Slate tries to debunk “dies suddenly;” fails miserably then calls for a police state

[ChiGoose]

1 minute ago, JDHillFan said:

You have also told us you wear a mask in crowded indoor settings. The world has moved on. Not everyone is as risk-averse as you seem to be. You and like-minded people are free to do what you do. Nobody cares. If that makes you a more thoughtful person than the vast majority, well, you’ve got that going for you. 

I get why people don’t wear masks and I don’t think we should mandate them. 
 

What I fail to understand is why people would refuse to get a shot that greatly reduces their chances of a severe outcome from a contagious disease that’s still killing hundreds of people every day. Even if people don’t care about anyone but themselves, they should get the shot. Or at the very least, talk to their doctor about it. 

[JDHillFan]

8 minutes ago, ChiGoose said:

I get why people don’t wear masks and I don’t think we should mandate them. 
 

What I fail to understand is why people would refuse to get a shot that greatly reduces their chances of a severe outcome from a contagious disease that’s still killing hundreds of people every day. Even if people don’t care about anyone but themselves, they should get the shot. Or at the very least, talk to their doctor about it. 

What are the long-term ramifications of repeated mRNA boosters? Does your doctor know? If so, how does he know?

[ChiGoose]

3 minutes ago, JDHillFan said:

What are the long-term ramifications of repeated mRNA boosters? Does your doctor know? If so, how does he know?

5 Reasons We Know The COVID-19 Vaccines Don't Have Long-Term Health Effects

 

“1. History has showed us that with vaccines, adverse effects occur within eight weeks of vaccination—not years later

2. Neither mRNA technology—nor viral vector technology—is new. 

 

3. mRNA technology does not alter your DNA.
 

4. As opposed to other types of treatments and medications that are taken regularly, vaccines can’t cause a surprise reaction years down the road. 
 

5. The mRNA vaccines might feel futuristic, but their ingredients actually are not.“

 

The article goes a bit more in depth, but there’s little to no reason to suspect that there are long term negative effects from the vaccines. 

[BillsFanNC]

13 minutes ago, ChiGoose said:

I get why people don’t wear masks and I don’t think we should mandate them. 
 

What I fail to understand is why people would refuse to get a shot that greatly reduces their chances of a severe outcome from a contagious disease that’s still killing hundreds of people every day. Even if people don’t care about anyone but themselves, they should get the shot. Or at the very least, talk to their doctor about it. 

 

What populations?

 

Healthy people under say 40 with no comorbidities are extremely low risk for severe disease from covid. 

 

Older diabetics? Undergoing chemotherapy at any age? Obese? 65+? Those populations should consider getting vaccinated because they are actually at risk for severe disease.

 

Just like the vaccines never promised to prevent infection to all, despite government officials lying  and saying otherwise, the risk of severe disease is not one size fits all.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Joe Ferguson forever]

26 minutes ago, ChiGoose said:

I get why people don’t wear masks and I don’t think we should mandate them. 
 

What I fail to understand is why people would refuse to get a shot that greatly reduces their chances of a severe outcome from a contagious disease that’s still killing hundreds of people every day. Even if people don’t care about anyone but themselves, they should get the shot. Or at the very least, talk to their doctor about it. 

because many Americans are stupid and selfish....

[JDHillFan]

4 minutes ago, ChiGoose said:

5 Reasons We Know The COVID-19 Vaccines Don't Have Long-Term Health Effects

 

“1. History has showed us that with vaccines, adverse effects occur within eight weeks of vaccination—not years later

2. Neither mRNA technology—nor viral vector technology—is new. 

 

3. mRNA technology does not alter your DNA.
 

4. As opposed to other types of treatments and medications that are taken regularly, vaccines can’t cause a surprise reaction years down the road. 
 

5. The mRNA vaccines might feel futuristic, but their ingredients actually are not.“

 

The article goes a bit more in depth, but there’s little to no reason to suspect that there are long term negative effects from the vaccines. 

“With vaccines, you’ll get one or two shots (maybe even three if you get a booster),” says Dr. Cunningham. “If you are going to get a reaction from a vaccine, it’s going to occur soon after you receive the vaccine. At most, it will occur within two months—not 10 years later.”
 

From the article. What about boosters 4,5,6 and beyond? Is there any mRNA science that speaks to it?

 

Your personal risk aversion ceases when it comes to repeated mRNA injections. Good for you. Having had covid a year after my initial two round vax and lived to tell the tale I’m going to wait a little while and see how it all plays out. It turns out the vaccines neither prevent one from getting covid nor spreading it. 

