There should be a national dialogue in getting back to work

[B-Man]

6 minutes ago, dubs said:

 

Exactly.  People are so frightened into paralysis that there is actually a group of citizens advocating for this state of lockdown until there is a vaccine.  It's mind blowing.  

 

 

 

Quick reminder:

 

(and, yes, I am more than aware that they spread differently.............the point is you can't stop your life waiting for a vaccine)

 

KEY POINTS

• Researchers have been working on an HIV vaccine since the 1980s, but progress towards an effective vaccine has been much slower than anticipated.
• Finding at least a partially effective vaccine remains of critical importance for the HIV response.
• The biggest reduction in new infections would be achieved by a combination of PrEP, universal antiretroviral treatment for people already living with HIV, and a vaccine.1
• An HIV vaccine is a more realistic prospect today than a decade ago and an optimistic forecast of HIV vaccine availability is that one might be available by 2030.

[daz28]

Here's the thing.  The Constitution is certainly predicated on common sense.  It cannot possibly be a document of absolutes, because NOTHING can be written to cover every single possible outcome.  To believe that's possible would be to say that it could have only been written by God himself(who's made a few mistakes of his own).  When it comes time for the greater good of the people to override it during and emergency, the Constitution shouldn't have to be amended.  No one should have had to tell dumbasses not to yell fire causing people to trample others.  If we know there's a hydrogen bomb somewhere on this block on 5th avenue, we shouldn't have to have any high school dropout Constitutional scholars at their front door saying, "where's your warrant".  I get that you can't trust the government, and I certainly don't, but that's not time to be playing that card.  We gotta get through this thing sensibly, and preferably as a united country. No one really knows what this enemy is, but rest assured it is real.  The other enemy that existed before this was a divided nation, and it's a shame we remain one throughout this.  

[Boatdrinks]

11 minutes ago, dubs said:

 

Exactly.  People are so frightened into paralysis that there is actually a group of citizens advocating for this state of lockdown until there is a vaccine.  It's mind blowing.  

 

Yeah, some actually are. I saw perhaps the dumbest thing I’ve seen yet in this CoronaVirus thing; some people in Florida protesting the lifting of the lockdown ! What is that ? Stunning that anyone would protest their own freedom to go out or stay in. Pretty sure the government won’t issue you a summons if you decide to hunker down. 

[Deranged Rhino]

11 minutes ago, daz28 said:

Here's the thing.  The Constitution is certainly predicated on common sense.  It cannot possibly be a document of absolutes, because NOTHING can be written to cover every single possible outcome.  To believe that's possible would be to say that it could have only been written by God himself(who's made a few mistakes of his own).  When it comes time for the greater good of the people to override it during and emergency, the Constitution shouldn't have to be amended.  No one should have had to tell dumbasses not to yell fire causing people to trample others.  If we know there's a hydrogen bomb somewhere on this block on 5th avenue, we shouldn't have to have any high school dropout Constitutional scholars at their front door saying, "where's your warrant".  I get that you can't trust the government, and I certainly don't, but that's not time to be playing that card.  We gotta get through this thing sensibly, and preferably as a united country. No one really knows what this enemy is, but rest assured it is real.  The other enemy that existed before this was a divided nation, and it's a shame we remain one throughout this.  

 

The constitution is predicated on Natural Law. As in, people are born with innate rights which exist outside of the state itself. The bolded section is anathema to everything the constitution stands for, not to mention this country. On one hand you're agreeing that government can't be trusted, but on the other you're saying they can decide when the "public good" overrides your innate rights. 

 

That's not liberalism. That's not freedom. 

 

That's supporting tyranny by any other name.

[Taraka]

[daz28]

18 minutes ago, Deranged Rhino said:

 

The constitution is predicated on Natural Law. As in, people are born with innate rights which exist outside of the state itself. The bolded section is anathema to everything the constitution stands for, not to mention this country. On one hand you're agreeing that government can't be trusted, but on the other you're saying they can decide when the "public good" overrides your innate rights. 

 

That's not liberalism. That's not freedom. 

 

That's supporting tyranny by any other name.

