Biden creates an economic crisis--Unemployment, Inflation, risk of STAGLFATION increasing

[Chef Jim]

52 minutes ago, Irv said:

Appraisers will be needed for everything:  cars, boats, homes, jewelry, art, land, uncut lumber, unharvested fruits and grains, precious metals, stock options, You name it. What a mess.  
 

 

 

And figuring out what the basis is on all that.  It's dumb and it's all done for show.  But why does no one ask him "Mr President.  Do you agree that it will be an annual accounting nightmare to figure out the market value as well as the basis of those assets?"  I was thinking you'd only need to compute basis once but you buy a home for $1,00,000 and you put $500k worth of work into it in any given year the new basis is $1,500,000.  There are not enough appraisers/CPA/Accounts in the world to figure this all out. I have to agree with you.....WAM!!  

[sherpa]

1 hour ago, Irv said:

Appraisers will be needed for everything:  cars, boats, homes, jewelry, art, land, uncut lumber, unharvested fruits and grains, precious metals, stock options, You name it. What a mess.  
 

 

 

Nope.

Just one.

Elizabeth Warren.

 

The concept is insane.

Jefferson warned us centuries ago about having lawyers run the country.

Now its proposed to be lawyers and accountants.

[Over 29 years of fanhood]

1 hour ago, Chef Jim said:

I would assume the unrealized losses would be used to offset the unrealized gains. 🤷🏻‍♂️ It would be a total accounting cluster *****.  The amount of accounting work that would be required on an annual basis to determine current market value vs basis for these wealthy people would be crazy.  And the amount of accounting shenanigans that will likely go on?  They don’t think before they throw this ***** out there.  
 

So instead of bitching I have ideas. First get rid of the step up in basis.  You inherit the basis. So if/when you sell the asset you pay gains from when the asset was originally purchased. No more inter-generational wealth being passed on via the step up. Second bring back the stretch IRA that the Trump administration did away with.  There are so many flaws in this.  I understand the reasoning was to collect tax dollars today instead of spreading it out over a lifetime.  But again, so many issues with this. Third incentivize Roth conversions.  This would alleviate the taxes lost by bringing back the stretch. Not sure how you incentivize them other than education.  But they are a great tool. 

I’m all for taxing the daylights out of inheritance. The very last reason anyone should become wealthy is because their daddy was. 

[Chef Jim]

1 minute ago, Over 29 years of fanhood said:

I’m all for taxing the daylights out of inheritance. The very last reason anyone should become wealthy is because their daddy was. 

 

Taxed upon inheritance?  

[sherpa]

2 minutes ago, Over 29 years of fanhood said:

I’m all for taxing the daylights out of inheritance. The very last reason anyone should become wealthy is because their daddy was. 

 

That gets very complicated when real estate is part of the calculus.

 

Bills fans are no stranger to appreciating assets and the tax problems they cause.

[Over 29 years of fanhood]

1 minute ago, Chef Jim said:

 

Taxed upon inheritance?  

Yes. And Sure there are caveats and challenges to be considered as with all proposed solutions, but generational wealth transfer is a fundamental problem, for lots of reasons.  Everyone should have to earn their own way to some degree, and it shouldn’t be that one wealthy billionaire can spawn hundreds of years of wealthy descendants. 

[SoCal Deek]

6 minutes ago, Over 29 years of fanhood said:

I’m all for taxing the daylights out of inheritance. The very last reason anyone should become wealthy is because their daddy was. 

I didn’t make the money I have so that YOU could take what’s left of it when I die….rich or not. 

[Chef Jim]

1 minute ago, Over 29 years of fanhood said:

Yes. And Sure there are caveats and challenges to be considered as with all proposed solutions, but generational wealth transfer is a fundamental problem, for lots of reasons.  Everyone should have to earn their own way to some degree, and it shouldn’t be that one wealthy billionaire can spawn hundreds of years of wealthy descendants. 

 

That's asinine!  

 

It would be a huge boon for the life insurance industry.  