[Joe Ferguson forever]

33 minutes ago, ChiGoose said:

I get why people don’t wear masks and I don’t think we should mandate them. 
 

What I fail to understand is why people would refuse to get a shot that greatly reduces their chances of a severe outcome from a contagious disease that’s still killing hundreds of people every day. Even if people don’t care about anyone but themselves, they should get the shot. Or at the very least, talk to their doctor about it. 

The competitive nature of med school admissions has its  benefits:  https://www.ama-assn.org/press-center/press-releases/ama-survey-shows-over-96-doctors-fully-vaccinated-against-covid-19

 

Edited February 11, 2023 by redtail hawk

[JDHillFan]

4 minutes ago, redtail hawk said:

The competitive nature of med school admissions has its  benefits:  https://www.ama-assn.org/press-center/press-releases/ama-survey-shows-over-96-doctors-fully-vaccinated-against-covid-19

 

Any chance some of them have had second thoughts since the article that was published in Jun 2021? Is it even possible?

[Joe Ferguson forever]

7 minutes ago, JDHillFan said:

Any chance some of them have had second thoughts since the article that was published in Jun 2021? Is it even possible?

don't know of newer data.  If I recall correctly, this was at a time where approx 60% of eligible Americans had been vaxed.  In the hospital system I worked at, that was the same number for nurses.  perhaps, admission criteria for all professions should be highly competitive.

 

Newer numbers but small study involving only family practitioners:  https://www.aafp.org/news/health-of-the-public/covid-vaccine-survey.html

Edited February 11, 2023 by redtail hawk

[All_Pro_Bills]

23 minutes ago, ChiGoose said:

5 Reasons We Know The COVID-19 Vaccines Don't Have Long-Term Health Effects

 

“1. History has showed us that with vaccines, adverse effects occur within eight weeks of vaccination—not years later

2. Neither mRNA technology—nor viral vector technology—is new. 

 

3. mRNA technology does not alter your DNA.
 

4. As opposed to other types of treatments and medications that are taken regularly, vaccines can’t cause a surprise reaction years down the road. 
 

5. The mRNA vaccines might feel futuristic, but their ingredients actually are not.“

 

The article goes a bit more in depth, but there’s little to no reason to suspect that there are long term negative effects from the vaccines. 

So these experts guarantee the risk of any long term impacts is zero? 

[JDHillFan]

6 minutes ago, redtail hawk said:

don't know of newer data.  If I recall correctly, this was at a time where approx 60% of eligible Americans had been vaxed.  In the hospital system I worked at, that was the same number for nurses.  perhaps, admission criteria for all professions should be highly competitive.

Indeed and that was also around the time when the phrase “breakthrough infection” started making news and it started becoming clear that the vaccine did not work in the way Wolensky, Biden, and Maddow assured us it would. 

Edited February 11, 2023 by JDHillFan

[Joe Ferguson forever]

3 minutes ago, JDHillFan said:

Indeed and that was also around the time when the phrase “breakthrough infection” started making news and it started becoming clear that the vaccine did not work in the way Wolensky, Biden, and Maddow assured us it would. 

And yet those educated and knowledgable to a much greater degree in virology/microbiology/infectious disease and medical risk/benefit analysis than the general population continued to overwhelmingly get vaxed.

Edited February 11, 2023 by redtail hawk

[JDHillFan]

1 minute ago, redtail hawk said:

And yet those educated and knowledgable to a much greater degree in virology/microbiology/infectious disease than the general population continued to overwhelmingly get vaxed.

True. We will see how it plays out. I personally have concerns when the experts, opinion makers, and President turn out to be 100% wrong in their claims. Makes me less willing to follow along. Others have more faith in these fine public servants and media mavens and are willing to overlook their wrongness. Have at it. 

[Joe Ferguson forever]

6 minutes ago, JDHillFan said:

True. We will see how it plays out. I personally have concerns when the experts, opinion makers, and President turn out to be 100% wrong in their claims. Makes me less willing to follow along. Others have more faith in these fine public servants and media mavens and are willing to overlook their wrongness. Have at it. 

no.  Others have more direct knowledge of the patients they've cared for or watched die from Covid and are well aware of who among those were vaxed or uvaxed...

Edited February 11, 2023 by redtail hawk

[Tommy Callahan]

It's pretty simple.  The voices that have been pro.oting these shots and shouting everyone else down.  Have been wrong on almost every count.  

So it's a mix between the boy that cried wolf and a lack of trust/integrity.  And good old fashion reasoning/critical thinking skills?

