SoCal Deek Posted February 12, 2023 Share Posted February 12, 2023 3 minutes ago, redtail hawk said: yes, in all ages where efficacy and safety have been tested. Interesting question re flu vax. The system I worked in has, for years, required all employees to get an annual flu shot or lose their jobs and still does.. Many healthcare systems do the same. Yet many were extremely late or actually fought against mandatory Covid vax. I appreciate your point of view. My work experience has been exactly the opposite without a single negative effect. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aristocrat Posted February 12, 2023 Share Posted February 12, 2023 11 minutes ago, redtail hawk said: What scientific organizations supported mass protests at the height of the pandemic? Just because other stupid people tried to subvert the goals of a temporary lockdown does not make it a bad strategy. https://www.rollingstone.com/culture/culture-news/doctors-black-lives-matter-protests-times-square-1009487/amp/ height of the pandemic this undermined efforts to get the virus under control by being hypocritical. Two sets of rules. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe Ferguson forever Posted February 12, 2023 Share Posted February 12, 2023 (edited) 16 minutes ago, SoCal Deek said: I appreciate your point of view. My work experience has been exactly the opposite without a single negative effect. you don't know of a single co worker who died or became critically ill during the pandemic? 15 minutes ago, aristocrat said: https://www.rollingstone.com/culture/culture-news/doctors-black-lives-matter-protests-times-square-1009487/amp/ height of the pandemic this undermined efforts to get the virus under control by being hypocritical. Two sets of rules. and again, the actions of a few stupid, misguided people does not invalidate a control strategy. Agree, it certainly doesn't help. How many 1000's of people participated in the protests? How many millions remain untaxed. Equating the "contributions" of the two is ridiculous. Edited February 12, 2023 by redtail hawk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aristocrat Posted February 12, 2023 Share Posted February 12, 2023 3 minutes ago, redtail hawk said: you don't know of a single co worker who died or became critically ill during the pandemic? My wife was an icu travel nurse all through the pandemic. One interesting she learned at the contract in New Orleans was that the black population there refused to get vaccinated cause of the Tuskegee experiment. It was amazing hearing the stories and their distrust of vaccines. Things she’d only read in books but hearing it from actual relatives blew her mind. She ended up being forced to get the vaccine even though she worked with patients when there was no vaccine. She got the virus while working in the hospital and continued working while sick as required lol. Then she gets vaxxed gets sick and has to be miss two weeks of work cause of the symptoms. it’s always good to have a healthy distrust of the governmen 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe Ferguson forever Posted February 12, 2023 Share Posted February 12, 2023 (edited) 11 minutes ago, aristocrat said: My wife was an icu travel nurse all through the pandemic. One interesting she learned at the contract in New Orleans was that the black population there refused to get vaccinated cause of the Tuskegee experiment. It was amazing hearing the stories and their distrust of vaccines. Things she’d only read in books but hearing it from actual relatives blew her mind. She ended up being forced to get the vaccine even though she worked with patients when there was no vaccine. She got the virus while working in the hospital and continued working while sick as required lol. Then she gets vaxxed gets sick and has to be miss two weeks of work cause of the symptoms. it’s always good to have a healthy distrust of the governmen and are you and she still anti vax? traveling nursing in overwhelmed areas(particularly in the ICU) was likely the most dangerous job during the pandemic hence the very high compensation. No one was forced to do it. The fact that she signed contracts at each location implies she knew the risks and the conditions or at least should have. She wasn't going to the Greenbrier to assist with executive physicals. Edited February 12, 2023 by redtail hawk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aristocrat Posted February 12, 2023 Share Posted February 12, 2023 1 minute ago, redtail hawk said: and are you and she still anti vax? So I’m not anti vax. Kids had their baby vaxxes but not Covid. I had my vaxxes as a kid. Had Covid original strain may 2020 same time as my lady…no symptoms. Got vaxxed and same thing kicked my ass for a week. Got it again last September a year and a half after being vaxxed and had little symptoms..:thought it was allergies after cutting grass. My kids got Covid as well and had no symptoms. So based on my history with Covid not being vaxxed was better than being vaxxed. But im also in the gym 4x a week with no history of medical issues so im very low on the risk. I’ve always said people with medical issues should get the shot but if you’re healthy better to get the virus and be better protected than the shot. Which is scientifically proven 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillStime Posted February 12, 2023 Share Posted February 12, 2023 Idiots everywhere Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JDHillFan Posted February 12, 2023 Share Posted February 12, 2023 June 14, 2020. NYC checks off on huge Black Trans Lives Matter Rally. NYC area beaches remain closed. Jews not allowed to worship as they see fit. Those that can think outside the realm of what the experts tell us (think Wolensky - a prominent individual) know that this was wrong in every way. Trust: eliminated. