Biden is Mentally Fit Posted January 20, 2023 Share Posted January 20, 2023 2 minutes ago, redtail hawk said: umm procreation and mate attraction are necessary conditions for human life... Why do you need yoga hotties as part of that? I’m being told that men can menstruate and get pregnant. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillsFanNC Posted January 20, 2023 Share Posted January 20, 2023 6 minutes ago, redtail hawk said: yoga's the better \option imo. Women there are better looking as well. you missed/ are missing your chance to save the world. how do you feel about polio and measles vaxes? flu shots? Well given that many of my patents and publications are in vaccine formulation, I'm for them. I was for the covid vaccine too. Even got it myself. Now, given they can't reformulate the vax on a timeline that keeps in front of circulating strains there's really no need to promote it for the young and healthy. High risk folks? Absolutely. Furthermore, it should never be mandated outside of high risk healthcare settings. Funny how as a vaccine formulation researcher, holding this view made me an anti-vaxxer to so many on the left who demand that we follow the science(tm) 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LDD Posted January 20, 2023 Share Posted January 20, 2023 2 minutes ago, BillsFanNC said: Well given that many of my patents and publications are in vaccine formulation, I'm for them. I was for the covid vaccine too. Even got it myself. Now, given they can't reformulate the vax on a timeline that keeps in front of circulating strains there's really no need to promote it for the young and healthy. High risk folks? Absolutely. Furthermore, it should never be mandated outside of high risk healthcare settings. Funny how as a vaccine formulation researcher, holding this view made me an anti-vaxxer to so many on the left who demand that we follow the science(tm) Just curious about your perspective on flu vaccines. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe Ferguson forever Posted January 20, 2023 Share Posted January 20, 2023 (edited) 10 minutes ago, BillsFanNC said: Well given that many of my patents and publications are in vaccine formulation, I'm for them. I was for the covid vaccine too. Even got it myself. Now, given they can't reformulate the vax on a timeline that keeps in front of circulating strains there's really no need to promote it for the young and healthy. High risk folks? Absolutely. Furthermore, it should never be mandated outside of high risk healthcare settings. Funny how as a vaccine formulation researcher, holding this view made me an anti-vaxxer to so many on the left who demand that we follow the science(tm) and why is it that "they" can't keep up. Do you believe there was ever an opportunity to gain better control so that "they" could keep up? 15 minutes ago, JDHillFan said: Why do you need yoga hotties as part of that? I’m being told that men can menstruate and get pregnant. cuz it's fun dummy. that and natural selection... Edited January 20, 2023 by redtail hawk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tommy Callahan Posted January 20, 2023 Share Posted January 20, 2023 1 hour ago, redtail hawk said: it makes perfect sense. The virus spread and mutated like wildfire, in part because of nohnvaxed and idiots who believed in herd immunity (which as predicted is taking many years to develop). It's possible that nothing would have stopped the virus (I personally don't hold this belief) but many fewer would be dead had there been universal vaccination. No doubt about it. IT makes perfect sense as isolation, masking and other policies have created a point where peoples natural immunity is about shot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillsFanNC Posted January 20, 2023 Share Posted January 20, 2023 2 minutes ago, redtail hawk said: and why is it that "they" can't keep up. Do you believe there was ever an opportunity to gain better control so that "they" could keep up? cruz it's fun dummy Because once you start developing a vaccine around what is currently circulating, like with omicron, by the time you formulate it and produce it, the virus has mutated and any viral challenge to an omicron vaccinated individual is not going to offer much protection to prevent infection. Does it provide some protection? Sure. It's likely to result in less severe symptoms and result in lower mortality/morbidity. That's again why you continue to recommend it for elderly, immunocompromised and patients with co-morbidities and why you don't require it for young and healthy patients who are at 1000 fold lower risk. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe Ferguson forever Posted January 20, 2023 Share Posted January 20, 2023 (edited) 6 minutes ago, BillsFanNC said: Because once you start developing a vaccine around what is currently circulating, like with omicron, by the time you formulate it and produce it, the virus has mutated and any viral challenge to an omicron vaccinated individual is not going to offer much protection to prevent infection. Does it provide some protection? Sure. It's likely to result in less severe symptoms and result in lower mortality/morbidity. That's again why you continue to recommend it for elderly, immunocompromised and patients with co-morbidities and why you don't require it for young and healthy patients who are at 1000 fold lower risk. yes (sort of), and my other question? Do you think there is a strategy that can slow mutation to say, Zeta? What would that involve? Edited January 20, 2023 by redtail hawk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillsFanNC Posted January 20, 2023 Share Posted January 20, 2023 (edited) 26 minutes ago, LDD said: Just curious about your perspective on flu vaccines. Flu vaccines are useful as well and more so to protect elderly and immunocompromised populations. The