 

[JDHillFan]

Just now, redtail hawk said:

no.  Others have more direct knowledge of the patients they've cared for or watched die from Covid and are well aware of who among those that were vaxed or uvaxed...

Vaxed people get hospitalized and die too. You still seem to want to believe it’s going to save the world despite the numbers in front of you. The vaccine is of marginal value. Get as many as you want. Nobody is stopping you and I am sure it will protect you from the hillbillies you fear. Not everyone is as fearful as you. The vax doesn’t do what it was advertised as doing. That’s not even debatable.

[Joe Ferguson forever]

1 hour ago, JDHillFan said:

Vaxed people get hospitalized and die too. You still seem to want to believe it’s going to save the world despite the numbers in front of you. The vaccine is of marginal value. Get as many as you want. Nobody is stopping you and I am sure it will protect you from the hillbillies you fear. Not everyone is as fearful as you. The vax doesn’t do what it was advertised as doing. That’s not even debatable.

https://covid.cdc.gov/covid-data-tracker/#rates-by-vaccine-status  Death is the most solid medical study endpoint.  but also select the cases graph, just for giggles..

Edited February 11, 2023 by redtail hawk

[JDHillFan]

11 minutes ago, redtail hawk said:

https://covid.cdc.gov/covid-data-tracker/#rates-by-vaccine-status  Death is the most solid medical study endpoint.  but also select the cases graph, just for giggles..

Cases steady and fairly low during winter. Certainly lower than last winter which we were told would be one of darkness and death. That doesn’t seem to fit the narrative. It’s especially interesting in light of:

 

Now, many have shrugged off the need to get updated boosters. Only 15% of people eligiblefor the COVID booster shot that targets the omicron variant have gotten it — a rate that is even lower than the perennially disappointing rates for flu vaccine uptake. 
 

https://www.npr.org/sections/health-shots/2022/12/28/1145339626/its-not-too-late-to-get-a-covid-booster-especially-for-older-adults

 

I know you like NPR. 
 

[Motorin']

2 hours ago, ChiGoose said:

I get why people don’t wear masks and I don’t think we should mandate them. 
 

What I fail to understand is why people would refuse to get a shot that greatly reduces their chances of a severe outcome from a contagious disease that’s still killing hundreds of people every day. Even if people don’t care about anyone but themselves, they should get the shot. Or at the very least, talk to their doctor about it. 

 

I think the major concern is that the shot was primary lipids and cholesterol and there were concerns about blood clotting and myocarditis. Combine that with the CDC coming out and saying that most people who died from Covid had comorbidities (diabetes, heart disease, obesity ect), then I think a legitimate question arises: could the long term effects of the vaccine be worse off than getting Covid for healthy people? 

 

I can't help but think of Vioxx. Remember it took the FDA over 7 years to say, oops! This drug makes you 200% more likely to die of a heart attack... Our bad...

 

Most drugs take 5-7 years of safety trials. Bc you can't have longitudinal results without long term studies. To pretend like we know the vaccines are safe over the long term when the amount of time necessary to do longitudinal studies isn't even close to having passed is a bit insulting. 

 

[Joe Ferguson forever]

41 minutes ago, JDHillFan said:

Cases steady and fairly low during winter. Certainly lower than last winter which we were told would be one of darkness and death. That doesn’t seem to fit the narrative. It’s especially interesting in light of:

 

Now, many have shrugged off the need to get updated boosters. Only 15% of people eligiblefor the COVID booster shot that targets the omicron variant have gotten it — a rate that is even lower than the perennially disappointing rates for flu vaccine uptake. 
 

https://www.npr.org/sections/health-shots/2022/12/28/1145339626/its-not-too-late-to-get-a-covid-booster-especially-for-older-adults

 

I know you like NPR. 
 

I do like NPR.  And I do like the article:  

Vaccines, good treatments and the fact that so many people have been infected, all help keep people out of the hospital. But every week in America, more than 2,500 people continue to die of COVID.

"Personally, I am not a fan of needless suffering and death," says Dr. Kelly Moore, CEO of Immunize.org, which does vaccination education and advocacy. A recent analysis from the Commonwealth Fund found that the vaccination campaign prevented more than 18 million hospitalizations and 3 million deaths in the U.S., and saved the country more than $1 trillion.

"We've got an effective tool that can prevent a great deal of suffering, hospitalization and deaths, and we should still be using it," Moore says.

 

Do you dispute the overall 12.7 X increased risk of death in untaxed vs vaxed that I linked.  What would be your upper and lower thresholds in order to continue getting vaxed?