There should be a national dialogue in getting back to work

[Tiberius]

Is Trump going to lead the way and hold rallies??

[RochesterRob]

5 minutes ago, B-Man said:

 

IRISH DEMOCRACY:

 

 

 

 

 

UPDATE: Americans stopped the economy, not politicians. And we will restart it.

 

In the case of the lockdowns, it is important to realize that people were out in front of closing down the economy. The evidence is pretty clear that we began withdrawing well before governments at all levels turned practice into legal decrees. Schools, restaurants, gyms, and houses of worship began to close or move to virtual before they were mandated to do so. Cell phone data indicate that people began to practice social distancing and forms of quarantine before governments acted.

 

We stopped the economy, not the politicians. And we will restart it.

 

That restart will happen when people believe that engaging in various forms of economic activity is sufficiently safe. Those beliefs will be a combination of their assessment of the virus and their confidence in what firms are doing to make going to stores, restaurants, and the like hospitable and safe.

 

 

Looks like it’s happening.

 

 

 

 

 

 

  I hate to be a Negative Ned but at least in NY if Cuomo, De Blasio, and other ranking Dems believe that the votes are behind them will start pulling licenses, fining non-compliant entities, etc. for offenders to their edicts.  Might be different in Michigan as there are probably enough voters including those that would cross party lines to send Whitmer and any loyal followers packing. 

[shoshin]

21 minutes ago, Buffalo_Gal said:

If masks worked the wonder you are advocating, this never would have spread in China - where the vast majority has been wearing masks daily for nearly 20 years.
 

 

Wearing masks does not stop spread, it slows it. And China has slowed its spread and they have 1.5B people living on top of each other in ways we cannot imagine. Korea, Hong Kong, and Japan have also slowed their spread.

 

For more believable data in a mask-wearing country, look to Japan and in particular Tokyo, which has 38 million people and very few cases. Clearly societal decisions can make a big difference.

 

We are not particularly hygienic and don't wear masks in public. Masks help. But they are hot and itchy and annoying.

[RochesterRob]

1 minute ago, shoshin said:

 

Wearing masks does not stop spread, it slows it. And China has slowed its spread and they have 1.5B people living on top of each other in ways we cannot imagine. Korea, Hong Kong, and Japan have also slowed their spread.

 

For more believable data in a mask-wearing country, look to Japan and in particular Tokyo, which has 38 million people and very few cases. Clearly societal decisions can make a big difference.

 

We are not particularly hygienic and don't wear masks in public. Masks help. But they are hot and itchy and annoying.

  Japanese borders with respect to China are far from being very open and have been that way for quite a long time.

10 minutes ago, Tiberius said:

Is Trump going to lead the way and hold rallies??

  So what time is your commies of WNY rally just so I can avoid the area?

[Buffalo_Gal]

1 minute ago, shoshin said:

 

Wearing masks does not stop spread, it slows it. And China has slowed its spread and they have 1.5B people living on top of each other in ways we cannot imagine. Korea, Hong Kong, and Japan have also slowed their spread.

 

For more believable data in a mask-wearing country, look to Japan and in particular Tokyo, which has 38 million people and very few cases. Clearly societal decisions can make a big difference.

 

We are not particularly hygienic and don't wear masks in public. Masks help. But they are hot and itchy and annoying.

You are annoying, but I still deal with you. ?

China's numbers will never be known.  I see we are now moving from masks stopping the spread to masks slowing the spread ... is this like 2 weeks at home to stop the spread? Two months later, we are getting masks will slow it. What next? RID chips to tell where you have been so you can be notified if someone surrounding you gets it? Oh wait! That is what is now being pushed.

Compliance buddy. That is all this is. You must obey all authority, no matter what.

 

[Chef Jim]

54 minutes ago, oldmanfan said:

I would agree wit h a liability waiver  And if I were a company I'd go with the recommended precautions.

Of course the waiver protects both the employee and the employer. 

[Tiberius]

8 minutes ago, RochesterRob said:

  Japanese borders with respect to China are far from being very open and have been that way for quite a long time.

  So what time is your commies of WNY rally just so I can avoid the area?

Oh, do you leave the trailer park often? 

[Chef Jim]

20 minutes ago, Tiberius said:

Is Trump going to lead the way and hold rallies??

Lead the way?  What do you mean?  

[RochesterRob]

Just now, Tiberius said:

Oh, do you leave the trailer park often? 

  I have to go there to do meals on wheels (voluntarily) for guys like you.  

[GG]

43 minutes ago, Reality Check said:

...whatever dude. Are these the same studies that said we would be under water soon due to 'climate change". In an unsterile environment, you are simply wearing germ collectors on your face.

 

In this one he’s right.  It’s silly to use the results of this specific study to argue against wearing masks in recommended settings during the pandemic.

 

The study was done specifically to identify the effectiveness of improvised PPE for healthcare workers in highly contagious environments with high concentrations of infectious disease in the airstream.   In that case, the cloth masks weren’t effective, but neither were low grade medical masks.

 

Of course that means very little to the suggestion that masks should be worn when ordinary people are going to be in indoor spaces with other people around them at a reasonable proximity.  The guidance assumes that there’s ample distance between people and the space is more open than a hospital room or a tent.