No, I said we shouldn't have to be told when it's ok to break from it, and we should be holding them accountable not to take advantage of that fact

[Deranged Rhino]

Just now, daz28 said:

No, I said we shouldn't have to be told when it's ok to break from it, and we should be holding them accountable not to take advantage of that fact

 

Who decides what's in the interest of the "greater good" in your mind? And why should they, government or otherwise, be able to decide to take away rights which were given to me by nature/God? 

[plenzmd1]

3 minutes ago, ~Kostabi~ said:

Man, what a crock of poop this is. Name me one economy that weathers a “ full stop”. Never happened before in this country without a depression attached. 
 

modest challenges... are you awake and alive? And you think this guy “ nailed it”! 
 

And where are the examples of not being able to provide healthcare by healthcare organizations? Based on nothing but fear, our healthcare organizations have been forbidden from delivering health care, but it’s not for lack of ability. 
 

I am in sales, do you need a new car or bridge today? 

[daz28]

Just now, Deranged Rhino said:

 

Who decides what's in the interest of the "greater good" in your mind? And why should they, government or otherwise, be able to decide to take away rights which were given to me by nature/God? 

You sure like to twist things.  I said people shouldn't have to be told what's the greater good, I gave you examples.  You'd think people might be smart enough to see it when it's right in front of them, but we've become the nation of me/greed.  I also said, like you said, that it's our job to not allow them to.  Nature/God is subjective.  I know you probably don't think it is, but all people have different perspective on what their God is and what their nature is.  

[Deranged Rhino]

2 minutes ago, daz28 said:

You sure like to twist things. 

 

I'm not twisting, I'm clarifying because your statement was vague. You know who twists things? The government you're admitting to be untrustworthy while also wishing to empower them with the ability to strip away your rights whenever they deem it's in the interests of the public good.

 

2 minutes ago, daz28 said:

 I said people shouldn't have to be told what's the greater good, I gave you examples. 

 

The "greater good" has no bearing on rights that I was born with. That's the point you're missing.

 

3 minutes ago, daz28 said:

 Nature/God is subjective.  I know you probably don't think it is, but all people have different perspective on what their God is and what their nature is.  

 

You need to do much more learning on who the founders where, what they believed, and why they chose the words they did. The beauty of the document is that it sanctifies these rights regardless of your take on nature/god/or the divine. You are born with rights that did not come from government, but are your birthright. 

[Chef Jim]

18 minutes ago, ~Kostabi~ said:

There is so much wrong with this I don’t know where to start so I won’t. I’ll just ??‍♂️

11 minutes ago, plenzmd1 said:

Man, what a crock of poop this is. Name me one economy that weathers a “ full stop”. Never happened before in this country without a depression attached. 
 

modest challenges... are you awake and alive? And you think this guy “ nailed it”! 
 

And where are the examples of not being able to provide healthcare by healthcare organizations? Based on nothing but fear, our healthcare organizations have been forbidden from delivering health care, but it’s not for lack of ability. 
 

I am in sales, do you need a new car or bridge today? 

I’ll take a bridge. One that will take me from Here to Away From Here please. 

[Boatdrinks]

16 minutes ago, ~Kostabi~ said:

Paul Field and others apparently have no idea of how America works, why it came to be, and not even a rudimentary understanding of the economy or the healthcare system. The US has plenty of healthcare capacity for those who contract Coronavirus. So much that it actually sat idle awaiting patients that never arrived; all due to government decree. 

[Chef Jim]

1 minute ago, Boatdrinks said:

Paul Field and others apparently have no idea of how America works, why it came to be, and not even a rudimentary understanding of the economy or the healthcare system. The US has plenty of healthcare capacity for those who contract Coronavirus. So much that it actually sat idle awaiting patients that never arrived; all due to government decree. 

And why a very good friend of mine who works in ER can’t get a job because we have....you got it. Too much healthcare to give. Basic supply and demand. 

[daz28]

4 minutes ago, Deranged Rhino said:

 

I'm not twisting, I'm clarifying because your statement was vague. You know who twists things? The government you're admitting to be untrustworthy while also wishing to empower them with the ability to strip away your rights whenever they deem it's in the interests of the public good.

