Covid-19 discussion and humor thread [Was: CDC says don't touch your face to avoid Covid19...Vets to the rescue!

[Augie]

18 minutes ago, BillsFan4 said:

 

 

I’ll take a little comfort in that being about a month old, and I’ll pray like hell that my 92 year old mother doesn’t see this, or anything like it! I, along with my two sisters, got a long, rambling paranoid text from her last night. She’s in her small retirement apartment and her tiny world has gotten even smaller. There may have been a second glass of wine involved, but it was very disturbing how this is affecting her (and as a result us), and how there is nothing we can safely do to improve her situation. 

 

A couple of her friends have gone to live with family, but short of an outbreak (or even a single case) we feel she is better there with the in-unit precautions for elderly and general level of care. We don’t go to concerts or happy hours, but we do the things we need to do to get by (including shopping for her).  It’s a tricky little balancing act, and we all just do our best. Just like the rest of life......

[BillsFan4]

 

?

[BillsFan4]

 

 

 

This is a good twitter thread. Worth reading IMO.

[BillsFan4]

 

 

 

 

9 hours ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

Troubling new learning about covid-19: healthy-feeling or barely ill young patients showing up in hospital with serious strokes

https://www.washingtonpost.com/health/2020/04/24/strokes-coronavirus-young-patients/

It isn’t just the number of patients that was unusual. The first wave of the pandemic has hit the elderly and those with heart disease, diabetes, obesity or other preexisting conditions disproportionately. The covid-19 patients treated for stroke at Mount Sinai were younger and mostly without risk factors.

On average, the covid-19 stroke patients were 15 years younger than stroke patients without the virus.

“These are people among the least likely statistically to have a stroke,” Mocco said.

(...)

In a letter to be published in the New England Journal of Medicine next week, the Mount Sinai team details five case studies of young patients who had strokes at home from March 23 to April 7. They make for difficult reading: The victims’ ages are 33, 37, 39, 44 and 49, and they were all home when they began to experience sudden symptoms, including slurred speech, confusion, drooping on one side of the face and a dead feeling in one arm.

One died, two are still hospitalized, one was released to rehabilitation, and one was released home to the care of his brother. Only one of the five, a 33-year-old woman, is able to speak.

Oxley, the interventional neurologist, said one striking aspect of the cases is how long many waited before seeking emergency care.

The 33-year-old woman was previously healthy but had a cough and headache for about a week. Over the course of 28 hours, she noticed her speech was slurred and that she was going numb and weak on her left side but, the researchers wrote, “delayed seeking emergency care due to fear of the covid-19 outbreak.” (she was already infected)

(...)

Oxley said the most important thing for people to understand is that large strokes are very treatable. Doctors are often able to reopen blocked blood vessels through techniques such as pulling out clots or inserting stents. But it has to be done quickly, ideally within six hours, but no longer than 24 hours: “The message we are trying to get out is if you have symptoms of stroke, you need to call the ambulance urgently. ”

PSA: to screen yourself or a loved one for stroke, Use the FAST test to check for the most common symptoms of a stroke in yourself or someone else.

Face: Smile and see if one side of the face droops.

Arms: Raise both arms. Does one arm drop down?

Speech: Say a short phrase and check for slurred or strange speech.

Time: If the answer to any of these is yes, call 911 right away and write down the time when symptoms started.

 

(from the facts thread)

 

man, this virus is a real monster.  Scary.

[GaryPinC]

19 hours ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

I think Sweden is a national, natural "Social Distancing" experiment and Hispanic/Mediterranean countries are um, NOT.  But that's just my opinion.

 

This is just all so preventable.  It did not have to be this way.

 

Current "hot spots" map (places where cases doubling most rapidly).  Click to embiggen. 

 

Some may represent local jumps in testing (eg 412 cases associated with meat packing plant in St Joseph, MO)

Some may represent outbreaks ready to flare.  Guess we're going to "do the experiment".