[Over 29 years of fanhood]

4 minutes ago, SoCal Deek said:

I didn’t make the money I have so that YOU could take what’s left of it when I die….rich or not. 

I don’t want it- I’m a net payer by a whole lot. But why should Deek the third be wealthy just because you were? 
 

Todays Plutocracy is a thinly veiled monarchy of yesteryear. 

[sherpa]

8 minutes ago, Over 29 years of fanhood said:

 But why should Deek the third be wealthy just because you were? 
 

 

Because Deek the first took risk and invested capital to ensure it for his progeny, like we all try to do.

The government has never proposed a reasonable solution to this, and having a third party determine asset value is crazy.

[Over 29 years of fanhood]

19 minutes ago, Chef Jim said:

 

That's asinine!  

 

It would be a huge boon for the life insurance industry.  

 
Got it, you are for wealthy elites ruling the roost for generations then correct? 

2 minutes ago, sherpa said:

 

Because Deek the first took risk and invested capital to ensure it for his progeny, like we all try to do.

The government has never proposed a reasonable solution to this, and having a third party determine asset value is crazy.

Deek the first was rewarded for his risk by generating vast wealth for himself. It certainly wasn’t a risk shared by Deek the third who received the hand down after Deek unfortunately and eventually passed on.  

Edited March 29, 2022 by Over 29 years of fanhood

[SoCal Deek]

12 minutes ago, Over 29 years of fanhood said:

I don’t want it- I’m a net payer by a whole lot. But why should Deek the third be wealthy just because you were? 
 

Todays Plutocracy is a thinly veiled monarchy of yesteryear. 

Because Deek the third is why and who I saved MY money for! What did you for me? Did I not donate enough of my money every April 15th? Will not Deek the Third continue to do so with any gains from it next April 15th? 

[Chef Jim]

1 minute ago, Over 29 years of fanhood said:

 
Got it, you are for wealthy elites ruling the roost for generations then correct? 

Huh?  This would affect everyone not just the wealthy. 🙄

 

As a matter of fact the middle class would likely get ***** in the ass harder. As usual. 

[Over 29 years of fanhood]

1 minute ago, Chef Jim said:

Huh?  This would affect everyone not just the wealthy. 🙄

 

As a matter of fact the middle class would likely get ***** in the ass harder. As usual. 

So set a floor and rapid escalating rate of taxation….  I mean a little exercise in constructive thinking maybe… 🙄 

So where should the tax money come from?  I personally fund a small neighborhood of households every year. But they tell me it’s not enough. 

[SoCal Deek]

2 minutes ago, Over 29 years of fanhood said:

So set a floor and rapid escalating rate of taxation….  I mean a little exercise in constructive thinking maybe… 🙄 

So where should the tax money come from?  I personally fund a small neighborhood of households every year. But they tell me it’s not enough. 

How about if we want everyone to reap the benefit from this ‘village’ then we have everyone pay the same percentage of their income into maintaining it?
 

And, how about we significantly lower the cost of maintaining the ‘village’? 

[Over 29 years of fanhood]

1 minute ago, SoCal Deek said:

How about if we want everyone to reap the benefit from this ‘village’ then we have everyone pay the same percentage of their income into maintaining it?
 

And, how about we significantly lower the cost of maintaining the ‘village’? 

All for the second one, to the first, your thinking is someone making 30k per year should pay rhe same portion of their income to taxes like someone who makes several million? 

[Chef Jim]

4 minutes ago, Over 29 years of fanhood said:

So set a floor and rapid escalating rate of taxation….  I mean a little exercise in constructive thinking maybe… 🙄 

So where should the tax money come from?  I personally fund a small neighborhood of households every year. But they tell me it’s not enough. 

Yes constructive thinking indeed. So your idea is to create something that has never been done before?  Tax unrealized gains?  Tax illiquid assets?  Where’s the liquidity going to come from?  Lots of family businesses well be sold and likely for pennies on the dollar.  Again….asinine. 
 