 

 

The "greater good" has no bearing on rights that I was born with. That's the point you're missing.

 

 

You need to do much more learning on who the founders where, what they believed, and why they chose the words they did. The beauty of the document is that it sanctifies these rights regardless of your take on nature/god/or the divine. You are born with rights that did not come from government, but are your birthright. 

I've told you over and over that I'm furious about all our lost rights, but you say I'm not.  I said we should be smart enough to know when to give them up, and strong enough to hold them accountable.  probably the 5th time I've said it, but you gotta be you.  That's twisting.

 

Sometimes the greater good IS actually protecting your rights.  Par example, you're a slave in 1850.  Hard to miss that point

 

The founders are old dead people who would think we are aliens.  They were wordsmiths no doubt, but they, like our politicians today, wrote everything in haste.  The Constitution is not a perfect transcript.  If you want to discuss John Locke we can do that, but he's also still using windows 95.

 

 

 

 

[Deranged Rhino]

2 minutes ago, daz28 said:

I've told you over and over that I'm furious about all our lost rights, but you say I'm not.  I said we should be smart enough to know when to give them up,

 

You realize this is crazy talk, right? You contradict yourself within two sentences. 

 

You're mad about losing rights while arguing we should give them up willingly. You're SUPER confused as to what's happening. 

[Chef Jim]

8 minutes ago, daz28 said:

I've told you over and over that I'm furious about all our lost rights, but you say I'm not.  I said we should be smart enough to know when to give them up, and strong enough to hold them accountable.  probably the 5th time I've said it, but you gotta be you.  That's twisting.

 

Sometimes the greater good IS actually protecting your rights.  Par example, you're a slave in 1850.  Hard to miss that point

 

The founders are old dead people who would think we are aliens.  They were wordsmiths no doubt, but they, like our politicians today, wrote everything in haste.  The Constitution is not a perfect transcript.  If you want to discuss John Locke we can do that, but he's also still using windows 95.

 

 

 

 

Describe a situation when we are smart enough to give them up?

[daz28]

Just now, Chef Jim said:

Describe a situation when we are smart enough to give them up?

I already did, but I'll repost, and it wouldn't take a genius to come up with 20 more just like it pretty quick:

 

"If we know there's a hydrogen bomb somewhere on this block on 5th avenue, we shouldn't have to have any high school dropout Constitutional scholars at their front door saying, "where's your warrant"

[Chef Jim]

3 minutes ago, daz28 said:

I already did, but I'll repost, and it wouldn't take a genius to come up with 20 more just like it pretty quick:

 

"If we know there's a hydrogen bomb somewhere on this block on 5th avenue, we shouldn't have to have any high school dropout Constitutional scholars at their front door saying, "where's your warrant"

Yes we should. 
 

I’ll wait for your other 19 doozies. 

[Deranged Rhino]

5 minutes ago, daz28 said:

I already did, but I'll repost, and it wouldn't take a genius to come up with 20 more just like it pretty quick:

 

"If we know there's a hydrogen bomb somewhere on this block on 5th avenue, we shouldn't have to have any high school dropout Constitutional scholars at their front door saying, "where's your warrant"

 

If you KNOW there's a bomb, getting a warrant should be easy. You should be able to prove it conclusively if you "know", right? 

 

Again, you're arguing for the subversion of the republic. 

[daz28]

1 minute ago, Deranged Rhino said:

 

If you KNOW there's a bomb, getting a warrant should be easy. You should be able to prove it conclusively if you "know", right? 

 

Again, you're arguing for the subversion of the republic. 

No I'm arguing for common sense.  get out of the way, and let me defuse the bomb or a lot of us will die.  IOW don't be a dumass just to be a dumass

[Deranged Rhino]

Just now, daz28 said:

No I'm arguing for common sense.  get out of the way, and let me defuse the bomb or a lot of us will die.  IOW don't be a dumass just to be a dumass

 

No, you're arguing for the subversion of the rule of law and the republic itself. You're just too dim to see it.