 

We sure are.  That's why Sweden is so critical to me.  Being in Ohio, population ~11 mil, Michigan pop ~ 10 mil and Sweden pop ~10 mil.  Sweden's worse off then Ohio but better than Michigan (in terms of deaths) so will they mitigate or escalate?  If the former than USA should do ok.  If the latter look out.

 

Part of what makes this country great is that independent spirit and not wanting to be told what to do by our government.  Sadly, it works against us now.  If people were exploding blood in the streets maybe more people would wake up and realize the importance of lockdown and preventative measures.  But, given Sweden's results thus far I'm hopeful reopening doesn't create a bigger mess.

 

You look at how S. Korea, China took symptomatic people and isolated them in gyms, dorms, etc.  There'd be a civil war here if we tried to do that!

So, here we go...

[GaryPinC]

38 minutes ago, BillsFan4 said:

 

This is a good twitter thread. Worth reading IMO.

Two things:  1. Increased and focused testing can make a difference.  4/17 to 4/21 Ohio had enough extra testing and targeted their prisons which exploded the new cases.  The vast majority were asymptomatic and probably never would have been tested under normal circumstances.

 

2.  While the 17% per week sounds intimidating, Ohio, which IMO has done a good job with their flattening, sees at least a 2% daily increase of cases and often 3-4% (especially since increased testing).  Looking at the above numbers, 24,322 to 28,437 over a week:    2% of 24,322 = 486          4% of 24,322 = 972 

                                                                           486 x 7 days = 3402              972 x 7 = 6804

Which in itself can account for the weekly increase.  Obviously they need to start shrinking but bottom line are not unusual.

 

In Ohio, despite the 2-4% increasing cases, the number of intensive care patients is s-l-o-wly coming down and overall hospitalized is static.   

https://www.cleveland.com/coronavirus/2020/05/mapping-ohios-21576-coronavirus-cases-wednedays-updates-and-trends.html

[Gray Beard]

I noticed on a map posted by @Hapless Bills Fan a couple posts up that there is a hot spot in the middle of New York State.  This is the reason...

 

https://www.syracuse.com/coronavirus/2020/05/green-empire-farms-outbreak-madison-county-tests-150-more-farmworkers-for-coronavirus.html

 

A huge greenhouse in the middle of nowhere halfway between Utica and Syracuse has hundreds of workers with crowded living and working conditions.  It’s somewhat similar to the meat packing plant problems in the middle of the country.   Once it gets started, it gets to almost everybody. 

[BillsFan4]

https://docs.house.gov/meetings/AP/AP07/20200506/110747/HHRG-116-AP07-Wstate-RiversC-20200506.pdf

 

This is Dr. Cainlin Rivers opening statement to congress from the house appropriations subcommittee hearing Wednesday. It’s worth reading.

 

 

Quote

......

 

Current situation: The coronavirus pandemic is one the gravest challenges the world has faced in modern times. As of this writing, there have been over 3.3 million cases and 240,000 deaths worldwide, including the tragic loss of over 65,000 American lives. This toll is compounded by the severe economic losses stemming from the strict physical distancing measures we have had to take to slow transmission of COVID-19and save lives. However, these extreme efforts are working, and the number of new cases in many communities has plateaued or begun to fall.

Nonetheless, it is clear that more difficult times lay ahead. The US still faces 25- to 30,000 new cases and approximately 2,000 deaths every day, a range that held steady for the entire month of April. Many states are in the process of reopening, or are considering doing so, despite inadequate capacities to do diagnostic testing, contact tracing, and insufficient supplies of personal protective equipment. Other states not yet reopening are looking ahead to those decisions, as we all are, to try to understand how and when that transition to reopening should unfold.

It is clear to me that we are in a critical moment in this fight. We risk complacency in accepting the preventable deaths of 2,000 Americans each day. We risk complacency in accepting that our healthcare workers do not have what they need to do their jobs safely. And we risk complacency in recognizing that without continued vigilance in slowing transmission, we will again create the conditions that led to us being the worst-affected country in the world.

