34-78-83 Posted May 16, 2005 Share Posted May 16, 2005 Remember the last time PW got a sack in crunch time against a quality opponent when we needed it? Yeah, me neither. 337849[/snapback] In all fairness to Pat, that hypothetical situation is about the farthest thing from the top of a DT's priority list as you can get. Unless it's some sort of pass-rushing specialist undersized DT type of thing... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alaska Darin Posted May 16, 2005 Share Posted May 16, 2005 In all fairness to Pat, that hypothetical situation is about the farthest thing from the top of a DT's priority list as you can get. Unless it's some sort of pass-rushing specialist undersized DT type of thing... 337862[/snapback] He was the one who stated he wanted to be in there on every down. I distinctly remember just about every situation our defense has been put in with the need to hold a lead, they've given it up. PW's lack of push on obvious passing downs is a liability, not a strength. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EC-Bills Posted May 16, 2005 Share Posted May 16, 2005 “(Buffalo general manager Tom Donahoe) doesn’t know what he’s doing down there. I want to play every snap. I don’t have no weight problem, that’s the other guys. I’m good.” Horses*#t . If I had a dime for every time I saw him gasping for breath, I could retire. I like Pat and was sorry to see him go but make no mistake. He was best in a rotation and needed a breather every bit as much as Sam Adams. TD wasn't the Coach who decided on the rotation. Bitter because he didn't get the initial big $$ and settled for just a little more from the Vikes. I wish him well but I read the same drivel from Thurman, Andre Reed, Bruce Smith and many others when they left for other teams. I take his comments as scorned pride and little else. 337803[/snapback] Exactly, I would rather think Pat made the comments out of frustration and scorned pride as opposed to the alternative Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jarthur31 Posted May 17, 2005 Share Posted May 17, 2005 I think that's funny when he said that TD writes up the starting lineup and makes the substitution calls. I guess it was never MM! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dave mcbride Posted May 17, 2005 Share Posted May 17, 2005 “(Buffalo general manager Tom Donahoe) doesn’t know what he’s doing down there. I want to play every snap. I don’t have no weight problem, that’s the other guys. I’m good.” Horses*#t . If I had a dime for every time I saw him gasping for breath, I could retire. I like Pat and was sorry to see him go but make no mistake. He was best in a rotation and needed a breather every bit as much as Sam Adams. TD wasn't the Coach who decided on the rotation. Bitter because he didn't get the initial big $$ and settled for just a little more from the Vikes. I wish him well but I read the same drivel from Thurman, Andre Reed, Bruce Smith and many others when they left for other teams. I take his comments as scorned pride and little else. 337803[/snapback] 26-38 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dave mcbride Posted May 17, 2005 Share Posted May 17, 2005 He was the one who stated he wanted to be in there on every down. I distinctly remember just about every situation our defense has been put in with the need to hold a lead, they've given it up. PW's lack of push on obvious passing downs is a liability, not a strength. 337863[/snapback] lashing out at pat williams seems to me to be the wrong response (and i'm not directing this at anyone in particular). lest we forget, he's being replaced by a wing and a prayer -- a guy who flat out sucked the year he was a starter (edwards) and a guy who didn't appear to play a down the entire season despite being a first day draft pick last year. i'll admit: i'm ever hopeful, but i fear that donohoe is merely a mediocrity, a guy who takes 1 step forward and 1 step back every season. i suspect that he's the sort of guy who is solid enough to avoid perennial 4-12 seasons, but not good enough to manage better than 8-8 or 9-7. on paper, the bills are worse than they were last year (unless the qb shocks the world and has a better than 20/16 td/int ratio) and i fear a mediocre season again. i hope i'm proven the fool and the bills end up 12-4, but having taken a few days off from thinking about the bills and then looking at them afresh, they look to be a run-of-the-mill team. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dave mcbride Posted May 17, 2005 Share Posted May 17, 2005 . . . And good luck playing without Sam Adams beside you to tie up a couple of O linemen at a time. 337799[/snapback] hate to break it to you, but kevin williams had a better season than sam adams last year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Simon Posted May 17, 2005 Share Posted May 17, 2005 He also had a pretty tough time without Ted or Big Sam. Do you mean like when he led all NFL DLinemen in tackles every year that TED or The Keg weren't here? I'd be a little hesitant to call that a "tough time". 26-38 47-17 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stussy109 Posted May 17, 2005 Share Posted May 17, 2005 I'll tell you what, I got to get an insider's perspective this past season at times from my neighbor, who happened to be Izell Reese. I asked him his take on PW being resigned, whether he was worth it. I also brought up the argument that Ron Edwards had looked good at times. He said it would most definitely be worth it to keep pat around for at least another year or two to keep the defense intact... (basically stating pat Williams was a large contributor to the defense) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