[Chef Jim]

3 minutes ago, Deranged Rhino said:

 

If you KNOW there's a bomb, getting a warrant should be easy. You should be able to prove it conclusively if you "know", right? 

 

Again, you're arguing for the subversion of the republic. 

If they can search without a warrant using any reason that reason will be used over and over. Once we wise up to THAT reason they’ll come up with another. 

2 minutes ago, daz28 said:

No I'm arguing for common sense.  get out of the way, and let me defuse the bomb or a lot of us will die.  IOW don't be a dumass just to be a dumass

Seriously?  You’ve been watching way too many movies. 

[daz28]

Just now, Chef Jim said:

If they can search without a warrant using any reason that reason will be used over and over. Once we wise up to THAT reason they’ll come up with another. 

As has been stated over and over, it's not the breach of rights for a proper reason that kills us, it's the fact that we shirk our responsibility to hold them accountable.  If necessary we are supposed to usurp them.

[Chef Jim]

5 minutes ago, daz28 said:

As has been stated over and over, it's not the breach of rights for a proper reason that kills us, it's the fact that we shirk our responsibility to hold them accountable.  If necessary we are supposed to usurp them.

In my mind there is no proper reason. It’s a slippery slope that the lazy allow to happen.  

[Deranged Rhino]

6 minutes ago, daz28 said:

As has been stated over and over, it's not the breach of rights for a proper reason that kills us, it's the fact that we shirk our responsibility to hold them accountable.  If necessary we are supposed to usurp them.

 

But here's why you're dumb. 

 

Your version of "holding them accountable" is to agree the government can suspend your rights in the name of the common good. So you want to hold the government accountable while admitting they can strip way your fundamental rights if they deem it necessary for the common good. 

 

You're so twisted and broken you don't even understand how ***** dumb you sound. 

[Reality Check]

5 minutes ago, daz28 said:

As has been stated over and over, it's not the breach of rights for a proper reason that kills us, it's the fact that we shirk our responsibility to hold them accountable.  If necessary we are supposed to usurp them.

Well meaning patriots aren't going to see it your way on this just yet. In my opinion, you are a year ahead of your time at minimum. We are all dug in like ticks in our respective positions because those positions function as lifeboats in a time when everything that was will never be the same again.

[daz28]

1 minute ago, Reality Check said:

Well meaning patriots aren't going to see it your way on this just yet. In my opinion, you are a year ahead of your time at minimum. We are all dug in like ticks in our respective positions because those positions function as lifeboats in a time when everything that was will never be the same again.

I decided I didn't need a lifeboat after GW Bush was re-elected.  

[Reality Check]

57 minutes ago, ~Kostabi~ said:

This is another idea that is way ahead of its time. It will take more than a few years for people to look back on what really happened with far better resolution than we have available now. Just my opinion of course.

[daz28]

2 minutes ago, Deranged Rhino said:

 

But here's why you're dumb. 

 

Your version of "holding them accountable" is to agree the government can suspend your rights in the name of the common good. So you want to hold the government accountable while admitting they can strip way your fundamental rights if they deem it necessary for the common good. 

 

You're so twisted and broken you don't even understand how ***** dumb you sound. 

Dear Mr Constitutionalist.  If your government ever gets so broken, you fix it.  it's your constitutional duty.  Do you think Thomas Jefferson was thinking when DR gets Hillary and Obama in 2020 we will turn this thing around?

 

[Reality Check]

2 minutes ago, daz28 said:

I decided I didn't need a lifeboat after GW Bush was re-elected.  

That is good because you will mentally adapt much better and faster than most after we all go through this global transition.

[daz28]

13 minutes ago, Chef Jim said:

 

Seriously?  You’ve been watching way too many movies. 

No I've been watching dummies storm the capital with no masks while they still haven't pulled the last 10 things the government shoved up their *** out yet

[Deranged Rhino]

1 minute ago, daz28 said:

Dear Mr Constitutionalist.  If your government ever gets so broken, you fix it.  it's your constitutional duty.  Do you think Thomas Jefferson was thinking when DR gets Hillary and Obama in 2020 we will turn this thing around?