And so, at this critical moment, it is important that we renew our focus on the public health actions that we know are effective in defeating COVID-19. These are the strategies of South Korea, Singapore, Taiwan, New Zealand, Germany, Iceland – all of which have successfully managed to slow their spread. I will describe three capacities needed, which taken together will allow us to transition safely from staying home to a gradual reopening (steps described in link)

 

She also said that to her knowledge no state reopening meets all the gating criteria.

 

Quote

“To my knowledge, there are no states that meet all four of those criteria“

 

“The first is to see the number of new cases decline for at least two weeks, and some states have met that criteria. But there are three other criteria and we suggest they should all be met," 

 

 

[Hapless Bills Fan]

1 hour ago, GaryPinC said:

We sure are.  That's why Sweden is so critical to me.  Being in Ohio, population ~11 mil, Michigan pop ~ 10 mil and Sweden pop ~10 mil.  Sweden's worse off then Ohio but better than Michigan (in terms of deaths) so will they mitigate or escalate?  If the former than USA should do ok.  If the latter look out.

 

Part of what makes this country great is that independent spirit and not wanting to be told what to do by our government.  Sadly, it works against us now.  If people were exploding blood in the streets maybe more people would wake up and realize the importance of lockdown and preventative measures.  But, given Sweden's results thus far I'm hopeful reopening doesn't create a bigger mess.

 

You look at how S. Korea, China took symptomatic people and isolated them in gyms, dorms, etc.  There'd be a civil war here if we tried to do that!

So, here we go...

 

I wouldn't compare Sweden's outcomes to Ohio or Michigan.  Based on cell phone maps of travel, the population of Sweden is being far more mindful of reducing travel and staying home/social distancing than "locked down" Ohio or Michigan, and they don't have people in public gatherings standing maskless and shoulder to shoulder screaming.  Even if those are only a few hundred people, all it takes is for one of them to have been infected, spread it around, those people spread it around and Here We Go.

 

I'm not sure you're correct about the outcome of isolating symptomatic people or people in general.  One of the issues that was a sore spot for my friend's brother ("Major Brother" in a post a while back) was finding a way for his officers to self-isolate away from their families, to keep their families from becoming ill.    That's the point of isolating symptomatic people.  In Korea and China, they are also provided with medical observation and medical support. 

 

I expect that actually most people with covid-19 would actually like to have medical observation that will trigger an alert if (for example) their oxygen levels go low or they start to show clotting problems, and medical support such as oxygen and IV fluid if they have trouble staying hydrated, and to not increase the risk of infecting their families, instead of being sent home and told "come back only if you have trouble breathing".

 

It's one of the reasons IMO why S. Korea is having overall better outcomes for hospitalized people than we are - especially in NYC at the peak, people weren't admitted to hospital until their disease was too advanced for much to help.  It was "all or nothing".

Though probably you are correct that we'd have groups of a few hundred maskless people screaming about personal choice and liberty if the US did try to institute such a quarantine procedure.

 

 

[GaryPinC]

8 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

I wouldn't compare Sweden's outcomes to Ohio or Michigan.  Based on cell phone maps of travel, the population of Sweden is being far more mindful of reducing travel and staying home/social distancing than "locked down" Ohio or Michigan, and they don't have people in public gatherings standing maskless and shoulder to shoulder screaming.

 

Even if those are only a few hundred people, all it takes is for one of them to have been infected, spread it around, those people spread it around and Here We Go.

 

I'm not sure you're correct about the outcome of isolating symptomatic people or people in general.  One of the issues that was a sore spot for my friend's brother ("Major Brother" in a post a while back) was finding a way for his officers to self-isolate away from their families, to keep their families from becoming ill.    That's the point of isolating symptomatic people.  In Korea and China, they are also provided with medical observation and medical support. 