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe Ferguson forever Posted February 12, 2023 Share Posted February 12, 2023 4 minutes ago, aristocrat said: So I’m not anti vax. Kids had their baby vaxxes but not Covid. I had my vaxxes as a kid. Had Covid original strain may 2020 same time as my lady…no symptoms. Got vaxxed and same thing kicked my ass for a week. Got it again last September a year and a half after being vaxxed and had little symptoms..:thought it was allergies after cutting grass. My kids got Covid as well and had no symptoms. So based on my history with Covid not being vaxxed was better than being vaxxed. But im also in the gym 4x a week with no history of medical issues so im very low on the risk. I’ve always said people with medical issues should get the shot but if you’re healthy better to get the virus and be better protected than the shot. Which is scientifically proven No. https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMoa2118946 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aristocrat Posted February 12, 2023 Share Posted February 12, 2023 10 minutes ago, redtail hawk said: and are you and she still anti vax? to add. Over the last 14 months in her current icu job same place they haven’t seen one person non vaxxed in icu due to Covid. However, they’ve had consistently around a dozen people in there at a time who are vaxxed and boosted in icu due to Covid. Now, these people all tend to be elderly, drug users etc. the high risk type patients. But not one non vaxxed person 2 minutes ago, redtail hawk said: No. https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMoa2118946 fauci is on record stating that getting the virus is the best protection you can have. So I’ll choose to believe him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe Ferguson forever Posted February 12, 2023 Share Posted February 12, 2023 (edited) 10 minutes ago, aristocrat said: to add. Over the last 14 months in her current icu job same place they haven’t seen one person non vaxxed in icu due to Covid. However, they’ve had consistently around a dozen people in there at a time who are vaxxed and boosted in icu due to Covid. Now, these people all tend to be elderly, drug users etc. the high risk type patients. But not one non vaxxed person She should publish the findings so we all can learn. This study done in that time period showed the opposite (I'm sure there are others but you can look them up for yourself) https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/36068643/. The study does point to decreased effectiveness of the vaccines on emerging strains but the solution isn't giving up on vaxes. It's improving them. Edited February 12, 2023 by redtail hawk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aristocrat Posted February 12, 2023 Share Posted February 12, 2023 2 minutes ago, redtail hawk said: She should publish the findings so we all can learn. This study done in that time period showed the opposite (I'm sure there are others but you can look them up for yourself) https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/36068643/ Her hospital has she’s not in charge of that stuff. Could be the area. People in different locations see different reactions to the virus. For example we were in Eugene Oregon which has an extremely high homeless/drug abuse population and thus she saw so much death there it cause some ptsd. Virus just went through them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe Ferguson forever Posted February 12, 2023 Share Posted February 12, 2023 (edited) 8 minutes ago, aristocrat said: Her hospital has she’s not in charge of that stuff. Could be the area. People in different locations see different reactions to the virus. For example we were in Eugene Oregon which has an extremely high homeless/drug abuse population and thus she saw so much death there it cause some ptsd. Virus just went through them. This is a global pandemic. The effectiveness of the vax would ideally and most effectively be looked at on a global basis 18 minutes ago, aristocrat said: to add. Over the last 14 months in her current icu job same place they haven’t seen one person non vaxxed in icu due to Covid. However, they’ve had consistently around a dozen people in there at a time who are vaxxed and boosted in icu due to Covid. Now, these people all tend to be elderly, drug users etc. the high risk type patients. But not one non vaxxed person fauci is on record stating that getting the virus is the best protection you can have. So I’ll choose to believe him. Please provide a reference. Edited February 12, 2023 by redtail hawk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aristocrat Posted February 12, 2023 Share Posted February 12, 2023 2 minutes ago, redtail hawk said: This is a global pandemic. The effectiveness of the vax would ideally and most effectively be looked at on a global basis yes and no. Certain countries have very low vax numbers and also very low Covid numbers. Haiti for example. The vac has shown you still get it, still get sick still pass it on. High risk people should absolutely get the vax but if you’re healthy and young no reason for the vax. The issue can be tackled in different ways and the politicians ruined that chance. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe Ferguson forever Posted February 12, 2023 Share Posted February 12, 2023 (edited) 8 minutes ago, aristocrat said: yes and no. Certain countries have very low vax numbers and also very low Covid numbers. Haiti for example. The vac has shown you still get it, still get sick still pass it on. High risk people should absolutely get the vax but if you’re healthy and young no reason for the vax. The issue can be tackled in different ways and the politicians ruined that chance. The politicians did harm, especially trump. Agreed. Making this into a political issue was very harmful and deadly. I've presented you several important scientific articles that rebut your thesis. there are many, many more. you've provided none to support your opinion.. btw, your wife did a great service during the pandemic but after suffering PTSD from seeing such devastation, I can't rationalize being against universal vaccination with rare exceptions and especially continuing to improve the vaccine. Logically, anything that significantly lowers the risk of that happening again should be championed, not rejected. Edited February 12, 2023 by redtail hawk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aristocrat Posted February 12, 2023 Share Posted February 12, 2023 1 minute ago, redtail hawk said: The politicians did harm, especially trump. Agreed. Making this into a political issue was very harmful and deadly. I've presented you several important scientific articles that rebut your thesis. there are many, many more. you've provided none to support your opinion.. You mean trump who fast lanes the vax? And then the current administration who said they wouldn’t take the vax if trump was president lol. https://www.webmd.com/covid/news/20230207/healthy-lifestyle-linked-lower-risk-long-covid there’s plenty more showing being healthy is great protection against Covid. You know the whole comorbidity convo we always had during the pandemic. That’s why now they’re going back and finding that the total deaths from Covid are about 30 percent of reported as those people died with it not from it. like I’ve said if you’re high risk get the shot. If not it’s not that necessary especially with the drugs they have now to treat it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe Ferguson forever Posted February 12, 2023 Share Posted February 12, 2023 (edited) 6 minutes ago, aristocrat said: You mean trump who fast lanes the vax? And then the current administration who said they wouldn’t take the vax if trump was president lol. https://www.webmd.com/covid/news/20230207/healthy-lifestyle-linked-lower-risk-long-covid there’s plenty more showing being healthy is great protection against Covid. You know the whole comorbidity convo we always had during the pandemic. That’s why now they’re going back and finding that the total deaths from Covid are about 30 percent of reported as those people died with it not from it. like I’ve said if you’re high risk get the shot. If not it’s not that necessary especially with the drugs they have now to treat it. Of course being healthy lowers your risk. In other news, the sky is blue. who said it doesn't. This piece, in no way, advances your argument. I give credit to trump for pushing vax development but it would have been political malpractice to not. please reference those that said they wouldn't take the vax if trump was prez. I'll steer clear from them. The opinions of stupid people shouldn't color our response to catastrophe. Edited February 12, 2023 by redtail hawk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aristocrat Posted February 12, 2023 Share Posted February 12, 2023 https://www.washingtonpost.com/wellness/2022/12/21/covid-exercise-hospitalization-mortality/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe Ferguson forever Posted February 12, 2023 Share Posted February 12, 2023 (edited) 5 minutes ago, aristocrat said: https://www.washingtonpost.com/wellness/2022/12/21/covid-exercise-hospitalization-mortality/ geez, yes. This has nothing to do with the argument to vax or not. Are you an audiophile? Audiophiles constantly work to eliminate background noise from their equipment, recordings. In a similar manner, epidemiologists and public health experts try to remove background infections that worsen population outcomes. Why is this so hard to understand. Edited February 12, 2023 by redtail hawk 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillsFanNC Posted February 12, 2023 Share Posted February 12, 2023 10 hours ago, redtail hawk said: what part of conflict of interests do you not understand? It's a study whose data has been questioned by multiple respected experts in the field and its conclusions are of little to no consequence to clinical or population medicine. Did bhat's proposed local prevalence estimates lead to a prediction of 1 million US deaths (or 3 million without widespread vaxing)? Did he quote those numbers, based on his insignificant study , in his "declaration"? Why would I waste my time? Wondering the same about debating you. Thanks for confirming that you're a hack. Again. 40 minutes ago, redtail hawk said: This is a global pandemic. The effectiveness of the vax would ideally and most effectively be looked at on a global basis Please provide a reference. Are you going to actually read it if he does? 50 minutes ago, redtail hawk said: She should publish the findings so we all can learn. This study done in that time period showed the opposite (I'm sure there are others but you can look them up for yourself) https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/36068643/. The study does point to decreased effectiveness of the vaccines on emerging strains but the solution isn't giving up on vaxes. It's improving them. You're a moron. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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