My idea of doing away with the basis step up makes a lot more sense. 

[SoCal Deek]

Just now, Over 29 years of fanhood said:

All for the second one, to the first, your thinking is someone making 30k per year should pay rhe same portion of their income to taxes like someone who makes several million? 

Yes…they should. You’ll be surprised how fast this will accomplish goal Number Two.

 

And before you think I’m totally nuts, I’ve long proposed a system of transition where this would be put into place. Nobody cares about their GROSS income. They only care about their NET income. It wouldn’t be hard to make the adjustment in everyone’s GROSS so that their 2023 NET would remain unchanged. 

[sherpa]

It would be enormously informative if some think tank would model a simulation to see what a taxation of unrealized gains would cause.

At what date would this determination of asset values be made?

Can you imagine the market distortions this would cause in the month prior to this date.

 

It is a horrible idea, but leads to the greater point, which is that the less government screws with the personal, financial choices of those who fund it, the better.

32 minutes ago, Over 29 years of fanhood said:

Deek the first was rewarded for his risk by generating vast wealth for himself. It certainly wasn’t a risk shared by Deek the third who received the hand down after Deek unfortunately and eventually passed on.  

 

The problem with that is Deek the first might not be willing to take that risk and create that wealth if he knew if was going to confiscated by the least efficient spending institution in history.

[Over 29 years of fanhood]

8 minutes ago, Chef Jim said:

Yes constructive thinking indeed. So your idea is to create something that has never been done before?  Tax unrealized gains?  Tax illiquid assets?  Where’s the liquidity going to come from?  Lots of family businesses well be sold and likely for pennies on the dollar.  Again….asinine. 
 

My idea of doing away with the basis step up makes a lot more sense. 

the thought is to put an end to the scenario where some billionaire like Rockefeller spawns hundreds of years of wealthy descendants. The mechanics of how to achieve that are a welcome Conversation 

 

That illiquid asset argument doesn’t do it for me.  Gramps keeled over so I now own his 5000 acre farm? Poor me.. it’s still an asset I didn’t earn myself. 
 

Why is everyone so afraid to stand on their own two feet? 

[Over 29 years of fanhood]

6 minutes ago, sherpa said:

 

 

The problem with that is Deek the first might not be willing to take that risk and create that wealth if he knew if was going to confiscated by the least efficient spending institution in history.

 Then someone else will. Their are plenty of risk takers who are motivated by more than just what they directly pass on. Buffet and Gates are examples.

 

od love to advocate for rational spending and fiscal control, but no such political faction exists in the United States.  
 

somehow these wealthy elites need to be hindered from sustained power. See the 4 families that have run California for decades. It’s a vicious circle. 

[sherpa]

5 minutes ago, Over 29 years of fanhood said:

 

That illiquid asset argument doesn’t do it for me.  Gramps keeled over so I now own his 5000 acre farm? Poor me.. it’s still an asset I didn’t earn myself. 

 

The issue isn't that you didn't "earn" it.

The issue is that the government is forcing you to sell it because they have stapled an unaffordable expense to keeping it in the family. 

[Chef Jim]

Just now, Over 29 years of fanhood said:

the thought is to put an end to the scenario where some billionaire like Rockefeller spawns hundreds of years of wealthy descendants. The mechanics of how to achieve that are a welcome Conversation 

 

That illiquid asset argument doesn’t do it for me.  Gramps keeled over so I now own his 5000 acre farm? Poor me.. it’s still an asset I didn’t earn myself. 
 

Why is everyone so afraid to stand on their own two feet? 

What if the only reason gramps was able to keep the farm was because I and my family worked it. So gramps dies this 5,000 acre farm becomes taxable to me.  I don’t have the liquidity to pay the taxes. Whoops….there goes my family’s livelihood.

 

There are dozens of scenarios where this is asinine.  Why potentially force the sale?  And often at a fire sale price to raise the liquidity to pay the taxes. Why are you wanting to punish people based on their ancestry?   Those business often employ thousands and generate millions in tax revenue every year. Those jobs and tax revenue could very well go poof under your idea. 