 

I expect that actually most people with covid-19 would actually like to have medical observation that will trigger an alert if (for example) their oxygen levels go low or they start to show clotting problems, and medical support such as oxygen and IV fluid if they have trouble staying hydrated, and to not increase the risk of infecting their families, instead of being sent home and told "come back only if you have trouble breathing".

 

It's one of the reasons IMO why S. Korea is having far better outcomes than we are - especially in NYC at the peak, people weren't admitted to hospital until their disease was too advanced for much to help.  It was "all or nothing".

 

 

It's a good point about S. Korea and NYC admitting people too late.

As far as Sweden, the picture at this market was taken April 25th  https://www.voanews.com/covid-19-pandemic/sweden-says-it-prepared-fight-covid-19-long-term

Tons of pictures of people there gathered together in restaurants, bars and parks.  Articles about nursing home staff saying they are not masked and not doing much to prevent spread of infection.

 

So yeah, I'm not impressed with their Covid flattening steps and choose to look at them in comparison to OH and MI.

 

Is your cell phone sourcing in the other directory?  Is it the US spring breakers being tracked or the general population?

[Warcodered]

What I don't get is the idea that opening back up quickly is going to magically fix the economy. I mean when this thing ramps up and more and more people are getting sick and dying who the hell is going to want to be out shopping.

[Buffalo Bills Fan]

Would early treatment, find out got covid right away gave you  hydroxychloroquine, zinc whatever helps? Before it multiply in you? I would think so. Or gives people fighting chance and being ahead of it. Plus as well can help slow down the infection rate to others. Like trying to put out a fire right away. Before get's bigger.

[Halloween Land]

1 hour ago, Warcodered said:

What I don't get is the idea that opening back up quickly is going to magically fix the economy. I mean when this thing ramps up and more and more people are getting sick and dying who the hell is going to want to be out shopping.

We don't have to open up quickly, we can open up slowly, certain parts in each state. But the bottom line is we need to open up because we can't live like this, being stuck at home. We can still practice social distancing while opening up the nation slowly. If people want to go on a vacation this summer, then they should have the right to, most hotels are open, summer comes once a year, and we only get this good weather for a short amount of time. Call me selfish, I don't care because if I wear a mask or practice social distancing then how am I  being selfish? Why would I stay inside on a nice summer day, even hanging out in your yard gets boring after a while. 

[Figster]

44 minutes ago, Halloween Land said:

We don't have to open up quickly, we can open up slowly, certain parts in each state. But the bottom line is we need to open up because we can't live like this, being stuck at home. We can still practice social distancing while opening up the nation slowly. If people want to go on a vacation this summer, then they should have the right to, most hotels are open, summer comes once a year, and we only get this good weather for a short amount of time. Call me selfish, I don't care because if I wear a mask or practice social distancing then how am I  being selfish? Why would I stay inside on a nice summer day, even hanging out in your yard gets boring after a while. 

If you are willing to wear a mask (properly) and practice social distancing you are not being selfish for wanting our way of life to get back to normal IMO.

 

We have hard working Americans in food lines to feed their children. People need to work, collect a paycheck.

 

The ones who will not wear a mask and practice social distancing are the real problem. 

[Hapless Bills Fan]

 

7 hours ago, Buffalo Bills Fan said:

Would early treatment, find out got covid right away gave you  hydroxychloroquine, zinc whatever helps? Before it multiply in you? I would think so. Or gives people fighting chance and being ahead of it. Plus as well can help slow down the infection rate to others. Like trying to put out a fire right away. Before get's bigger.

 

Your fire analogy is a good one.  The hope is that there would be some treatment that could be given to make the disease less severe or make the person not contagious.  For the same "put out fire early" reason, people are recommended to take influenza antivirals as soon as possible.

 

Unfortunately there is nothing yet that is proven to help.  There are many clinical trials ongoing. 

Hydroxychloroquine has not shown benefit for treating sick people.  There are trials of hydroxychloroquine and a bunch of other medication for treating people who have been exposed, such as healthcare workers, or who have just been tested positive but are not symptomatic.  Hopefully one or more will prove out, but they are all still ongoing (which is not good news - if something were unambiguously helpful they would halt the trial and give it to the placebo group).

