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Offense line problems - bring back Aaron Kromer?


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16 minutes ago, Miyagi-Do Karate said:


“horrendous” at run blocking? I would argue mediocre— which is fully supported by the data. They were middle of the pack in YPC and rushing yards this season.

 

They need to be better. But this oline was exceptional in pass blocking and about average/slightly below average in run blocking. (I also think the stats on this are skewed because Winters was such a problem for a large part or the season and we were without our best run blocker in Feliciano for a lot of the season, and then missing Moss in the playoffs). 

 

They need to improve at run blocking. But I would disagree that they were “horrendous”— a description that would suggest massive changes, as opposed to some tweaks. 


Ok.....take away my post and “horrendous” statement.....what problem do you have with the OP?

 

Everything he said was 💯 true.

 

did you watch the AFCCG?  How did the OL play?  They were a problem.  On the biggest stage, they failed and were embarrassed.  
 

the bills also used “extra blockers” in pass protection more than 29 other teams this year.  The extra blockers helped the OL look “exceptional”.
 


 

I don’t care to go back and forth regarding our OLs run blocking this season.  You think they were average. I disagree.  No more needs to be said regarding that

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not a fan of two coaches at the same position.  

 

oddly (exception being KC game) we generally had good pass protection but horrid run blocking, and we lacked explosive RB's.  I'd say get better run blockers and more explosive RB's.  not totally opposed, but seems like too many coaches.  

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10 minutes ago, NewEra said:


Ok.....take away my post and “horrendous” statement.....what problem do you have with the OP?

 

Everything he said was 💯 true.

 

did you watch the AFCCG?  How did the OL play?  They were a problem.  On the biggest stage, they failed and were embarrassed.  
 

the bills also used “extra blockers” in pass protection more than 29 other teams this year.  The extra blockers helped the OL look “exceptional”.
 


 

I don’t care to go back and forth regarding our OLs run blocking this season.  You think they were average. I disagree.  No more needs to be said regarding that


I am totally cool agreeing to disagree, and please don’t take what I am saying as attacking you or the OP. Just good-natured debate! 😀
 

it just bothers me that many on here are taking the 1 data point of the KC game to extrapolate more systemic problems. That was 1 game, and an

absolutely important data point— but it should be considered along with all other data we have on this team to see what sorts of changes are needed at oline, coaching, or anything else. 
 

I also hate this notion of generally being so critical of the oline and oline coaching after what I considered to be a ridiculously successful offensive season. 
 

Again, they have to get better at run blocking. But I the “we need a new coach,” or “we need three new interior linemen, or “we need a 1st round RB” approach seems disproportionate to the nature of the “problem.”

 

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3 minutes ago, Miyagi-Do Karate said:


I am totally cool agreeing to disagree, and please don’t take what I am saying as attacking you or the OP. Just good-natured debate! 😀
 

it just bothers me that many on here are taking the 1 data point of the KC game to extrapolate more systemic problems. That was 1 game, and an

absolutely important data point— but it should be considered along with all other data we have on this team to see what sorts of changes are needed at oline, coaching, or anything else. 
 

I also hate this notion of generally being so critical of the oline and oline coaching after what I considered to be a ridiculously successful offensive season. 
 

Again, they have to get better at run blocking. But I the “we need a new coach,” or “we need three new interior linemen, or “we need a 1st round RB” approach seems disproportionate to the nature of the “problem.”

 

I hear ya.  Love the debate.  Much respect to you, always.

 

I’m of the belief that we have to continue to get better in all aspects.  Adding a quality football mind to help our run game should be an ongoing process that I hope we continue to look to do.  

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2 hours ago, Miyagi-Do Karate said:

Not meant to be critical of the OP, but it’s nuts that that narrative is the oline has “problems,” when the Bills had one of the most prolific offensive seasons in team history.
 

Yeah, the line can improve in some ways (including re run blocking)— but they overall had a tremendous season. 
 

