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ESPN - AFC East QBs offer promise, but Buffalo Bills are clear 2021 favorite


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On 7/4/2021 at 4:02 PM, Ya Digg? said:

I get that you have a fear of the Patriots, but you look at those WR and think that group has improved? How? Also, their QBs are Cam and a rookie-how much of a jump are you expecting them to make? Are you expecting double digit wins from them? 

 

nelson agholor and Kendrick Bourne 

 

Are not better than n'keal harry, and jakobi Myers? Ha ha just what are we doing here...

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21 minutes ago, Patrick_Duffy said:

I agree to a certain extent....he definitely didn't impress much. If I was also a Fins fan I too would be a little concerned, but being a rookie some struggles is expected and would want to see what he does next season.

 

See if he at least shows some promise and improve some to the point that he proves he can lead a team and move the ball better. If still looks same most of next season I think then I would be a lot more worried.

I disagree.  IMO, the Dolphins made a huge mistake staying with Tua.  It makes their bold move of replacing Fitz with Tua, when Fitz was better, a mistake.   I thought Miami was discarding their fluke possibility at the playoffs for the long term.  The early look and decision of whether Tua was the long term answer.

 

They got to see what they had, and somehow came to the exact opposite conclusion that I had.  

 

Miami should have gone the AZ route and reloaded at QB with a do over while they had the chance (the #3 pick).

 

Huge blunder.  And I'm enjoying every  second of it.

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2 hours ago, Ghost_002! said:

 

nelson agholor and Kendrick Bourne 

 

Are not better than n'keal harry, and jakobi Myers? Ha ha just what are we doing here...

Give me a prediction then, since those 2 all pro receivers make the pats so much better, how many yards will they have? How many touchdowns? How many games will the Pats win? Do you seriously think those 2 guys will significantly improve the pats this season? 

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On 7/3/2021 at 12:53 PM, RoyBatty is alive said:

 

He is betting on Tagovailoa to ascend is he and then claims the Dolphins have a higher ceiling?  LOL.  Well maybe all except the most important position , QB.  Anyone that thinks Tua has a higher ceiling than J Allen is delusional.  And three seasons predictions in the NFL are fairly worthless, you can easily go from one of the best to worst or vice versa trams in the NFL given three years, 

 

I didn't read it that way. I saw it as the Dolphins drafted Tua to be a franchise QB and have had a lot more draft capital to surround him with an elite supporting unit. That statement is true. A lot of high draft picks filling slots on rookie contracts allows splashes in free agency too. With the amount of 1st and 2nd round picks they have had and still have, Tua only has to be Carr or Cousins to be competitive. I can see Tua landing in that range easily.

 

This was a solid pro Buffalo piece and they actually considered each team and where they were. NYJ - Saleh should be a solid coach and they have drafted well, Miami has an excellent coach and teams seem to love giving them high draft picks for not much in return. Pats - until the wooden stake is really driven home, no one will discount them. Everyone called Buffalo to repeat, and then noted who the next threat could be.

 

The only real dig I saw was about Bills fans writing a young QB off in year one. Minor snark, but he has a point. Tua, Wilson and Jones are basically unknowns. The Dolphins and Pats have solid cores, good coaching and unknown at QB. The Jets still have to prove they aren't the Jets.

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On 7/3/2021 at 1:35 PM, RaoulDuke79 said:

What has Tua done that would make anyone think he's going to be elite? He's average in every category. 

 

He is not. He is below average in QB height and hand size.

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8 hours ago, Patrick_Duffy said:

I see a few other people post this same thing, but if not a Bills fan that would be more familiar it's kinda expected. Allen had the worst WR core in Bills history imo and one of the worst I think I've ever seen in the whole league. Still he made some highlite plays, especially with his legs. But the surrounding cast he had in his rookie year played a major factor for sure.

 

I would say Tua had quite a bit better to work with than Allen. Not saying Allen didn't struggle, it's expected as a rookie, but WR' and OL for sure didn't help.

