All_Pro_Bills Posted October 31, 2023 Share Posted October 31, 2023 14 minutes ago, Tiberius said: Boy, you really want Putin to get a win. Personally, I have no objections to helping Ukraine. What I object to is the funding model. Its not like the US government has $100's of billions collecting dust in various savings accounts. Quite the contrary. Congress must pass legislation authorizing the aid. The President signs the bill and along with that the Treasury is authorized to issue notes and bills for the $100 billion. Proceeds from the sale are sent to the Treasury and the aid is provided. Then the US taxpayer assumes responsibility for making the principal and interest payments on the debt and the national debt is incremented an additional $100 billion. I expect if there was a requirement that the aid was contingent on a tax increase of $100 billion of both personal and business taxes there would be a lot less enthusiasm for the idea both from politicians that would be run out of office for increasing taxes and the public in general. But the method of borrowing and spending "hides" the debt and the consequences by placing them in the future for somebody else to figure out how to pay it back and deal with the problem. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tiberius Posted October 31, 2023 Author Share Posted October 31, 2023 18 minutes ago, All_Pro_Bills said: Personally, I have no objections to helping Ukraine. What I object to is the funding model. Its not like the US government has $100's of billions collecting dust in various savings accounts. Quite the contrary. Congress must pass legislation authorizing the aid. The President signs the bill and along with that the Treasury is authorized to issue notes and bills for the $100 billion. Proceeds from the sale are sent to the Treasury and the aid is provided. Then the US taxpayer assumes responsibility for making the principal and interest payments on the debt and the national debt is incremented an additional $100 billion. I expect if there was a requirement that the aid was contingent on a tax increase of $100 billion of both personal and business taxes there would be a lot less enthusiasm for the idea both from politicians that would be run out of office for increasing taxes and the public in general. But the method of borrowing and spending "hides" the debt and the consequences by placing them in the future for somebody else to figure out how to pay it back and deal with the problem. It's an emergency so it won't be perfect. Just do it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doc Posted October 31, 2023 Share Posted October 31, 2023 9 hours ago, B-Man said: Anyone surprised ? Meet the new boss... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tommy Callahan Posted October 31, 2023 Share Posted October 31, 2023 29 minutes ago, Doc said: Meet the new boss... One of the main reasons nato wouldn't take them is the deep corruption. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
B-Man Posted October 31, 2023 Share Posted October 31, 2023 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tommy Callahan Posted October 31, 2023 Share Posted October 31, 2023 (edited) 4 hours ago, Tiberius said: It's an emergency so it won't be perfect. Just do it like "We have to pass the bill to find out whats in it" or the majority of legislation post 9/11? Edited October 31, 2023 by Tommy Callahan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
All_Pro_Bills Posted October 31, 2023 Share Posted October 31, 2023 4 hours ago, Tiberius said: It's an emergency so it won't be perfect. Just do it Our open southern border is an emergency. But apparently not on the administration's priority list. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tiberius Posted October 31, 2023 Author Share Posted October 31, 2023 Just now, All_Pro_Bills said: Our open southern border is an emergency. But apparently not on the administration's priority list. We get more people, what emergency? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tommy Callahan Posted October 31, 2023 Share Posted October 31, 2023 (edited) 1 minute ago, Tiberius said: We get more people, what emergency? do you leave the house? Seen the homeless? Notice how much its rising? Wont even get into the victims of the trafficing on the border you seem to be stumping for. Since pot got legalized. Smuggling humans is one of the Carels best businesses models. https://americafirstpolicy.com/latest/20220518-murderous-cartels-illicit-drugs-and-human-trafficking-the-threat-and-atrocity-of-americas-porous-southern-border https://insightcrime.org/investigations/clans-coyotes-cartels-human-trafficking-us-mexico-border/ Edited October 31, 2023 by Tommy Callahan 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doc Posted October 31, 2023 Share Posted October 31, 2023 4 hours ago, All_Pro_Bills said: Our open southern border is an emergency. But apparently not on the administration's priority list. They think they'll all become Dem voters. Because that's what America needs to right the sinking ship... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John from Riverside Posted November 1, 2023 Share Posted November 1, 2023 19 hours ago, All_Pro_Bills said: Personally, I have no objections to helping Ukraine. What I object to is the funding model. Its not like the US government has $100's of billions collecting dust in various savings accounts. Quite the contrary. Congress must pass legislation authorizing the aid. The President signs the bill and along with that the Treasury is authorized to issue notes and bills for the $100 billion. Proceeds from the sale are sent to the Treasury and the aid is provided. Then the US taxpayer assumes responsibility for making the principal and interest payments on the debt and the national debt is incremented an additional $100 billion. I expect if there was a requirement that the aid was contingent on a tax increase of $100 billion of both personal and business taxes there would be a lot less enthusiasm for the idea both from politicians that would be run out of office for increasing taxes and the public in general. But the method of borrowing and spending "hides" the debt and the consequences by placing them in the future for somebody else to figure out how to pay it back and deal with the problem. I agree with this give them all the funding they need, but there needs to be accountability 9 hours ago, Doc said: They think they'll all become Dem voters. Because that's what America needs to right the sinking ship... majority of them will, that’s the reason why Republicans are so scared of it 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tommy Callahan Posted November 1, 2023 Share Posted November 1, 2023 4 hours ago, John from Riverside said: I agree with this give them all the funding they need, but there needs to be accountability Oh snap. you just went full blown GOP. cause that was Old Rand Paul's biggest hang up. it was a blank check, not detailed. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JaCrispy Posted November 1, 2023 Share Posted November 1, 2023 (edited) On 10/30/2023 at 2:50 PM, ChiGoose said: Agreed. There is no uniparty. It’s an idiotic theory for the gullible. And even a broken clock (or turtle) is right twice a day. To be more precise, one could argue that the Establishment in both parties constitutes a “Uniparty” on foreign policy (being pro war- where the Military Industrial Complex is concerned) while differing on domestic policy… Edited November 1, 2023 by JaCrispy 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
