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Mike Lee says the quiet part out loud


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Mike Lee said democracy is not the goal, liberty and freedom is the brass ring. Forget the verbatim but it’s bad. Authoritarian language, which we all know those on the right abhor. 
 

We have seen the Republican Party (of which I am a member) recently pretend that democracy is a core value while openly discouraging people from voting, but this is the first sitting senator to say power is more important than structure and law. 
 

Fortunately we will get back to some sense of normal on 11/4 but that does not mean that the people that sold out for power are off the hook. A guy like Mike Lee, willing to sacrifice  constitutional law and precedent for dear leader, will  be held to account. 

Edited by Thurmal34
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I'm a pretty far left of center Democrat, but I have never doubted that the POTUS loved his country, even Richard Nixon whom I once thought was one of the worse POTUS ever. Trump, however, doesn't.  There have always been self-serving politicians "looking out for #1" on the local, state, and federal level since the very beginning of the Republic.  Aaron Burr was perhaps the most famous one from the early national period.   I think, however, that very few of them have managed to get elected as POTUS.  Of the handful who have, Trump is by far the worst.  The US and its people are nothing more than a resource for Covid Donnie to exploit to stroke his ego.  He cares for nobody or nothing but himself and his personal gratification.   The well being of his staff and his followers mean nothing to him as his actions before and after his bout with covid-19 and his recent campaign rallies repeatedly demonstrate.   The well being of the American people as a whole means less than nothing.   He will sacrifice anyone and anything, including this country and its institutions, to get what he wants.

 

I live in a very Republican area of New York State, so I know lots of Republicans, most of whom are good people.   Fundamentally, local Democrats and Republicans here all want the same thing, we just see different paths to get there, and that's what politics in this country should be.  I think that's true in most of the country, red state or blue state.

 

Unfortunately, I think Lord Acton's famous quote comes into play as politicians climb up the political food chain: "Power tends to corrupt, and absolute power corrupts absolutely."   That is strikingly appropriate for Donald Trump's re-election campaign.  

 

Hopefully you're right about the election outcome.  It does look like Covid Donnie's attempts at voter suppression may very well backfire.  As of this morning, 22+ million early votes have been cast (15% of the total votes cast in 2016), and most states are reporting huge increases in absentee/mail-in ballots.  

 

 

Edited by SoTier
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The Republican Party is going to have a hard time reorienting itself after this fiasco. Pete Wilson led the Republicans in California off a cliff they never recovered from and Trump might have done the same here. 

 

What gets me is the arrogance of Republicans. The “do as we say not as we do” attitude from top to bottom. The very fact that so many people across this country enthusiastically supported this infant to run our country tells me the GOP will have a real hard time trying morph into something that can attract a wider spectrum of voters. 

 

The demographics of this country is changing fast, and I suspect Mike Lees comments grew out of that fact. We do need two functioning political parties, I believe. If the GOP completely craters the Dems will grow complacent and probably corrupt. 

 

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4 hours ago, Thurmal34 said:

Mike Lee said democracy is not the goal, liberty and freedom is the brass ring. Forget the verbatim but it’s bad. Authoritarian language, which we all know those on the right abhor. 
 

We have seen the Republican Party (of which I am a member) recently pretend that democracy is a core value while openly discouraging people from voting, but this is the first sitting senator to say power is more important than structure and law. 
 

Fortunately we will get back to some sense of normal on 11/4 but that does not mean that the people that sold out for power are off the hook. A guy like Mike Lee, willing to sacrifice  constitutional law and precedent for dear leader, will  be held to account. 

I'm calling Hoax on the bolded. 

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6 hours ago, Thurmal34 said:

Mike Lee said democracy is not the goal, liberty and freedom is the brass ring. Forget the verbatim but it’s bad. Authoritarian language, which we all know those on the right abhor. 
 

We have seen the Republican Party (of which I am a member) recently pretend that democracy is a core value while openly discouraging people from voting, but this is the first sitting senator to say power is more important than structure and law. 
 

Fortunately we will get back to some sense of normal on 11/4 but that does not mean that the people that sold out for power are off the hook. A guy like Mike Lee, willing to sacrifice  constitutional law and precedent for dear leader, will  be held to account. 

 

Where’s his quote?

What was the forum? The audience?