 

 

Miami started three rookies on their OL which ranked bottom 5 in the NFL, Parker is always hampered with an injury, their 3rd receiver opted out of the season, and their 2nd receiver was placed on IR in Tua's second start. Tua had to play with practice squad receivers down the stretch. He perhaps had a better supporting cast but it wasn't by as much as many think.

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7 hours ago, RoyBatty is alive said:

Tua sucks.

 

I saw him in a must win game versus the Bills where he choked and threw three interceptions in a 30 point blowout.

 

You are right, he doesnt have a cannon arm nor can he stiff-arm LBs,  Tua is small for an NFL QB and will be injury prone.  You cant coach size and he will never have it. At best he has a very low ceiling as an NFL QB due to his physical limitations.

 

Most of his wins last year were due to incredible defense and special teams play, he went along for the ride.

So one game defines a player? Besides injuring his finger, I didn't see any signs of Tua being injury prone like you believe. His arm is adequate enough whether you want to believe it or not. Every QB doesn't have a howlitzer like Allen.

 

What does team performance have to do with his success or lack thereof? Did he put Miami in worse situations while the defense and special teams scored every TD Miami scored last year? 

 

You know what they say about opinions...

 

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3 hours ago, HereComesTheReignAgain said:

Tua has had elite coaching and weapons since his high school days.  He did not enter the NFL as a raw prospect that had a lot to learn.  Tua may very well improve over the next few seasons, but he has much less potential for improvement than many other QBS coming from lesser programs.  Of course he also had less bust potential coming out of college too. 

 

Tua was pulled from multiple games when they needed a gutsy performance and replaced by a very average, but fearless,  Fitzpatrick.  Tua never seemed that upset by the move.  Was that due to him being a professional and not wanting to cause issues, or does he lack the killer instinct that all great QBs posses? 

You must have not paid attention to his performance. All of his receivers at Bama were schemed wide open, his blocking was perfect, had a RB to take the load off, etc. He rarely had to perform off-script, throw into tight windows, backshoulders, etc in college. How does a rookie come into the NFL not raw? LOL. Andrew Luck was the most pro-ready QB that I've personally witnessed and even he struggled in his rookie season.

 

 

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14 hours ago, DolFAN93 said:

 

Miami started three rookies on their OL which ranked bottom 5 in the NFL, Parker is always hampered with an injury, their 3rd receiver opted out of the season, and their 2nd receiver was placed on IR in Tua's second start. Tua had to play with practice squad receivers down the stretch. He perhaps had a better supporting cast but it wasn't by as much as many think.

 

14 hours ago, DolFAN93 said:

So one game defines a player? Besides injuring his finger, I didn't see any signs of Tua being injury prone like you believe. His arm is adequate enough whether you want to believe it or not. Every QB doesn't have a howlitzer like Allen.

 

What does team performance have to do with his success or lack thereof? Did he put Miami in worse situations while the defense and special teams scored every TD Miami scored last year? 

 

You know what they say about opinions...

 

 

14 hours ago, DolFAN93 said:

You must have not paid attention to his performance. All of his receivers at Bama were schemed wide open, his blocking was perfect, had a RB to take the load off, etc. He rarely had to perform off-script, throw into tight windows, backshoulders, etc in college. How does a rookie come into the NFL not raw? LOL. Andrew Luck was the most pro-ready QB that I've personally witnessed and even he struggled in his rookie season.

 

 

Watch out everyone, here come the excuses

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14 hours ago, DolFAN93 said:

So one game defines a player? Besides injuring his finger, I didn't see any signs of Tua being injury prone like you believe. His arm is adequate enough whether you want to believe it or not. Every QB doesn't have a howlitzer like Allen.

 

What does team performance have to do with his success or lack thereof? Did he put Miami in worse situations while the defense and special teams scored every TD Miami scored last year? 

 

You know what they say about opinions...

 

One game can define a quarterback,  it did for Tua

 

 

A QB can define himself in one game like a super bowl or a national championship or the last game of the year to get into the playoffs which Tua failed.