[SoCal Deek]

8 minutes ago, Over 29 years of fanhood said:

 Then someone else will. Their are plenty of risk takers who are motivated by more than just what they directly pass on. Buffet and Gates are examples.

 

od love to advocate for rational spending and fiscal control, but no such political faction exists in the United States.  
 

somehow these wealthy elites need to be hindered from sustained power. See the 4 families that have run California for decades. It’s a vicious circle. 

And you want punish their success? On who’s right? Yours? We are in big trouble! 

[Over 29 years of fanhood]

13 minutes ago, Chef Jim said:

What if the only reason gramps was able to keep the farm was because I and my family worked it. So gramps dies this 5,000 acre farm becomes taxable to me.  I don’t have the liquidity to pay the taxes. Whoops….there goes my family’s livelihood.

 

There are dozens of scenarios where this is asinine.  Why potentially force the sale?  And often at a fire sale price to raise the liquidity to pay the taxes. Why are you wanting to punish people based on their ancestry?   Those business often employ thousands and generate millions in tax revenue every year. Those jobs and tax revenue could very well go poof under your idea. 

What is it 1953? If you don’t think the long standing republicans talking point family farm scenario can be distinguished and accommodated for in tax code then you’re right it most likely just impossible to prevent billionaires from skirting taxes and enriching generations to come… 

 

oh well. God save the queen

6 minutes ago, SoCal Deek said:

And you want punish their success? On who’s right? Yours? We are in big trouble! 

I want to isolate their success to them and themselves.
 

Obviously trust fund kids lined up for substantial inheritance hate the idea, because heyyou earned it, by being conceived by someone who was willing to do some work. 

Edited March 29, 2022 by Over 29 years of fanhood

[Chef Jim]

1 minute ago, Over 29 years of fanhood said:

What is it 1953? If you don’t think the long standing republicans talking point family farm scenario can be distinguished and accommodated for in tax code then you’re right it most likely just impossible to prevent billionaires from skirting taxes and enriching generations to come… 

 

How would you distinguish it and accommodate it?  
 

What taxes are billionaires skirting? You do realize that they will lose 40% of the value of the majority of their estate at death right?  You want to pile on another potential 20% cap gains tax?  

5 minutes ago, Over 29 years of fanhood said:

 

I want to isolate their success to them and themselves. 

Yeah ***** their families!!!  🙄

[Over 29 years of fanhood]

7 minutes ago, Chef Jim said:

What taxes are billionaires skirting? 

If you know any financial planners or tax advisors ask them this question as you will get an explanation if they are half way decent at their job. 

😂 

[SoCal Deek]

15 minutes ago, Over 29 years of fanhood said:

What is it 1953? If you don’t think the long standing republicans talking point family farm scenario can be distinguished and accommodated for in tax code then you’re right it most likely just impossible to prevent billionaires from skirting taxes and enriching generations to come… 

 

oh well. God save the queen

I want to isolate their success to them and themselves.
 

Obviously trust fund kids lined up for substantial inheritance hate the idea, because heyyou earned it, by being conceived by someone who was willing to do some work. 

Once again….by who’s right? Do I know you? Did I raise you? Did you bring me Christmas presents every year? 
 

Just keep to yourself and leave my devoted family out of it….or….let’s do away with the amount I can transfer to my heirs while I’m alive so it doesn’t have to wait until your government vultures swoop down on my casket!

[Chef Jim]

5 minutes ago, Over 29 years of fanhood said:

If you know any financial planners or tax advisors ask them this question as you will get an explanation if they are half way decent at their job. 

😂

Yeah I know a couple. 🙄
 

But anyway you’re ok with the government taking up to 60% of someone’s estate upon their death?

Edited March 29, 2022 by Chef Jim

[Over 29 years of fanhood]

2 minutes ago, SoCal Deek said:

Once again….by who’s right? Do I know you? Did I raise you? Did you bring me Christmas presents every year? 
 