 

The line was shielded a lot by Josh Allen's athleticism. If we're going to get past the Chiefs they need to be better. Admittedly the refs regulated the AFC championship game differently than in the SB particularly on the CBs but Josh was under more duress than he could have been reasonably expected to handle. He'll improve in this area but the OP has a point that the OL didn't perform at the required level when needed. 

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31 minutes ago, Miyagi-Do Karate said:

it just bothers me that many on here are taking the 1 data point of the KC game to extrapolate more systemic problems. That was 1 game, and an

absolutely important data point— but it should be considered along with all other data we have on this team to see what sorts of changes are needed at oline, coaching, or anything else. 

 

My opinion has little to do regarding KC game.  I was on my way to friend's house to watch game with him and a car pulled out of lane in front of me causing an accident. The driver went between complaining about her baby to dodging about letting me copy insurance card.  Needed to call my wife in for support / witness and after that I was in no mood to watch game at friend's and ruin his mood.

 

Bills in 2020 had trouble running in short yardage situations especially when it was not Josh running and teams were accounting for his running as season progressed. I think the OL coach has done a good job especially with turnover and OL man Quitin'.  Kromer was good at getting a poorly improving line to play well.  

 

Kromer was dumped with rest of Ryan's coaches and many of the replacement coaches were not very good so it is not a reflection on his ability. 

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3 hours ago, Miyagi-Do Karate said:

Not meant to be critical of the OP, but it’s nuts that that narrative is the oline has “problems,” when the Bills had one of the most prolific offensive seasons in team history.
 

Yeah, the line can improve in some ways (including re run blocking)— but they overall had a tremendous season. 
 

 

 

They were terrible at run blocking and Josh masked a lot of pass blocking issues with his movement skills.  Tremendous is a terrible way to describe their season.

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52 minutes ago, Not at the table Karlos said:

 

They were terrible at run blocking and Josh masked a lot of pass blocking issues with his movement skills.  Tremendous is a terrible way to describe their season.


PFF ranked our oline in the top 10. You can quibble with the oline re run blocking, but their great pass blocking was not masked due to JA mobility. Simply the eye test too shows me that JA had a significant amount of time this season, sitting in a clean pocket. 
 

https://www.pff.com/news/nfl-final-2020-offensive-line-rankings

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6 minutes ago, Miyagi-Do Karate said:


PFF ranked our oline in the top 10. You can quibble with the oline re run blocking, but their great pass blocking was not masked due to JA mobility. Simply the eye test too shows me that JA had a significant amount of time this season, sitting in a clean pocket. 
 

https://www.pff.com/news/nfl-final-2020-offensive-line-rankings

PFF... 🤦‍♂️ 😂😂😂😂😂

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I don't see the O-line coaching as being an issue. This was one of the best pass blocking O-lines in the league last season for an offense that excelled highly at passing the ball and was overall one of the best offenses in the league. That was despite a lot of lineup shuffling early in the season. Mongo was hurt, Spain went AWOL, Ford was shuffled around and then got hurt, and Mitch missed a few games. 

 

Now could a lot be adjusted to get the ground game going? Of course, I think scheme, consistency in lineup and play calling in certain situations could improve the running game. But there is no need to take apart the O-line coaching because the ground game on one of the best offenses in the league wasn't consistent despite fantastic pass blocking. 

2 hours ago, Not at the table Karlos said:

PFF... 🤦‍♂️ 😂😂😂😂😂

 

PFF has flaws but their O-line and D-line metrics are one of the most useful things they provide.

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On 2/24/2021 at 9:01 AM, NewEra said:

They had a tremendous season pass blocking.  They had a horrendous season run blocking. They need to improve or we’ll just be contender....rather than a champion.  
 

The OPs post is emphasizing our OLs problems with run blocking.... He’s 💯 correct imo. The OL can have a great year pass blocking (and then get trampled in the teams most important game in 25 years) and still have major problems in the run block dept

No kidding I’m watching the colts playoff game now and there’s a defender in the backfield every run blowing it up. 

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