 

And he is injury prone and this is just in college;

 

https://www.sbnation.com/nfl/2020/4/23/21223883/tua-tagovailoa-injuries-timeline-nfl-draft-2020-alabama-miami-dolphins

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On 7/5/2021 at 7:37 AM, DolFAN93 said:

Did you watch all of Tua's snaps last season? Did you see him lead his to a win in his first start? Did you see him throw a well-placed 50 yard pass, from the endzone, down the field to a streaking WR who dropped a for sure 90 yard TD? Did you see his receivers drop the sixth most passes in the league?  Did you see him almost bring his team back down three scores against the SB contenders without his top three receivers?

 

We all know that Tua didn't have a good first year but he showed things that gave fans hope for the future. Every QB prospect isn't going to have a cannon arm and stiff-arm LBs like Allen. 

 

You mean his game versus the Rams where he fumbled in the first series , threw for 93 yards and 0 yards rushing?  LOL  That was a special team & defense victory, crediting Tua is laughable.

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58 minutes ago, RoyBatty is alive said:

One game can define a quarterback,  it did for Tua

 

 

A QB can define himself in one game like a super bowl or a national championship or the last game of the year to get into the playoffs which Tua failed.

 

And he is injury prone and this is just in college;

 

https://www.sbnation.com/nfl/2020/4/23/21223883/tua-tagovailoa-injuries-timeline-nfl-draft-2020-alabama-miami-dolphins

His Wrs that game

 

Robert Foster

Calvin Ridley

Jerry Jeudy

Henry Ruggs

Davonte Smith

 

4 1st rounders. Holy smokes

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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, Captain Hindsight said:

His Wrs that game

 

Robert Foster

Calvin Ridley

Jerry Jeudy

Henry Ruggs

Davonte Smith

 

4 1st rounders. Holy smokes

 Yes, you go from Alabama and enter the pros and the surrounding talent goes down on a relative basis..

 

I cant wait to see how Mac Jones does.  The days of near perfect protection throwing to  receivers with incredible hands that are wide open are going to end brutally for him.  To me he is by far the most interesting of all the draft picks.  Chris Simms should have considered him a potential total bust.  Just wait till every play he has to throw it in a very narrow window under 3 seconds before he gets killed.

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1 minute ago, RoyBatty is alive said:

 Yes, you go from Alabama and enter the pros and the surrounding talent can go down.

 

I cant wait to see how Mac Jones does.  The days of near perfect protection throwing to  receivers with incredible hands that are wide open are going to end brutally for him.  To me he is by far the most interesting of all the draft picks.  Chris Simms should have considered him a potential total bust.  Just wait till every play he has to throw it in a very narrow window under 3 seconds before he gets killed.

For some reason I see Jones as being just another, or similar to AJ McCarron.

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47 minutes ago, RoyBatty is alive said:

 Yes, you go from Alabama and enter the pros and the surrounding talent can go down.

 

I cant wait to see how Mac Jones does.  The days of near perfect protection throwing to  receivers with incredible hands that are wide open are going to end brutally for him.  To me he is by far the most interesting of all the draft picks.  Chris Simms should have considered him a potential total bust.  Just wait till every play he has to throw it in a very narrow window under 3 seconds before he gets killed.

It's not that the surrounding talent goes down, it's that the opposing talent increases by an incredible amount.  He won't have the windows to throw through, the wide receivers won't be as wide open, and the talent on the other side of the ball are smarter and faster than anything he has faced before

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Posted (edited)
22 hours ago, DolFAN93 said:

You must have not paid attention to his performance. All of his receivers at Bama were schemed wide open, his blocking was perfect, had a RB to take the load off, etc. He rarely had to perform off-script, throw into tight windows, backshoulders, etc in college. How does a rookie come into the NFL not raw? LOL. Andrew Luck was the most pro-ready QB that I've personally witnessed and even he struggled in his rookie season.