Just keep to yourself and leave my devoted family out of it….or….let’s do away with the amount I can transfer to my heirs while I’m alive so it doesn’t have to wait until your government vultures swoop down on my casket!

Government Vultures swoop in every pay day. So you have zero issue with wealthy parents=wealthy kids?

 

Ok some are simply for aristocracy as a societal norm. That’s your prerogative, but it leads for the wrong people maintaining control over the levers of power. 

[SoCal Deek]

3 minutes ago, Over 29 years of fanhood said:

Government Vultures swoop in every pay day. So you have zero issue with wealthy parents=wealthy kids?

 

Ok some are simply for aristocracy as a societal norm. That’s your prerogative, but it leads for the wrong people maintaining control over the levers of power. 

Yes, the swoop in every day and I pay them a percentage for the NEW money that’s been generated (income, gains, interest). I don’t pay them (and neither do you) for money that hasn’t done anything but sit there. 

And as to your concern for the ‘wrong’ people having money….again I’ll ask you why you think you should be the ultimate decider of who gets money? Money doesn’t make good people bad. And not having money doesn’t make them good or bad either. You’re working off a very very flawed nexus. 

[Over 29 years of fanhood]

5 minutes ago, Chef Jim said:

Yeah I know a couple. 🙄
 

But anyway you’re ok with the government taking up to 60% of someone’s estate upon their death?

I’m not sure exactly what I am ok with, but there are two fundamental problems I’d like to solve:

 

- republicans and democrats can’t seem to stop stealing and spending our money

- the elites in control that allow this to continue seem to be underpinned by the generationally wealthy who pass money and power down generation to generation

 

if syphoning off that wealth transfer won’t address the situation I’m certainly receptive to what will.

[SoCal Deek]

Just now, Over 29 years of fanhood said:

I’m not sure exactly what I am ok with, but there are two fundamental problems I’d like to solve:

 

- republicans and democrats can’t seem to stop stealing and spending our money

- the elites in control that allow this to continue seem to be underpinned by the generationally wealthy who pass money and power down generation to generation

 

if syphoning off that wealth transfer won’t address the situation I’m certainly receptive to what will.

With all due respect...you have this backward. Most people in politics didn't go in wealthy.  The problem is that most of them come out wealthy.  Let's attack that problem first, and then move on to other, less significant ones.

[OrangeBills]

1 hour ago, Over 29 years of fanhood said:

All for the second one, to the first, your thinking is someone making 30k per year should pay rhe same portion of their income to taxes like someone who makes several million? 

 

It's a good question you ask...my personal view (long gone from possibility) would be that low-income pay not much, middle-class pays more (as a %-age of their income) and the wealthy pay a much higher %-age AND we have a much smaller Federal Gov't that focuses on the things that a Federal Gov't in a Republic should focus on...

 

 

[Chef Jim]

2 minutes ago, Over 29 years of fanhood said:

I’m not sure exactly what I am ok with, but there are two fundamental problems I’d like to solve:

 

- republicans and democrats can’t seem to stop stealing and spending our money

- the elites in control that allow this to continue seem to be underpinned by the generationally wealthy who pass money and power down generation to generation

 

if syphoning off that wealth transfer won’t address the situation I’m certainly receptive to what will.

Stop vilifying the Uber wealthy.  Almost every one of them got where they are through crazy hard work and sometimes unfathomable risk.  If this means they have created a means to pass that lifestyle to their children and grandchildren so be it.  Isn’t that what you want for your children? 

 

***** the taxes! How about we stop the spending!!  I just heard about the amount the state wants to give in tax revenue for a new stadium for the Bills. What will the state have to give up to fund this?  Not sure if this is accurate but if it is I hate professional sports now more than ever. 
 

https://vm.tiktok.com/TTPdmkHmr6/

[Precision]

40 minutes ago, Chef Jim said:

Stop vilifying the Uber wealthy.  Almost every one of them got where they are through crazy hard work and sometimes unfathomable risk.  If this means they have created a means to pass that lifestyle to their children and grandchildren so be it.  Isn’t that what you want for your children? 

