AP) — President Donald Trump is escalating his promise for a coronavirus vaccinebefore Election Day. 

But across America, Democrats, independents and even some Republicans do not trust his administration to produce a safe and effective vaccine on such an aggressive timeline. Such hesitancy threatens to exacerbate the public health risk for millions of Americans whenever a vaccine is released.

With the Nov. 3 election fast approaching, Democratic officials face a delicate political challenge.

Should they attack Trump’s vaccine claims too aggressively, Democrats risk further undermining public confidence in a possible lifesaving medicine while looking as though they are rooting against a potential cure. But if they don’t push back, it makes it easier for Trump to use the real or imagined prospect of a vaccine to boost his reelection campaign.

 

”no” - redhawk

I will say that rushing the vax was appropriate.  Having trump in control was not.

[BillsFanNC]

So again @redtail hawk if the doctors and medical professionals who said protesting against racial injustice during the pandemic was ok and were according to you, misinformed stupid outliers, then should the outlets who reported on these medical professionals giving stupid, misinformed medical advice such as CNN and Time been slapped with misinformation warnings by social media platforms?  We already know that they were not.

 

If yes, then why weren't they slapped with warnings or censored do you think?

 

If no, why not?  It's clear misinformation.

 

simple yes or no and then explain your position.

 

I know it's hard, but try to stay focused.

Edited February 12, 2023 by BillsFanNC

[Joe Ferguson forever]

10 minutes ago, BillsFanNC said:

So again @redtail hawk if the doctors and medical professionals who said protesting against racial injustice during the pandemic was ok and were according to you, misinformed stupid outliers, then should the outlets who reported on these medical professionals giving stupid, misinformed medical advice such as CNN and Time been slapped with misinformation warnings by social media platforms?  We already know that they were not.

 

If yes, then why weren't they slapped with warnings or censored do you think?

 

If no, why not?  It's clear misinformation.

 

simple yes or no and then explain your position.

 

I know it's hard, but try to stay focused.

 CNN, Twitter, FB, Time are all privately owned.  They can do what they want but I'd love it if they acted ethically.  Re the outliers opinions, they presented them, not endorsed them.  These were political opinions, not scientific.  I don't believe they were reported as such.  They were appealing to authority (which can be valid in certain cases) but these were neither unbiased nor centrist scientific authorities.