All_Pro_Bills Posted November 1, 2023 Share Posted November 1, 2023 18 minutes ago, JaCrispy said: To be more precise, one could argue that the Establishment in both parties constitutes a “Uniparty” on foreign policy (being pro war- where the Military Industrial Complex is concerned) while differing on domestic policy… I'm beginning to come around to the idea that the domestic policy differences are simply intended to keep us all guessing and bickering while the armored car quietly pulls away from the back door loaded with cash and tax receipts. Most interesting to me is if you study how the dollar reserve and trade settlement system functions and what magical powers it provides the US government along with how the Treasury and Federal Reserve operate you can't come away as nothing but impressed and amazed at how this racket operates to the advantage of the people in on the hustle at the ground floor. The rest of use, not so much. We get inflation through price increases or hidden inflation through a loss of purchasing power of the dollars we hold and earn. Which eventually leads to a lower standard of living. This racket isn't a Republican or Democrat thing, or a liberal or conservative thing, or some left or right thing. Its the business of running the world from behind the curtain with our elected government fronting the operation while pretending to represent the interests of American citizens and occasionally doing so just to keep up the illusion. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JaCrispy Posted November 1, 2023 Share Posted November 1, 2023 2 minutes ago, All_Pro_Bills said: I'm beginning to come around to the idea that the domestic policy differences are simply intended to keep us all guessing and bickering while the armored car quietly pulls away from the back door loaded with cash and tax receipts. Most interesting to me is if you study how the dollar reserve and trade settlement system functions and what magical powers it provides the US government along with how the Treasury and Federal Reserve operate you can't come away as nothing but impressed and amazed at how this racket operates to the advantage of the people in on the hustle at the ground floor. The rest of use, not so much. We get inflation through price increases or hidden inflation through a loss of purchasing power of the dollars we hold and earn. Which eventually leads to a lower standard of living. This racket isn't a Republican or Democrat thing, or a liberal or conservative thing, or some left or right thing. Its the business of running the world from behind the curtain with our elected government fronting the operation while pretending to represent the interests of American citizens and occasionally doing so just to keep up the illusion. Excellent post…couldn’t have said it any better…👍 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tiberius Posted November 1, 2023 Author Share Posted November 1, 2023 22 minutes ago, All_Pro_Bills said: I'm beginning to come around to the idea that the domestic policy differences are simply intended to keep us all guessing and bickering while the armored car quietly pulls away from the back door loaded with cash and tax receipts. Most interesting to me is if you study how the dollar reserve and trade settlement system functions and what magical powers it provides the US government along with how the Treasury and Federal Reserve operate you can't come away as nothing but impressed and amazed at how this racket operates to the advantage of the people in on the hustle at the ground floor. The rest of use, not so much. We get inflation through price increases or hidden inflation through a loss of purchasing power of the dollars we hold and earn. Which eventually leads to a lower standard of living. This racket isn't a Republican or Democrat thing, or a liberal or conservative thing, or some left or right thing. Its the business of running the world from behind the curtain with our elected government fronting the operation while pretending to represent the interests of American citizens and occasionally doing so just to keep up the illusion. Who is running this racket? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
All_Pro_Bills Posted November 1, 2023 Share Posted November 1, 2023 20 minutes ago, Tiberius said: Who is running this racket? Good question. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tiberius Posted November 1, 2023 Author Share Posted November 1, 2023 3 minutes ago, All_Pro_Bills said: Good question. Ah! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tommy Callahan Posted November 1, 2023 Share Posted November 1, 2023 (edited) 31 minutes ago, All_Pro_Bills said: Good question. PACS, Charities, lobbyist, and think tanks. mostly funded by the same small sub section of the top quintile. drive policy, drive wedge topics, sue to keep people off the ballot, harvest and deliver ballots from housing projects and senior living centers and what not. Political spending in the 2020 election totaled $14.4 billion, more than doubling the total cost of the record-breaking 2016 presidential election cycle. That’s according to OpenSecrets’ analysis of Federal Election Commission filings. OpenSecrets previously estimated that the 2020 election would cost around $14 billion. The extraordinary spending figure makes the 2020 election the most expensive of all time by a large margin. https://www.opensecrets.org/news/2021/02/2020-cycle-cost-14p4-billion-doubling-16/ Democratic candidates and groups spent $8.4 billion, compared to $5.3 billion for Republicans. Democrats' spending falls to $7 billion when excluding spending by billionaire presidential candidates Michael Bloomberg and Tom Steyer. When they are getting that much cash, anyone without that kind of support isn't even being seen or heard. Edited November 1, 2023 by Tommy Callahan 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doc Posted November 1, 2023 Share Posted November 1, 2023 7 hours ago, John from Riverside said: majority of them will, that’s the reason why Republicans are so scared of it If so, you should be as well. They'll all be on government assistance, sucking up your tax dollars. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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