flu vaccine in the northern hemisphere is reformulated each year based on what we know is circulating at flu surveillance centers in the southern hemisphere. So it's a best guess each year as to what H1N1, H3N2 and B strains are likely to he predominant. They aren't always right and sometimes the vaccine doesn't offer much protection at all from getting flu. But if you're a 55 year old obese smoker with diabetes or are undergoing chemotherapy and therefore immunocompromised, then you're likely to be in better shape having been vaccinated than not if you get influenza. Edit: it's also important to note how flu vaccines are different than the covid mRNA vaccines. Flu vaccines are an antigen vaccine, where the flu strains that are choosen are grown in cell culture bioreactors, then are chemically inactivated before formulating in the final vaccine. So your body generates an immune response against the whole virion. The viral immunogen is not encapsulated in liposomes like with the covid vaccine. With the covid mRNA vaccines the spike protein mRNA sequence is encapsulated because RNA is very unstable and needs to be protected from degrading enzymes before cellular uptake and translation into the short spike protein peptide that ultimately generates an immune response. So flu vaccines use massive bioreactors at pharma plants to create the immunogen, covid vaccines use our own cellular machinery as a "bioreactor" to create the immunogen. Edited January 20, 2023 by BillsFanNC 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OrangeBills Posted January 20, 2023 Share Posted January 20, 2023 11 hours ago, redtail hawk said: Yes, we'd all rather be arguing with dumbfks than going to dinner parties, eating at great restaurants with friends, skiing some of the best terrain in N America and snowmobiling around Yellowstone. Meanwhile, only a million or so Americans have died. Party on Garth! Wrong, over three years, many millions more Americans have died than 1m. In fact, upward of 7m Americans have died since Feb, 2020, which is what happens normally. You seem to have fallen for the Media narrative that labeling a cause of death that probably 80%-90% (my made up guesstimate) would have happened that year from SOMETHING anyway is cause to shut society and ruin EVERYONE'S lives, but there are people that are smarter than that and called out what would happen to our society in real time for what they did. In the end, Democrats/Liberals response to COVID will lead to far worse total life outcomes than the COVID/Flu virus. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe Ferguson forever Posted January 20, 2023 Share Posted January 20, 2023 (edited) 10 minutes ago, OrangeBills said: Wrong, over three years, many millions more Americans have died than 1m. In fact, upward of 7m Americans have died since Feb, 2020, which is what happens normally. You seem to have fallen for the Media narrative that labeling a cause of death that probably 80%-90% (my made up guesstimate) would have happened that year from SOMETHING anyway is cause to shut society and ruin EVERYONE'S lives, but there are people that are smarter than that and called out what would happen to our society in real time for what they did. In the end, Democrats/Liberals response to COVID will lead to far worse total life outcomes than the COVID/Flu virus. yes, your admittedly made up guesstimate should hold much sway in national policy decisions. Edited January 20, 2023 by redtail hawk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe Ferguson forever Posted January 20, 2023 Share Posted January 20, 2023 (edited) as mentioned earlier, Vanderbilt has been a leader in Covid population studies. Here's a great summary of some of their early work for those actually interested in science. For those with a keen interest, most of the original articles are available for free. https://discoveries.vanderbilthealth.com/2021/07/what-we-know-now-vaccine-effectiveness-in-preventing-hospitalization/ Edited January 20, 2023 by redtail hawk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillsFanNC Posted January 20, 2023 Share Posted January 20, 2023 1 hour ago, redtail hawk said: yes (sort of), and my other question? Do you think there is a strategy that can slow mutation to say, Zeta? What would that involve? Reposting here to keep on topic. We don't. I mean we could go full New Zealand and accelerate the downfall of human civilization itself by attempting a futile and irrational zero covid strategy. But those of us who live in reality recognize that covid-19 and its sub-lineages are with the human race going forward. The virus will be circulating among human populations long after we are all dust. So we stop trying to do the impossible and learn to live with it. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe Ferguson forever Posted January 20, 2023 Share Posted January 20, 2023 1 minute ago, BillsFanNC said: Reposting here to keep on topic. We don't. I mean we could go full New Zealand and accelerate the downfall of human civilization itself by attempting a futile and irrational zero covid strategy. But those of us who live in reality recognize that covid-19 and its sub-lineages are with the human race going forward. The virus will be circulating among human populations long after we are all dust. So we stop trying to do the impossible and learn to live with it. so rapid mutations that outpace vax development are practically impossible to slow? pretty defeatist attitude. Sure glad you weren't Hamlin's doc. btw, I couldn't disagree more. There's a spectrum of measures between what's being done and what can be done. It's not all or nothing as in the false choice you offer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Biden is Mentally Fit Posted January 20, 2023 Share Posted January 20, 2023 4 minutes ago, redtail hawk said: as mentioned earlier, Vanderbilt has been a leader in Covid population studies. Here's a great summary of some of their early work for those actually interested in science. For those with a keen interest, most of the original articles are available for free. https://discoveries.vanderbilthealth.com/2021/07/what-we-know-now-vaccine-effectiveness-in-preventing-hospitalization/ For those actually interested in science let’s note that the linked article is from 18 months ago. Doesn’t science evolve? Covid science particularly so? What does today’s data say? When the head of the CDC declares that vaccinated people cannot get or spread covid and proves to be spectacularly wrong, what are we to think about “experts”? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OrangeBills Posted January 20, 2023 Share Posted January 20, 2023 48 minutes ago, redtail hawk said: yes, your admittedly made up guesstimate should hold much sway in national policy decisions. Well, it's not totally made up. Calculate Excess deaths in the '20-'22 time-frame, per year relative to the trailing 10-years average deaths per year, and you'll find like 10% "excess" deaths in those years... But, honest statisticians will note that after growing low-single digits percentages for much of that decade, the 2-3 years prior to COVID saw a deceleration (and I believe on year was actually a contraction) in US deaths, such that the argument would be made that there were more people susceptible to dying from "something" the following three years anyway. You have to think beyond what you hear on CNN/MSNBC and read in the NYTIMES (which laughably still has a "COVID" count section still...hilarious. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe Ferguson forever Posted January 20, 2023 Share Posted January 20, 2023 (edited) 18 minutes ago, JDHillFan said: For those actually interested in science let’s note that the linked article is from 18 months ago. Doesn’t science evolve? Covid science particularly so? What does today’s data say? When the head of the CDC declares that vaccinated people cannot get or spread covid and proves to be spectacularly wrong, what are we to think about “experts”? I guess you missed the word "early". Yes, science evolves. We know more now and the virus is getting "smarter" simultaneously. Therefore, the conclusion of the barbarians is to give up. Que sera, sera. F'in brilliant. have at it dude. Don't discount the page because it originates from Harvard. https://www.hsph.harvard.edu/news/hsph-in-the-news/the-latest-on-the-coronavirus/ Edited January 20, 2023 by redtail hawk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leh-nerd skin-erd Posted January 20, 2023 Share Posted January 20, 2023 2 hours ago, redtail hawk said: give me the infectious disease specialists and epidemiologists who know science over the "own research" dummies. Sure, me too, that’s why I followed guidelines. In fact, that’s what made the democrat positioning so g-d perplexing. While infectious disease specialists and epidemiologists were screaming to stay at home, shelter in place and mind the greater good…they were encouraging mass gatherings and ignoring the rules. They quote literally spread vax misinformation offers by the specialists you referenced. Once elected and in control, they dropped COVID off the federal map in about 6 months, just about as Trump predicted. The Dems were directly responsible for spread, infection and dying on a massive scale. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillsFanNC Posted January 20, 2023 Share Posted January 20, 2023 28 minutes ago, redtail hawk said: so rapid mutations that outpace vax development are practically impossible to slow? pretty defeatist attitude. Sure glad you weren't Hamlin's doc. btw, I couldn't disagree more. There's a spectrum of measures between what's being done and what can be done. It's not all or nothing as in the false choice you offer. Nice strawman. The best that can done going forward, as with flu, is to make guesses based on viral sequencing and modeling of currently circulating strains what might best match what we expect to see beyond the time it takes to re-formulate and manufacture a vaccine. Researchers have been trying a universal flu vaccine for a long time. Might they breakthrough one day and successfully bring one to market? Maybe. Same with covid vaccines. What we should be doing in the meantime and what we should have done from day one is take measures to protect the vulnerable and not create a cascade of larger public heath poor outcomes because of measures that make no difference to healthy populations not at risk. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoCal Deek Posted January 20, 2023 Share Posted January 20, 2023 3 hours ago, redtail hawk said: give me the infectious disease specialists and epidemiologists who know science over the "own research" dummies. I think it's very likely, I got it at church. Could have been elsewhere. Could have been from a vaxed individual. Doesn't change the fact that early adoption of universal vaccination would have made the event less likely. kapisch? What? Again, I’m sorry you’re sick but are you reading ANYTHING you’re posting? You now admit you don’t know where you contracted this flu or whether you got it from someone who was vaccinated. I’ll say it again…WHAT? This is utterly ridiculous! You’re clearly caught up in emotion, not science. So was I last Christmas when we all came down with it. But…I didn’t lash out at some long gone ex-President. Geeez! Go get some chicken soup, and get better. 1 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillsFanNC Posted January 20, 2023 Share Posted January 20, 2023 I think we've all seen people like this guy while flying. It's disgusting what these covid propagandists have done. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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