Tiberius Posted October 20, 2022 Author Share Posted October 20, 2022 3 minutes ago, Tenhigh said: I want to know how far you are willing to go in your support of Ukraine. Do you support providing them with nukes? Its a simple question. This I don't get. Why me? This is a politics board. We discuss the doings of the world, yet you want to make this personal about me? Who cares if i want nukes or not. You have not established the relevance of the question. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoCal Deek Posted October 20, 2022 Share Posted October 20, 2022 46 minutes ago, Tiberius said: This I don't get. Why me? This is a politics board. We discuss the doings of the world, yet you want to make this personal about me? Who cares if i want nukes or not. You have not established the relevance of the question. And down the troll infested rabbit hole we go. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
All_Pro_Bills Posted October 20, 2022 Share Posted October 20, 2022 1 hour ago, Tiberius said: Putin, like Hitler before him, will not negotiate. You don't know that? That's incorrect. Several sources have confirmed that Turkey hosted negotiations between Ukraine and Russia in April of 2022 where a deal was being crafted but then Boris Johnson was dispatched to Ukraine to inform Zelensky that no such arrangement was acceptable and the war would continue. So as to which involved party won't negotiate, you need to look towards Washington and London. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tiberius Posted October 20, 2022 Author Share Posted October 20, 2022 6 minutes ago, All_Pro_Bills said: That's incorrect. Several sources have confirmed that Turkey hosted negotiations between Ukraine and Russia in April of 2022 where a deal was being crafted but then Boris Johnson was dispatched to Ukraine to inform Zelensky that no such arrangement was acceptable and the war would continue. So as to which involved party won't negotiate, you need to look towards Washington and London. And no peace, right? They failed. Putin continues to murder people. You want to make friends with that monster? You just want him to be appeased? Are you upset a big friend of leadership here is being wrecked by Biden helping Ukraine? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoCal Deek Posted October 20, 2022 Share Posted October 20, 2022 Just now, Tiberius said: And no peace, right? They failed. Putin continues to murder people. You want to make friends with that monster? You just want him to be appeased? Are you upset a big friend of leadership here is being wrecked by Biden helping Ukraine? So everyone else on here is supposed to express their personal feelings…..just not you. I see! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tiberius Posted October 20, 2022 Author Share Posted October 20, 2022 Just now, SoCal Deek said: So everyone else on here is supposed to express their personal feelings…..just not you. I see! My, your, anyone one person's opinion here makes no difference to the larger world, right? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoCal Deek Posted October 20, 2022 Share Posted October 20, 2022 Just now, Tiberius said: My, your, anyone one person's opinion here makes no difference to the larger world, right? Correct. So why not answer the question he posed? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tiberius Posted October 20, 2022 Author Share Posted October 20, 2022 2 minutes ago, SoCal Deek said: Correct. So why not answer the question he posed? Explain the question's relevance Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoCal Deek Posted October 20, 2022 Share Posted October 20, 2022 Just now, Tiberius said: Explain the question's relevance Keep digging the hole. You’ll find that rabbit eventually. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tiberius Posted October 20, 2022 Author Share Posted October 20, 2022 3 minutes ago, SoCal Deek said: Keep digging the hole. You’ll find that rabbit eventually. So you admit the question was bull. Thanks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
All_Pro_Bills Posted October 20, 2022 Share Posted October 20, 2022 3 minutes ago, Tiberius said: And no peace, right? They failed. Putin continues to murder people. You want to make friends with that monster? You just want him to be appeased? Are you upset a big friend of leadership here is being wrecked by Biden helping Ukraine? War kills people. If that's the measure of evil then how many people have been murdered in wars and interventions initiated by Washington over the past 20+ years? The truth is you won't accept Biden's Washington administration does not want peace. Their objective is to bog down Russia in a costly war of attrition against some proxy State, which is Ukraine. And they're willing to sacrifice as many Ukrainian troops and civilians as it takes. And fund the effort to infinity. If that's not evil then what is? Is Putin a bad guy? Sure he is. Nobody is arguing he's some sort of Saint. But him being a bad guy doesn't disqualify anyone else from being a bad guy here too. I'm sure my words will fall on deaf ears as we've gone some 244 pages of conversation and nothing anyone has said or anything that has transpired on the ground to this point has caused you to move one inch from your original position. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tiberius Posted October 20, 2022 Author Share Posted October 20, 2022 12 minutes ago, All_Pro_Bills said: War kills people. If that's the measure of evil then how many people have been murdered in wars and interventions initiated by Washington over the past 20+ years? The truth is you won't accept Biden's Washington administration does not want peace. Their objective is to bog down Russia in a costly war of attrition against some proxy State, which is Ukraine. And they're willing to sacrifice as many Ukrainian troops and civilians as it takes. And fund the effort to infinity. If that's not evil then what is? Is Putin a bad guy? Sure he is. Nobody is arguing he's some sort of Saint. But him being a bad guy doesn't disqualify anyone else from being a bad guy here too. I'm sure my words will fall on deaf ears as we've gone some 244 pages of conversation and nothing anyone has said or anything that has transpired on the ground to this point has caused you to move one inch from your original position. This is all a bunch of nonsense Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillStime Posted October 20, 2022 Share Posted October 20, 2022 ‘Smart,’ ‘Savvy’ and “Genius’ 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoCal Deek Posted October 20, 2022 Share Posted October 20, 2022 39 minutes ago, Tiberius said: So you admit the question was bull. Thanks The discussion was on if we should write a blank check. You don’t want to even give a total anonymous opinion on a limit. So I’m guessing that’s much closer to bull then I’ll ever be. Answer the simple question! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tiberius Posted October 20, 2022 Author Share Posted October 20, 2022 8 minutes ago, SoCal Deek said: The discussion was on if we should write a blank check. You don’t want to even give a total anonymous opinion on a limit. So I’m guessing that’s much closer to bull then I’ll ever be. Answer the simple question! The question is not relevant. No one is saying anything about sending nukes. You are just trying to drag this down the rabbit hole. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoCal Deek Posted October 20, 2022 Share Posted October 20, 2022 2 minutes ago, Tiberius said: The question is not relevant. No one is saying anything about sending nukes. You are just trying to drag this down the rabbit hole. So you agree with McCarthy ….no blank check funding. I’m done here. Thank you Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tiberius Posted October 20, 2022 Author Share Posted October 20, 2022 17 minutes ago, SoCal Deek said: So you agree with McCarthy ….no blank check funding. I’m done here. Thank you You were done when we started. And McCarthy is saying he wants to cut the funding. Putin smiled hearing that 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
All_Pro_Bills Posted October 20, 2022 Share Posted October 20, 2022 (edited) 3 hours ago, Tiberius said: This is all a bunch of nonsense That assessment is pretty vague. Exactly what is nonsense? i think its more like truths that are inconvenient to your argument. Edited October 20, 2022 by All_Pro_Bills Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tiberius Posted October 20, 2022 Author Share Posted October 20, 2022 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillStime Posted October 20, 2022 Share Posted October 20, 2022 8 minutes ago, Tiberius said: Perfect. Democracy is priceless. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tenhigh Posted October 20, 2022 Share Posted October 20, 2022 7 hours ago, Tiberius said: This I don't get. Why me? This is a politics board. We discuss the doings of the world, yet you want to make this personal about me? Who cares if i want nukes or not. You have not established the relevance of the question. Why you? You have been on this political board screaming for no fly zones and providing Ukraine with everything that it wants, from aid to a full scale of advanced weaponry. Should we provide Ukraine with nuclear weapons to act as a deterrent to the evil terrorist Putin? It is a simple yes or no question, why are you so reluctant to answer? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tiberius Posted October 20, 2022 Author Share Posted October 20, 2022 2 hours ago, Tenhigh said: Why you? You have been on this political board screaming for no fly zones and providing Ukraine with everything that it wants, from aid to a full scale of advanced weaponry. Should we provide Ukraine with nuclear weapons to act as a deterrent to the evil terrorist Putin? It is a simple yes or no question, why are you so reluctant to answer? Just me how the question has any relevance. I don't see it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tenhigh Posted October 21, 2022 Share Posted October 21, 2022 2 hours ago, Tiberius said: Just me how the question has any relevance. I don't see it You have been the loudest voice on this board about giving Ukraine whatever they want, and I am interested in knowing how far you are comfortable with us going in their support. I honestly can't believe that you won't just answer yes or no, what are you worried about? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tenhigh Posted October 21, 2022 Share Posted October 21, 2022 5 hours ago, BillStime said: Perfect. Democracy is priceless. $50 billion to the country ranking 122nd on the corruption index, what could go wrong? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillStime Posted October 21, 2022 Share Posted October 21, 2022 5 hours ago, Tenhigh said: $50 billion to the country ranking 122nd on the corruption index, what could go wrong? Democracy is priceless. You do realize when authoritarianism takes over - your dictator won’t just own the libs - they will own you, too! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coffeesforclosers Posted October 21, 2022 Share Posted October 21, 2022 The whole "Ukraine is corrupt! We should give them less, or nothing at all!" argument would be persuasive. Except: 1. Ukraine is currently winning the war. 2. Russia's lost about 7,300 tanks, trucks, APCs, jeeps and artillery pieces in 8 months. See for yourself. 3. Russian propaganda is bitching non stop about how good NATO gear is. 4. Russian propaganda is bitching non stop about how well the Ukrainians are using NATO gear. So I think the RoI on our support is pretty decent. We're also entering month 9 of a war that was supposed to end in a week. And end in the bloodless conquest of Ukraine by Russia, followed by the very bloody forced assimilation of Ukrainians to Russian culture. As part of Russia's plan to reshape the world order to it's advantage. Which currently isnt working out exactly as they'd hoped, to say the least. Now the rise or fall of Ukraine may not matter much to a lot of us Americans, given the troubles we've got ourselves. But it matters a great deal to a country that does not like us, and in fact wants to see us humbled, humiliated, and reduced in power. Balancing these issues is tricky business, but they both need to be resolved in our favor. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tenhigh Posted October 21, 2022 Share Posted October 21, 2022 4 hours ago, BillStime said: Democracy is priceless. You do realize when authoritarianism takes over - your dictator won’t just own the libs - they will own you, too! Priceless even if it costs nuclear war? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillStime Posted October 21, 2022 Share Posted October 21, 2022 25 minutes ago, Tenhigh said: Priceless even if it costs nuclear war? Priceless. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoCal Deek Posted October 21, 2022 Share Posted October 21, 2022 1 hour ago, Coffeesforclosers said: The whole "Ukraine is corrupt! We should give them less, or nothing at all!" argument would be persuasive. Except: 1. Ukraine is currently winning the war. 2. Russia's lost about 7,300 tanks, trucks, APCs, jeeps and artillery pieces in 8 months. See for yourself. 3. Russian propaganda is bitching non stop about how good NATO gear is. 4. Russian propaganda is bitching non stop about how well the Ukrainians are using NATO gear. So I think the RoI on our support is pretty decent. We're also entering month 9 of a war that was supposed to end in a week. And end in the bloodless conquest of Ukraine by Russia, followed by the very bloody forced assimilation of Ukrainians to Russian culture. As part of Russia's plan to reshape the world order to it's advantage. Which currently isnt working out exactly as they'd hoped, to say the least. Now the rise or fall of Ukraine may not matter much to a lot of us Americans, given the troubles we've got ourselves. But it matters a great deal to a country that does not like us, and in fact wants to see us humbled, humiliated, and reduced in power. Balancing these issues is tricky business, but they both need to be resolved in our favor. I’ve not met a single person who believes Putin was correct in attacking Ukraine. Not one! The issue being discussed here is NOT about whether the US should be on the side of the Ukrainians. The discussion is about how much oversight is presently going on (if any) with our significant financial contribution to the effort. Which I believe is an entirely appropriate discussion given the Ukraine's horrible record for accountability and corruption. It’s not complicated. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coffeesforclosers Posted October 21, 2022 Share Posted October 21, 2022 1 hour ago, SoCal Deek said: I’ve not met a single person who believes Putin was correct in attacking Ukraine. Not one! The issue being discussed here is NOT about whether the US should be on the side of the Ukrainians. The discussion is about how much oversight is presently going on (if any) with our significant financial contribution to the effort. Which I believe is an entirely appropriate discussion given the Ukraine's horrible record for accountability and corruption. It’s not complicated. Right. And I'm saying the current level of oversight is just fine, given the results. Sorry if that wasn't clear. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sherpa Posted October 21, 2022 Share Posted October 21, 2022 17 minutes ago, Coffeesforclosers said: Right. And I'm saying the current level of oversight is just fine, given the results. Sorry if that wasn't clear. I am interested to hear how you have information on the oversight of these weapons contributions to have an opinion on it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coffeesforclosers Posted October 21, 2022 Share Posted October 21, 2022 (edited) 1 hour ago, sherpa said: I am interested to hear how you have information on the oversight of these weapons contributions to have an opinion on it. I want to know why you want to fix something that isn't broken. Edited October 21, 2022 by Coffeesforclosers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sherpa Posted October 21, 2022 Share Posted October 21, 2022 31 minutes ago, Coffeesforclosers said: I want to know why you want to fix something that isn't broken. So you didn't answer the question. Instead you assert that I want to do something that I have never suggested. You simply made it up. Can you answer the question or not? The reason I asked the question is that i am quite familiar with the history of weapons transfers into very unfriendly hands during surrogate war operations. I want to know how someone on this site can claim there is adequate oversight, which is what you did. Remember Benghazi? Know what a big part of the CIA presence there was for? I'll give you a hint.......It's related to this subject. That is why I asked the question. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tiberius Posted October 21, 2022 Author Share Posted October 21, 2022 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoCal Deek Posted October 21, 2022 Share Posted October 21, 2022 Just now, Tiberius said: I hate to break it to you but McConnell is the John McCain 2.0. Just other old fart trying to do everything he can to hang onto his power seat. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tiberius Posted October 21, 2022 Author Share Posted October 21, 2022 35 minutes ago, SoCal Deek said: I hate to break it to you but McConnell is the John McCain 2.0. Just other old fart trying to do everything he can to hang onto his power seat. Sounds like you meant to say Trump Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoCal Deek Posted October 21, 2022 Share Posted October 21, 2022 Just now, Tiberius said: Sounds like you meant to say Trump Tibs, in all honesty it actually applies to just about all of them on both sides of the aisle. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tiberius Posted October 21, 2022 Author Share Posted October 21, 2022 1 minute ago, SoCal Deek said: Tibs, in all honesty it actually applies to just about all of them on both sides of the aisle. And the system works 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoCal Deek Posted October 21, 2022 Share Posted October 21, 2022 Just now, Tiberius said: And the system works On that we differ. It no longer works the way it was intended to. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tiberius Posted October 21, 2022 Author Share Posted October 21, 2022 28 minutes ago, SoCal Deek said: On that we differ. It no longer works the way it was intended to. I know, the cry babies are REALLY unhappy now Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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