 

 

How do you fix the government by giving it a power it does not have at present -- to strip away your rights for the greater good? 

 

See? You're too dumb to even realize you're arguing against your own point. 

Just now, daz28 said:

No I've been watching dummies storm the capital with no masks while they still haven't pulled the last 10 things the government shoved up their *** out yet

 

So, the government won years ago and you've given up. Good for you. 

 

It's brave to admit you're a ***** coward in public. One of life's ironies. 

[daz28]

1 minute ago, Reality Check said:

That is good because you will mentally adapt much better and faster than most after we all go through this global transition.

I've already adapted, because there's no way out.  Well two ways, but one doesn't have enough brains-voting; and 2nd doesn't have enough balls-revolution

9 minutes ago, Chef Jim said:

In my mind there is no proper reason. It’s a slippery slope that the lazy allow to happen.  

We're stupid and lazy for the 2 reasons I stated last post

3 minutes ago, Deranged Rhino said:

 

How do you fix the government by giving it a power it does not have at present -- to strip away your rights for the greater good? 

 

See? You're too dumb to even realize you're arguing against your own point. 

 

So, the government won years ago and you've given up. Good for you. 

 

It's brave to admit you're a ***** coward in public. One of life's ironies. 

This is all drivel counter to every word I've said

[Reality Check]

Just now, daz28 said:

I've already adapted, because there's no way out.  Well two ways, but one doesn't have enough brains-voting; and 2nd doesn't have enough balls-revolution

To be fair, what comes next hasn't happened yet. I can assure you, adaptation has not happened yet. You will do well I think. The problem with revolution today is that it can only come from within the military ranks for reasons that should be obvious to all. When it is all said and done, history will know who the real revolutionaries were.

[Chef Jim]

7 minutes ago, daz28 said:

No I've been watching dummies storm the capital with no masks while they still haven't pulled the last 10 things the government shoved up their *** out yet

We’re talking rights taken away not government shoving up our asses. 

[daz28]

3 minutes ago, Reality Check said:

To be fair, what comes next hasn't happened yet. I can assure you, adaptation has not happened yet. You will do well I think. The problem with revolution today is that it can only come from within the military ranks for reasons that should be obvious to all. When it is all said and done, history will know who the real revolutionaries were.

I can assure you he doesn't look anything like he thinks he does.  If you're fighting for one side, you're not the patriot right now.

[Deranged Rhino]

1 minute ago, Chef Jim said:

We’re talking rights taken away not government shoving up our asses. 

 

He doesn't even know what he's arguing anymore. 

 

He's real dim.

Just now, daz28 said:

I can assure you he doesn't look anything like he thinks he does.  If you're fighting for one side, you're not the patriot right now.

 

Wrong. 

 

Being on the side of the people makes you a patriot. But again, you haven't the foggiest idea what's actually happening, or how to make a coherent argument. But keep going, you're winning  

[daz28]

1 minute ago, Chef Jim said:

We’re talking rights taken away not government shoving up our asses. 

You're talking about rights that MIGHT be taken away temporarily, while I'm still mad about the last 5 they took, and the last 100 scandals they've gotten away with.  

[Reality Check]

1 minute ago, daz28 said:

I can assure you he doesn't look anything like he thinks he does.  If you're fighting for one side, you're not the patriot right now.

Now you lost me.

[daz28]

5 minutes ago, Reality Check said:

Now you lost me.

The current flag waver patriot is a conservative.  He thinks the Democrat is the enemy.  He storms the Democrat capital with no mask demanding he can go back to Billy Bob's and get shitfaced with Bobby Lee, because he has forgotten all the things he's already ACTUALLY lost, only to worry about things he isn't going to lose.  Problem is, If a neutron bomb landed tomorrow, and killed all Democrats, he'd still have the same crap government he had when the Democrats were still alive.  He'd still be living in a 1976 trailer, and hating all the Christian things he's supposed to love.  'Murica

 

Hope that clears it up

Edited May 13, 2020 by daz28