 

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18 hours ago, Thurmal34 said:

Mike Lee said democracy is not the goal, liberty and freedom is the brass ring. Forget the verbatim but it’s bad. Authoritarian language, which we all know those on the right abhor. 
 

We have seen the Republican Party (of which I am a member) recently pretend that democracy is a core value while openly discouraging people from voting, but this is the first sitting senator to say power is more important than structure and law. 
 

Fortunately we will get back to some sense of normal on 11/4 but that does not mean that the people that sold out for power are off the hook. A guy like Mike Lee, willing to sacrifice  constitutional law and precedent for dear leader, will  be held to account. 

Am I misreading your post or do you see liberty and freedom as negatives?  

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Mike Lee: comes from the libertarian wing of the Republican Party (although sadly compromised by sucking up to Trump).

Here he's using the old libertarian language, and I don't have a problem with it, namely:

Raw, unfettered democracy -- the tyranny of the majority -- is not a good thing. The Rule of Law is something quite different than Rule by 50.1%. It's why we have a constitution -- "ordered liberty" and all that -- protecting certain higher interests against the whims of a shifting pure democratic majority.

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Just now, The Frankish Reich said:

Mike Lee: comes from the libertarian wing of the Republican Party (although sadly compromised by sucking up to Trump).

Here he's using the old libertarian language, and I don't have a problem with it, namely:

Raw, unfettered democracy -- the tyranny of the majority -- is not a good thing. The Rule of Law is something quite different than Rule by 50.1%. It's why we have a constitution -- "ordered liberty" and all that -- protecting certain higher interests against the whims of a shifting pure democratic majority.

Elections have consequences, deal with it like an adult, not a spoiled child. 

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6 minutes ago, westside2 said:

Elections have consequences, deal with it like an adult, not a spoiled child. 

I'm not sure you understand my comment.

I am defending Mike Lee. In fact, I am largely agreeing with Mike Lee. Not because he is a Republican or a Trump supporter, but because he is expressing a deeper concern with the rule of law as opposed to pure unadulterated "democracy."

This comment shows you have no understanding whatsoever of the concepts. "Elections have consequences" is, in fact, precisely the opposite of what Mike Lee was saying -- "Trump won, deal with it" = "The Winners Can Do What They Want." That is anathema to constitutionalism, which is kind of Mike Lee's obsession.

Good rule: read it, look it up if you don't understand it (starting point: "Rule of Law"), then comment on it.

Edited by The Frankish Reich
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7 minutes ago, The Frankish Reich said:

Mike Lee: comes from the libertarian wing of the Republican Party (although sadly compromised by sucking up to Trump).

Here he's using the old libertarian language, and I don't have a problem with it, namely:

Raw, unfettered democracy -- the tyranny of the majority -- is not a good thing. The Rule of Law is something quite different than Rule by 50.1%. It's why we have a constitution -- "ordered liberty" and all that -- protecting certain higher interests against the whims of a shifting pure democratic majority.

That's how I see it as well, though I suppose certain context could change that. We were set up as a constitutional republic to protect the individual from the majority. 

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On 10/18/2020 at 8:49 AM, SoTier said:

As of this morning, 22+ million early votes have been cast (15% of the total votes cast in 2016), and most states are reporting huge increases in absentee/mail-in ballots.  

 

In my county, about four times as many absentee ballots were requested (almost 60,000), compared to the 2016 election (about 13,000). And they have a record number of people registered to voted also. 

 

https://www.syracuse.com/politics/cny/2020/10/2020-elections-how-many-have-voted-by-absentee-ballot-in-onondaga-county-oct-19.html

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On 10/18/2020 at 6:14 AM, Thurmal34 said:

Mike Lee said democracy is not the goal, liberty and freedom is the brass ring. Forget the verbatim but it’s bad. Authoritarian language, which we all know those on the right abhor. 
 

We have seen the Republican Party (of which I am a member) recently pretend that democracy is a core value while openly discouraging people from voting, but this is the first sitting senator to say power is more important than structure and law. 
 

Fortunately we will get back to some sense of normal on 11/4 but that does not mean that the people that sold out for power are off the hook. A guy like Mike Lee, willing to sacrifice  constitutional law and precedent for dear leader, will  be held to account. 


 

ummm.....bro?  We don’t live in a democracy and the foundation for our constitutional republic is liberty and freedom. So you might want to rethink this stance. 
 

 

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