34-78-83 Posted May 17, 2005 Share Posted May 17, 2005 He was the one who stated he wanted to be in there on every down. I distinctly remember just about every situation our defense has been put in with the need to hold a lead, they've given it up. PW's lack of push on obvious passing downs is a liability, not a strength. 337863[/snapback] I would agree with you if that were his role, but it was pretty apparent that it wasn't. Under last season's scheme the role of the DT on passing downs looked to be that of pushing or deflating the pocket, to which other attack positions would come free or the QB would be lead to a "desired" location. The team's success in both turnovers and sacks bares out the fact that this approach worked well overall. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill from NYC Posted May 17, 2005 Share Posted May 17, 2005 I would agree with you if that were his role, but it was pretty apparent that it wasn't. Under last season's scheme the role of the DT on passing downs looked to be that of pushing or deflating the pocket, to which other attack positions would come free or the QB would be lead to a "desired" location. The team's success in both turnovers and sacks bares out the fact that this approach worked well overall. 338053[/snapback] I will give PW one thing....when he speaks of "busting up centers," this IS what he does. He is quite unselfish in that his role IS to enable others to make plays. Simon urged me to pay more attention to PW, and I did so. That said, AD's comment is to also be taken seriously imo. PW, imo, is not a player who will very often give you the "key sack." I think that he is at his best when there is a blitz, and players can run past the blocker(s) that he occupies, but this is at the cost of downfield coverage one would think. If you remember, I sat in the first row directly behind the Bills D last season. I am telling you, PW looks to weigh as much as Big Sam! 317????? He is closer to 360, and I am not exaggerating even a little. On the sidelines, he looks as if he can barely walk, and then he trots out to the field. At his size and age, PW did well to sign a 4 year deal. I wish him well and thank him for the memories, but I am thinking that the Bills can and will fill his shoes, if even by committee. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark VI Posted May 17, 2005 Share Posted May 17, 2005 26-38 337976[/snapback] This whole thread was about Pat Williams and his ability to play every down. In my opinion, he cannot . He's most effective in a rotation and I still like the guy when used in that situation. At 33, he wanted full time starter $$ and didn't get it here. You decided to take another opportunity to bash TD, something you enjoy on a daily basis. I question many a TD move over the last 4 years but I try to look at the postives and negatives. I think this team is going in the right direction and TD should get another 2 years to prove it out. The D looks good, the ST's look great and moves have been made to improve an inept Offense. It's May, when optimism is the norm for a team with legit talent. Your " I dislike TD " position was understood by the TSW community the first 700 times you posted it. After a while, I have to view is as campaigning and adding little to the discussion. The above response adds nothing to the Pat Williams topic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fan in San Diego Posted May 17, 2005 Share Posted May 17, 2005 Sounds like sour grapes to me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoeF Posted May 17, 2005 Share Posted May 17, 2005 I wish Pat the best. He went from an UDFA to an almost pro bowl level several years. That being said, this is not the first time an aging veteran free agent has taken shots at his former team or former GM when they did not match an offer to resign them. Someone used the figure that Pat was on the field for 58% of defensive snaps last year (unable to verify this)--but Jerry Gray's rotation philosophy on the line has served us pretty well the last couple of years--it pisses off Sam and Pat --but Jerry is the DC. The positive side is that Ron Edwards got a lot of snaps last year, just as Justin Bannan did the year before when Edwards was hurt. Will Edwards and Anderson immediately perform at Pat's level?--very doubtful--but look at it this way--during most of the times we needed pass rush push last year--Edwards was the guy who provided it--all we need is Anderson to be the anchor against the run and the D doesn't drop off significantly. Also, I still say we try to add one more vet to this mix after June 1....Bannan has never impressed me with his ability to anchor--we tend to get blown out a lot when he is in there--if a vet becomes available--I bet we give it a long look. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pine Barrens Mafia Posted May 17, 2005 Share Posted May 17, 2005 47-17 338039[/snapback] Let's keep TD's record with the Bills in focus. It's all well and good that "he" built those teams in Pitt (Not quite sure it was him with Cowher there). Let's go on what he's done HERE and NOW which, by reckoning of Ws and Ls isn't a whole hell of a lot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Simon Posted May 17, 2005 Share Posted May 17, 2005 Let's keep TD's record with the Bills in focus. It's all well and good that "he" built those teams in Pitt (Not quite sure it was him with Cowher there). Let's go on what he's done HERE and NOW which, by reckoning of Ws and Ls isn't a whole hell of a lot. 338150[/snapback] Whne somebody says something as silly as this: "i fear that donohoe is merely a mediocrity, a guy who takes 1 step forward and 1 step back every season. i suspect that he's the sort of guy who is solid enough to avoid perennial 4-12 seasons, but not good enough to manage better than 8-8 or 9-7." And then picks out the worst 4 years of a guy's 15year career to support it, then I don't see the difference in picking out the guy's best 4 years to contrast it. 47-17 is just as meaningful as 28-36; which is to say it neither of them has any meaning whatsoever. Especially when you consider that the 3-13 season which skews his record with the Bills wasn't even his roster. In reality he came into the worst personell and financial situation in the entire NFL and has managed to assemble teams that have played about .500 ball in the NFL's toughest division while showing steady improvement and no signs of going backwards. I think that deserves a little more respect and consideration than condemning his abilities with some irrelevant hand-selected numbers. Cya P.S. You can rest assuredly that it was NOT Bill Cowher that put together those Stillers teams as he had little to no say in personell decisions until TD's last year when he started pushing for them. And that P'burgh team that went 15-1 last year? Over half thier starters are still Donahoe acquisitions, 5 full years after his deparature! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pine Barrens Mafia Posted May 17, 2005 Share Posted May 17, 2005 Whne somebody says something as silly as this: "i fear that donohoe is merely a mediocrity, a guy who takes 1 step forward and 1 step back every season. i suspect that he's the sort of guy who is solid enough to avoid perennial 4-12 seasons, but not good enough to manage better than 8-8 or 9-7."And then picks out the worst 4 years of a guy's 15year career to support it, then I don't see the difference in picking out the guy's best 4 years to contrast it. 47-17 is just as meaningful as 28-36; which is to say it neither of them has any meaning whatsoever. Especially when you consider that the 3-13 season which skews his record with the Bills wasn't even his roster. In reality he came into the worst personell and financial situation in the entire NFL and has managed to assemble teams that have played about .500 ball in the NFL's toughest division while showing steady improvement and no signs of going backwards. I think that deserves a little more respect and consideration than condemning his abilities with some irrelevant hand-selected numbers. Cya P.S. You can rest assuredly that it was NOT Bill Cowher that put together those Stillers teams as he had little to no say in personell decisions until TD's last year when he started pushing for them. And that P'burgh team that went 15-1 last year? Over half thier starters are still Donahoe acquisitions, 5 full years after his deparature! 338166[/snapback] OK, so let's take the 3-13 out. It still leaves a 25-23 record. Nothing to write home about. I'm giving him this year. If this team doesn't produce, someone needs to hold the guy accountable. and no, 8-8 or 9-7 is not production. I'm talking a minimum of 10-6 and a playoff spot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alaska Darin Posted May 17, 2005 Share Posted May 17, 2005 OK, so let's take the 3-13 out. It still leaves a 25-23 record. Nothing to write home about. I'm giving him this year. If this team doesn't produce, someone needs to hold the guy accountable. and no, 8-8 or 9-7 is not production. I'm talking a minimum of 10-6 and a playoff spot. 338182[/snapback] Thanks for weighing in, Ralph. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dave mcbride Posted May 17, 2005 Share Posted May 17, 2005 Whne somebody says something as silly as this: "i fear that donohoe is merely a mediocrity, a guy who takes 1 step forward and 1 step back every season. i suspect that he's the sort of guy who is solid enough to avoid perennial 4-12 seasons, but not good enough to manage better than 8-8 or 9-7."And then picks out the worst 4 years of a guy's 15year career to support it, then I don't see the difference in picking out the guy's best 4 years to contrast it. 47-17 is just as meaningful as 28-36; which is to say it neither of them has any meaning whatsoever. Especially when you consider that the 3-13 season which skews his record with the Bills wasn't even his roster. In reality he came into the worst personell and financial situation in the entire NFL and has managed to assemble teams that have played about .500 ball in the NFL's toughest division while showing steady improvement and no signs of going backwards. I think that deserves a little more respect and consideration than condemning his abilities with some irrelevant hand-selected numbers. Cya P.S. You can rest assuredly that it was NOT Bill Cowher that put together those Stillers teams as he had little to no say in personell decisions until TD's last year when he started pushing for them. And that P'burgh team that went 15-1 last year? Over half thier starters are still Donahoe acquisitions, 5 full years after his deparature! 338166[/snapback] ah, but simon, you need to realize that i don't care what he did with the steelers. indeed, when he was with the steelers i actively rooted for his team to lose and he frustrated me there. seriously, i know you're biased toward donohoe, and i really respect that -- you got a lot of exposure to him in pitt. i'll also freely admit that while support him greatly because he's a tireless worker on behalf of the bills, i have been a bit soured by his whole snarky attitudetoward the previous regime (evident in many of his comments) which was so good to us fans. to quote the new star wars films, "only a sith thinks in absolutes", and i'm no sith. i think some people are so wedded to him because of a truly exemplary run in pittsburgh that they miss the tree (the bills) for the forest (his overall career). i'm reversing the metaphor, i know, but to reiterate, i ultimately don't give a damn about his run with the steelers. i respect it, but then again i can't stand them (this goes back to the drubbings the bills took in the 1970s). anyway, with the bills, he he's made some nice picks and signings but for a variety of reasons the team hasn't gotten it done. between 1988 and 1999, the bills made the playoffs in 10 out of 12 seasons, lest we forget. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alaska Darin Posted May 17, 2005 Share Posted May 17, 2005 I would agree with you if that were his role, but it was pretty apparent that it wasn't. Under last season's scheme the role of the DT on passing downs looked to be that of pushing or deflating the pocket, to which other attack positions would come free or the QB would be lead to a "desired" location. Gee, that's funny. I distinctly remember Ron Edward's replacing PW on passing downs because of his ability to rush the passer instead of merely taking up a defender so the rush could come from somewhere else. But maybe I'm wrong. The team's success in both turnovers and sacks bares out the fact that this approach worked well overall. 338053[/snapback] Well, except against quality opponents in our own conference with the game on the line. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts