Random Political Thoughts Inc.

[Joe Ferguson forever]

21 minutes ago, leh-nerd skin-erd said:

What exactly is this an example of—apathy? 
 

I’ll give you a better example by changing the facts slightly. 
 

You call the the CEO, you tell him that the certain actions of the public pose a massive threat to the citizens of the county.   You believe that because the science tells you so, and you preach a lockdown mentality to every patient you encounter.  You suggest in the same video docs getting shots and speaking poignantly about how the virus spreads, that mass gatherings are guaranteed to cause spread, suffering and death on a global scale. 
 

The CEO says, “I don’t know, it seems like a lot of work. I don’t think it’s the role of the medical profession to spread the word about virus, transmission and death.”

 

You say “Yeah, it’s the politicians job anyway.” 

 

 

 

 

 

I guess you've never been in a meeting in a health system exec suite.  Not how it works.  My initial email said everything you mentioned.  Didn't matter.  The reason?  Much of this area is deep red and the commercial might hurt market share.  In that sense, posters here are absolutely correct in the assertion that greed has overtaken care.

Edited June 6, 2023 by redtail hawk

[leh-nerd skin-erd]

33 minutes ago, The Frankish Reich said:

I will admit it: I'm a glass half full guy. Maybe it's just my disposition, maybe it's because I have faith in humanity, I don't know.

Three and a half years after the virus was first detected, I have to say that we made a lot of mistakes in responding to the virus, but the virus did not end civilization, the economy did not collapse, we lost a lot of family members and other loved ones to it, but we muddled through with a generally effective (at times, heavy-handed, but effective) collective response, including a remarkably fast and (yes) effective development new category of vaccines that put us in a better place for dealing with this situation in the future.

At this point, I am just getting tired of the negativity. We did well as a country (and a world, perhaps minus China) when faced with the real possibility of the kind of devastation not seen since the Black Death. Sometimes you declare victory and also try to learn from your mistakes. 

Thanks for the measured response.  I get your perspective and believe it or not, I attempt to be reasonable in my assessment of the parties involved.  I initially thought Andrew Cuomo was doing a good job handling NY--I mean, who really wants to be a position where the world is at a tipping point?  

 

As I said, I followed the rules, followed protocol, masked up, maintained distance and avoided people at risk.  I listened to Faucci, listened to the science, closed my office to walk in clients, paid for my employees to work remotely, and so on.  I got vaxxed when I could...vaxxed/vaxxed/boosted.  I watched the democrats attempting to blow up the Trumpian response knowing full well that Republiacns would have done their level best to blow up a Dem response under the same scenario.

 

That said...a glass is half-full ideology does not preclude me from calling out obvious and systemic hypocrisy, nor the fallout that surely follows.  Quite the opposite, in fact, my job is to protect and guide my family in spite of my own shortcomings. 

 

I've said a lot on this issue, but it comes down to this:

• Those leaders (medical, cultural, political) who called for lockdowns while looking the other way on social protests/inaug/etc were either grossly incompetent, and should not be trusted in the future; or
• Those same leaders knew more than they lead on, continued to support lockdowns for the compliant long after they knew they were unnecessary, and should not be trusted in the future;
• They knew the virus would spread and desired the transmission and death that would follow for political reasons, and obviously should not be trusted in the future;

I'm open to other glass-half-full explanations, but being an optimist and belief in humanity as a whole does not negate the necessity of applying critical thinking skills to something a scenario like this. 

 

Big picture--when the next pandemic hits, there is ample blame to be laid at the feet of 'leaders' for the cynicism that surely follows. 

 

 

[leh-nerd skin-erd]

52 minutes ago, redtail hawk said:

I guess you've never been in a meeting in a health system exec suite.  Not how it works.  My initial email said everything you mentioned.  Didn't matter.  The reason?  Much of this area is deep red and the commercial might hurt market share.  In that sense, posters here are absolutely correct in the assertion that greed has overtaken care.

No, I've never been in a meeting in a health system exec suite.  I have, however, met and interacted with executives from Fortune 50 companies, a substantial number of wealthy and powerful people, a former governor of NY, and some high-ranking folks in NYS government.   On the other hand, I've met with people struggling to get by, those solidly in the middle class, people who were were subsequently the victim of violent crime, reformed criminals, and in at least one case, a guy caught up in a murder for hire scheme.  My experiences are diverse, and my opinions shaped by my experience. 

 

I'm happy to leave it at an impasse on Faucci's role in all this. We'll not agree, and that's fine. 

[The Frankish Reich]

16 minutes ago, leh-nerd skin-erd said:

Thanks for the measured response.  I get your perspective and believe it or not, I attempt to be reasonable in my assessment of the parties involved.  I initially thought Andrew Cuomo was doing a good job handling NY--I mean, who really wants to be a position where the world is at a tipping point?  

 

As I said, I followed the rules, followed protocol, masked up, maintained distance and avoided people at risk.  I listened to Faucci, listened to the science, closed my office to walk in clients, paid for my employees to work remotely, and so on.  I got vaxxed when I could...vaxxed/vaxxed/boosted.  I watched the democrats attempting to blow up the Trumpian response knowing full well that Republiacns would have done their level best to blow up a Dem response under the same scenario.

 

That said...a glass is half-full ideology does not preclude me from calling out obvious and systemic hypocrisy, nor the fallout that surely follows.  Quite the opposite, in fact, my job is to protect and guide my family in spite of my own shortcomings. 

 

I've said a lot on this issue, but it comes down to this:

• Those leaders (medical, cultural, political) who called for lockdowns while looking the other way on social protests/inaug/etc were either grossly incompetent, and should not be trusted in the future; or
• Those same leaders knew more than they lead on, continued to support lockdowns for the compliant long after they knew they were unnecessary, and should not be trusted in the future;
• They knew the virus would spread and desired the transmission and death that would follow for political reasons, and obviously should not be trusted in the future;

I'm open to other glass-half-full explanations, but being an optimist and belief in humanity as a whole does not negate the necessity of applying critical thinking skills to something a scenario like this. 

 

Big picture--when the next pandemic hits, there is ample blame to be laid at the feet of 'leaders' for the cynicism that surely follows. 

 

 

Thanks. Every know and then a reasoned discussion breaks out here ...

 

... My take: I knew people in NYC who were scared in March and April 2020. Really scared. And for good reason. People dying in their buildings. People staged in hospital corridors. People needed ventilators to save their lives and there weren't enough ventilators to save their lives.

 

By mid-summer 2020, we started to understand the virus better. We knew by then that some things were really important (avoiding large numbers of people in enclosed spaces, improving air circulation), some not (avoiding large groups outdoors, wiping down surfaces like maniacs). But governments and businesses were conservative by nature. Nobody wanted to be the guy who opened the floodgates to the virus. 

 

We also knew vaccines were coming, and it was prudent to wait for vaccines that were showing great promise. The vaccines came, and by summer 2021 it was probably the time to eliminate most restrictions, but too many states and businesses (and countries) kept them in place. Again, conservatism, in the old small "c" sense of the word.

 

I don't see any conspiracies here, just well-meaning people scared of the virus, and then scared of being the one who stepped out front to repeal restrictions. Did some politicians/unions/interest groups see the virus as also offering an opportunity? Of course. They always do. That's to be expected. But no crazy conspiracies. 

 

We did o.k. Really, better than o.k. Those early days were scary. We heard about what was happening in China, and saw what was happening in NYC, on Indian reservations, in norther Italy, etc. We largely prevented those kinds of horrific outbreaks in the USA and indeed in most of the developed world. We got too dug in and stuck with restrictive measures too long. But science did respond with remarkable speed with effective if imperfect vaccines. We should pat ourselves on the back and then do a full after-action report about what worked, what didn't, and what worked initially but was kept in place too long. 

[leh-nerd skin-erd]

1 minute ago, The Frankish Reich said:

Thanks. Every know and then a reasoned discussion breaks out here ...

 

... My take: I knew people in NYC who were scared in March and April 2020. Really scared. And for good reason. People dying in their buildings. People staged in hospital corridors. People needed ventilators to save their lives and there weren't enough ventilators to save their lives.

People were scared everywhere.  Early on (like maybe a day or two before the lockdowns were mandated) I met with a gentleman I know who was healthy on a Tuesday, and a friend shared a Fb post from his wife on that Saturday that he was in the hospital on copious amounts of oxygen.  I thought I had killed my entire family.   He survived, thankfully. 

1 minute ago, The Frankish Reich said:

 

By mid-summer 2020, we started to understand the virus better. We knew by then that some things were really important (avoiding large numbers of people in enclosed spaces, improving air circulation), some not (avoiding large groups outdoors, wiping down surfaces like maniacs). But governments and businesses were conservative by nature. Nobody wanted to be the guy who opened the floodgates to the virus. 

By the nature of their inaction, the flood gates were opened, Frank. That's exactly my point.  People do not  gather in large groups without coming from somewhere--they drive in cars, take public transportation, use bathrooms, shop at the 7-11, buy takeout, sit down in the occasional restaurant, sleep indoors, cohabitate, travel through airports and bus terminals and so on.  If I know this, surely 'they' know this.  As a leader,  who the *&^% keeps their mouth shut in this scenario?  

 

1 minute ago, The Frankish Reich said:

 

We also knew vaccines were coming, and it was prudent to wait for vaccines that were showing great promise. The vaccines came, and by summer 2021 it was probably the time to eliminate most restrictions, but too many states and businesses (and countries) kept them in place. Again, conservatism, in the old small "c" sense of the word.

 

I don't see any conspiracies here, just well-meaning people scared of the virus, and then scared of being the one who stepped out front to repeal restrictions. Did some politicians/unions/interest groups see the virus as also offering an opportunity? Of course. They always do. That's to be expected. But no crazy conspiracies. 

Well-meaning people complied with the lockdowns orders, Frank.  They were the compliant.  This isn't a conspiracy, Frank, history reveals how this played out. I don't even fault protestors--they were generally young and like most, likely felt they safe.  Still...Mass gatherings during a virus with the potential to kill millions.  Silence from leadership.  The future VP spread fear about vaccinations, Frank.  

 

 

1 minute ago, The Frankish Reich said:

 

We did o.k. Really, better than o.k. Those early days were scary. We heard about what was happening in China, and saw what was happening in NYC, on Indian reservations, in norther Italy, etc. We largely prevented those kinds of horrific outbreaks in the USA and indeed in most of the developed world. We got too dug in and stuck with restrictive measures too long. But science did respond with remarkable speed with effective if imperfect vaccines. We should pat ourselves on the back and then do a full after-action report about what worked, what didn't, and what worked initially but was kept in place too long. 

Imagine how well we might have done without abdication of responsibility during those crucial summer months in 2020. 

[Joe Ferguson forever]

2 hours ago, leh-nerd skin-erd said:

I have, however, met and interacted with executives from Fortune 50 companies, a substantial number of wealthy and powerful people, a former governor of NY, and some high-ranking folks in NYS government.   On the other hand, I've met with people struggling to get by, those solidly in the middle class, people who were were subsequently the victim of violent crime, reformed criminals, and in at least one case, a guy caught up in a murder for hire scheme.  My experiences are diverse, and my opinions shaped by my experience. 

 

wow.  good for you.  Everyones opinions are shaped by their experiences.  That's why I seek and have lived very diverse experiences  Yours don't seem to have much relevance to virology, pandemic mitigation, epidemiology, infectious disease or medicine.

[leh-nerd skin-erd]

8 minutes ago, redtail hawk said:

wow.  good for you.  Everyones opinions are shaped by their experiences.  That's why I seek and have lived very diverse experiences  Yours don't seem to have much relevance to virology, pandemic mitigation, epidemiology, infectious disease or medicine.

Oh gosh no, I feel like I was pretty clear on that in my reply.   I would say my experiences tend toward thoughts centered on leadership and human behavior.   

 

The problem with Faucci wasn't his genius in virology, epidemiology, infectious disease or medicine--he was uniquely qualified to speak at length about the nature of the virus and it's potential.  

 

The problem was his inability to inspire or articulate key message points on a consistent basis, and thus creating confusion on the pandemic mitigation side of the ledger.  When the political factions are at war, and you're the person in the hot seat, its best to stand up and take charge.  He didn't, couldn't, or wouldn't.  Seems to me if the world is at risk, and he wasn't up to the challenge, surely there must have been another person to step into that role, understanding of course that would have neutered him in some respects.   

 

To be candid, it seems like the same problem you had with your suggestion and the CEO response.  If the plan was to save lives, it actually sounds sort of...sad... that it was scuttled due to concerns about the likability of the CEO, shrugged shoulders and "not how it works".   Maybe next time, skip the email and call the guy, Doc.  Better yet, a face to face meeting can pay dividends. 

[B-Man]

 

 

 

[Orlando Tim]

11 hours ago, redtail hawk said:

news flash:  I neither need nor want your help.  And if your mindset was prevalent in schools around me, I'd definitely go private.  12000 kids is no big deal tho...

Please stop pretending you worked in the medical field. A comment like this can not come from someone who understands how death rates work, but let me ask you howany of those kids would have been saved by vaccine?

[Joe Ferguson forever]

11 hours ago, Orlando Tim said:

Please stop pretending you worked in the medical field. A comment like this can not come from someone who understands how death rates work, but let me ask you howany of those kids would have been saved by vaccine?

yes, it's what MAGA's do:  Deny reality.

[B-Man]

 

 

A partial lung and colon surgery: the Pope's health issues
France 24 ^

 

Vatican City (AFP) – Pope Francis, who will undergo surgery for an abdominal hernia, admitted last year he needed to slow down faced with his age -- now 86 -- and increasing health issues.

 

(Excerpt) Read more at france24.com ...https://www.france24.com/en/live-news/20230607-a-partial-lung-and-colon-surgery-the-pope-s-health-issues

 

 

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[T&C]

The left is scared to death of Trump winning the election... desperation is the real mother of invention.

[B-Man]

3 hours ago, T&C said:

The left is scared to death of Trump winning the election... desperation is the real mother of invention.

 

 

[Joe Ferguson forever]

https://www.politico.com/news/2023/06/08/conservative-supreme-court-dems-house-vra-00101166

 

perhaps the most impactful news of the day

[B-Man]

 

 

                                        

 

 

 

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[T&C]

https://www.baynews9.com/fl/tampa/ap-top-news/2023/06/10/boris-johnsons-bombshell-exit-from-parliament-leaves-uk-politics-reeling

[Tiberius]

 

[T&C]

https://nypost.com/2023/06/10/unabomber-ted-kaczynski-found-dead-in-jail-cell/

[Roundybout]

This dude sucks so hard. He likes to LARP as an American and can’t even get basic info about the British army right. 

[B-Man]

 

 

 

 

                                              

 

 

 

 

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