 

***** the taxes! How about we stop the spending!!  I just heard about the amount the state wants to give in tax revenue for a new stadium for the Bills. What will the state have to give up to fund this?  Not sure if this is accurate but if it is I hate professional sports now more than ever. 
 

https://vm.tiktok.com/TTPdmkHmr6/

The existing estate taxes don't just apply to the Uber wealthy. 

 

If either my wife or I live into our 80's our assets will easily eclipse the $12 million exclusion limit.  We do not consider ourselves wealthy and we live a modest lifestyle.  Our wealth was accumulated over 35 years through hard work, saving, investing, and maxing out tax deferred investments.

 

We already have a plan in place so our assets in excess of the exclusion limit will be given to relatives and charities rather than allow a penny to go to the federal government.  Our children will have to make due with whatever is left below the limit. 

[Chef Jim]

15 minutes ago, Precision said:

The existing estate taxes don't just apply to the Uber wealthy. 

 

If either my wife or I live into our 80's our assets will easily eclipse the $12 million exclusion limit.  We do not consider ourselves wealthy and we live a modest lifestyle.  Our wealth was accumulated over 35 years through hard work, saving, investing, and maxing out tax deferred investments.

 

We already have a plan in place so our assets in excess of the exclusion limit will be given to relatives and charities rather than allow a penny to go to the federal government.  Our children will have to make due with whatever is left below the limit. 

 

Well the lifetime exclusion is $12m each so as of now between you and your spouse you have $24m to gift over your lifetime free of estate taxes.......for now.  It's set to sunset in 2026 back to $5m each.  It could sunset lower or sooner.  We have no idea.  So gift now while the exclusion is higher.  

 

 

[Over 29 years of fanhood]

1 hour ago, Chef Jim said:

Stop vilifying the Uber wealthy.  Almost every one of them got where they are through crazy hard work and sometimes unfathomable risk.  If this means they have created a means to pass that lifestyle to their children and grandchildren so be it.  Isn’t that what you want for your children? 

 

***** the taxes! How about we stop the spending!!  I just heard about the amount the state wants to give in tax revenue for a new stadium for the Bills. What will the state have to give up to fund this?  Not sure if this is accurate but if it is I hate professional sports now more than ever. 
 

https://vm.tiktok.com/TTPdmkHmr6/

 

Who’s vilifying anyone. You yourself make the very distinction I am speaking of. THEY worked hard (although I promise the non billionaire local landscaping guy works pretty hard too) their kids just happened to ride the right sperm or egg and for that a lifelong windfall of wealth. Where’s the merit in that?? That’s how monarchies worked. I want my children to be achieve their own success not have it handed to them, by me or anyone else. 
 

and it’s ridiculous that tax payers pay hundreds of millions of dollars for a new stadium that won’t be much different than the current one and be used less than 10 times a year, to support a business that’s making insane money already.
 

Stop spending???? Who’s going to do that? Every new administration has outspent the last since Truman. 

Edited March 29, 2022 by Over 29 years of fanhood

[Chef Jim]

9 minutes ago, Over 29 years of fanhood said:

 

Who’s vilifying anyone. You yourself make the very distinction I am speaking of. THEY worked hard (although I promise the non billionaire local landscaping guy works pretty hard too) their kids just happened to ride the right sperm or egg and for that a lifelong windfall of wealth. Where’s the merit in that?? That’s how monarchies worked. I want my children to be achieve their own success not have it handed to them, by me or anyone else. 

 

So you've written your children out of your will?  

 

Yes or no.  

[Over 29 years of fanhood]

Just now, Chef Jim said:

 

So you've written your children out of your will?  

 

Yes or no.  

Always the extremes with you. I will not pass on generational wealth to them, even if I get there, no.