 

 

 

I can certainly agree, since it was abundantly evident from his play last year, that Tua was raw. No doubt a lot of that had to do not only with the competitive advantage he had playing for Alabama in college, but also because he was being asked, especially by Chan Gailey, to do things he probably had never done before and which scheme wise did not necessarily play to his strengths. The things you mention specifically as challenges, performing off-script, throwing into tight windows, making that back shoulder throw away from the DB and the like are exactly the things he experienced problems with. Tua’s arm looks to me to be strong and accurate enuf to execute a short to medium range timing offence where he stays in the pocket, which he seems to work well with good footwork and elusiveness. His long ball looks to be generally accurate too and now he’s got Fuller to stretch the field and Waddle to hit on crossing patterns underneath. He also can show good touch at times. He knows how to use his eyes to hold DBs as plays develop for his primary target. He’s not a running QB of course, but he can help himself out with his legs when plays breakdown. There are reasons why he was picked #5.

What I think he will never be able to do, as you put it, is perform off-script, to improvise on the fly outside the pocket. He is quite simply not big enuf, strong enuf, fast enuf or athletic enuf to do that. Some of Allen/Diggs best moments were totally unscripted. I don’t think you will ever see that from Tua, which is another reason for thinking that he is likely to be somewhat limited to executing a strictly disciplined, structured timing offence exclusively. Now its up to your OC to design the right system and play calls and for the staff to coach up all the talent that has been drafted to help him out.

Its just a guess but I would not be surprised if Tua developed into a legit starting calibre QB, though of course he still has to prove it. I don’t see him as an elite prospect for playing the all important position.

Edited by starrymessenger
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7 hours ago, starrymessenger said:

 

I can certainly agree, since it was abundantly evident from his play last year, that Tua was raw. No doubt a lot of that had to do not only with the competitive advantage he had playing for Alabama in college, but also because he was being asked, especially by Chan Gailey, to do things he probably had never done before and which scheme wise did not necessarily play to his strengths. The things you mention specifically as challenges, performing off-script, throwing into tight windows, making that back shoulder throw away from the DB and the like are exactly the things he experienced problems with. Tua’s arm looks to me to be strong and accurate enuf to execute a short to medium range timing offence where he stays in the pocket, which he seems to work well with good footwork and elusiveness. His long ball looks to be generally accurate too and now he’s got Fuller to stretch the field and Waddle to hit on crossing patterns underneath. He also can show good touch at times. He knows how to use his eyes to hold DBs as plays develop for his primary target. He’s not a running QB of course, but he can help himself out with his legs when plays breakdown. There are reasons why he was picked #5.

What I think he will never be able to do, as you put it, is perform off-script, to improvise on the fly outside the pocket. He is quite simply not big enuf, strong enuf, fast enuf or athletic enuf to do that. Some of Allen/Diggs best moments were totally unscripted. I don’t think you will ever see that from Tua, which is another reason for thinking that he is likely to be somewhat limited to executing a strictly disciplined, structured timing offence exclusively. Now its up to your OC to design the right system and play calls and for the staff to coach up all the talent that has been drafted to help him out.

Its just a guess but I would not be surprised if Tua developed into a legit starting calibre QB, though of course he still has to prove it. I don’t see him as an elite prospect for playing the all important position.

The most rational take that I've seen from an opposing fan. It's difficult to disagree with anything. I do think he can make a play or two unscripted from time-to-time but as you said, that's not his game. 

 

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As long as Allen stays healthy and his numbers don't significantly regress it's hard to disagree with the notion of the bills being clear division favorites especially if this coaching staff can properly manage expectations and guard against complacency.

 

My only pause for concern is looking at totality of both the Dolphins and Patriots rosters and the potential ceiling of each if they get even average QB play in 2021.

 

Dolphins IMO have a marginally better overall roster than the Bills minus QB and their 2020 campaign mirrors what the Bills did in 2019 minus the playoff birth. So it's not out of the realm of possibility to expect a big jump if Tua shows marked improvement and overtake the Bills for the division title this year.

 

As for the Patriots, you can argue on paper they have the best defense in the division, if not a top 3 unit in the NFL with all the key players they are getting back from opt outs and offseason additions. I think on offense they overpaid for marginal talent but if Newton has even an average type of season they are also right up there as a legit threat to the division given Belichik's track record.

 

Long story short, don't expect another 6-0 run against the division and a much tougher fight in which the division may not be decided until the final week of the season.

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