 

If people took the same amount of time to learn about proper techniques to wear masks or even ways to improve on cloth masks (hint, add a cheap filter in the lining), this wouldn’t be an issue.

 

I don’t need clinical studies to know that wearing masks is effective.  Hundreds of millions of Asians have blocked the flow of this virus by wearing masks, because it’s in their culture.  I’ll take that evidence over any crackpot theory that the suggestion to wear masks is part of some conspiracy for mind control.

 

The only reason that CDC didn’t advise wearing masks early on is they knew that Americans who aren’t used to wearing masks, would botch the recommendations and possibly make things worse.  In retrospect it was the wrong advice, because the spread grew in the worst place possible and now people think there’s an anterior motive for mask wearing guidance since CDC didn’t come out with those suggestions in the first place.

[Reality Check]

3 minutes ago, GG said:

 

In this one he’s right.  It’s silly to use the results of this specific study to argue against wearing masks in recommended settings during the pandemic.

 

The study was done specifically to identify the effectiveness of improvised PPE for healthcare workers in highly contagious environments with high concentrations of infectious disease in the airstream.   In that case, the cloth masks weren’t effective, but neither were low grade medical masks.

 

Of course that means very little to the suggestion that masks should be worn when ordinary people are going to be in indoor spaces with other people around them at a reasonable proximity.  The guidance assumes that there’s ample distance between people and the space is more open than a hospital room or a tent.

 

If people took the same amount of time to learn about proper techniques to wear masks or even ways to improve on cloth masks (hint, add a cheap filter in the lining), this wouldn’t be an issue.

 

I don’t need clinical studies to know that wearing masks is effective.  Hundreds of millions of Asians have blocked the flow of this virus by wearing masks, because it’s in their culture.  I’ll take that evidence over any crackpot theory that the suggestion to wear masks is part of some conspiracy for mind control.

 

The only reason that CDC didn’t advise wearing masks early on is they knew that Americans who aren’t used to wearing masks, would botch the recommendations and possibly make things worse.  In retrospect it was the wrong advice, because the spread grew in the worst place possible and now people think there’s an anterior motive for mask wearing guidance since CDC didn’t come out with those suggestions in the first place.

There is no pandemic. You wear whatever you like, and I will do the same.

[Tiberius]

7 minutes ago, RochesterRob said:

  I have to go there to do meals on wheels (voluntarily) for guys like you.  

Ahh, good for you! That really is a great thing to do. ✌️

[GG]

2 minutes ago, Reality Check said:

There is no pandemic. You wear whatever you like, and I will do the same.

 

Of course not.  The last two months are totally normal seasonality for the flu and deaths.

[Chef Jim]

3 minutes ago, Reality Check said:

There is no pandemic. 

 

What???

[OldTimeAFLGuy]

2 minutes ago, GG said:

 

Of course not.  The last two months are totally normal seasonality for the flu and deaths.

 

 

...hindsight is a beautiful thing especially when evaluating something like never before except for perhaps 1917......hopefully (yet doubtful) we can get to a reliable database that allows accurate assessment of the Covid-19 occurrence......with its obvious unknown status, measures were taken whether right, wrong, indifferent, woefully inept or over the top.....NOT much choice when sprung into "Crisis Management Mode" IMO.....FWIW, biggest problem I see is if we initially overreacted only to find out that Covid-19 is an annual occurrence......leaves us WIDE open to the "cry wolf syndrome".....stay tuned............

[GG]

5 minutes ago, OldTimeAFLGuy said:

 

 

...hindsight is a beautiful thing especially when evaluating something like never before except for perhaps 1917......hopefully (yet doubtful) we can get to a reliable database that allows accurate assessment of the Covid-19 occurrence......with its obvious unknown status, measures were taken whether right, wrong, indifferent, woefully inept or over the top.....NOT much choice when sprung into "Crisis Management Mode" IMO.....FWIW, biggest problem I see is if we initially overreacted only to find out that Covid-19 is an annual occurrence......leaves us WIDE open to the "cry wolf syndrome".....stay tuned............

 

No arguments there.   Always easier to pontificate from hindsight.

 

But that’s beside the point of whether masks are effective in slowing the spread, or not.

[Reality Check]

This virus was developed and studied in more than a few laboratories. This is not a "mystery" virus by any stretch of the imagination. Everyone has the right to believe what they want. This whole business is an absolute fraud to hold billions of people hostage. Trillions are being created as a result. If you think that is a coincidence, then you are naive. Just my opinion.

[oldmanfan]

9 minutes ago, OldTimeAFLGuy said:

 

 

...hindsight is a beautiful thing especially when evaluating something like never before except for perhaps 1917......hopefully (yet doubtful) we can get to a reliable database that allows accurate assessment of the Covid-19 occurrence......with its obvious unknown status, measures were taken whether right, wrong, indifferent, woefully inept or over the top.....NOT much choice when sprung into "Crisis Management Mode" IMO.....FWIW, biggest problem I see is if we initially overreacted only to find out that Covid-19 is an annual occurrence......leaves us WIDE open to the "cry wolf syndrome".....stay tuned............

Hey my fellow old man, hope all is well with you.  To your point, when you have a new virus of apparent high infectivity and with no vaccine, you have to err on the side of caution.

[GG]

Who exactly is making trillions?  

 

This is a classic lose lose scenario where there won't be any winners.  

[B-Man]

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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