[Hapless Bills Fan]

9 hours ago, GaryPinC said:

It's a good point about S. Korea and NYC admitting people too late.

As far as Sweden, the picture at this market was taken April 25th  https://www.voanews.com/covid-19-pandemic/sweden-says-it-prepared-fight-covid-19-long-term

Tons of pictures of people there gathered together in restaurants, bars and parks.  Articles about nursing home staff saying they are not masked and not doing much to prevent spread of infection.

 

So yeah, I'm not impressed with their Covid flattening steps and choose to look at them in comparison to OH and MI.

 

Is your cell phone sourcing in the other directory?  Is it the US spring breakers being tracked or the general population?

 

The part about nursing home staff not taking infection prevention measures or masking up is very concerning for their elders.  Big gap if generally true.

 

I'm a bit skeptical of pictures, they can show very localized or one-off situations.  What I hear is life being very different, much sparser, people spacing out (but not much mask wearing in public).

 

I'm not sure I understand your final comment but I think you're asking for a source on mobility data derived from cell phones.

There are several sources online.  The hardest to interpret but least processed is here, from Google. 
 

[ALF]

With so many states partially open we will know in 2 or 3 weeks if they can loosen further.

[Hapless Bills Fan]

6 hours ago, Halloween Land said:

We don't have to open up quickly, we can open up slowly, certain parts in each state. But the bottom line is we need to open up because we can't live like this, being stuck at home. We can still practice social distancing while opening up the nation slowly. If people want to go on a vacation this summer, then they should have the right to, most hotels are open, summer comes once a year, and we only get this good weather for a short amount of time. Call me selfish, I don't care because if I wear a mask or practice social distancing then how am I  being selfish? Why would I stay inside on a nice summer day, even hanging out in your yard gets boring after a while. 

 

We need to open up, but we need to meet the criteria first.   The Federal reopening guidelines were actually pretty well-thought-out.

 

If you wear a mask and practice social distancing you aren't being selfish, and in fact in many areas with stay at home orders, it is not expected to stay inside, it is allowed to go to a park for exercise or to enjoy fresh air  - just asked that if the parking is full, consider that the park is also full and go elsewhere.

Vacations are a mixed thing.  Of course many local economies depend upon vacationers to come and spend money in hotels, restaurants, bars, and activities.  But if people come on vacation and engage in behavior that exposes the community, many more rural parts of the country don't have the hospital capacity to take care of their own, much less vacationers.
 

15 minutes ago, ALF said:

With so many states partially open we will know in 2 or 3 weeks if they can loosen further.

 

Not long enough.  3-14 day incubation period, 2 weeks can be only one infection cycle.  A lot of asymptomatic spread, it can spread for a couple of infection cycles then reach some vulnerable populations and take off.

 

I know, I know, I'm Debbie Downer here.

[Lurker]

[KD in CA]

15 minutes ago, Lurker said:

 

At this stage, I'd say a haircut is worth about 6-8 lives.  Maybe 10-12 if they are all people like her.

[Hapless Bills Fan]

13 hours ago, BillsFan4 said:

 

 

America used to have the foremost expertise in how to fight an epidemic.  We literally wrote the book the rest of the world now uses.

 

Many of those people, that expertise, are still in the CDC

 

They are demoralized as all get out.  They are literally working super-hard to do what they know how to do - only to see their work pushed aside or thrown in the trash while inexperienced tyros fumble around reinventing the wheel (or trying to replace the wheel with a triangle)

 

I'm not saying the CDC didn't have its missteps.  It did.  But Fauci, although a good scientist and a good man, is NOT an epidemiologist and it shows sometimes in what he says. 

 

We really need to put epidemiologists in charge and empower them to get us out of this.

 

[Punching Bag]

13 hours ago, GaryPinC said:

We sure are.  That's why Sweden is so critical to me.  Being in Ohio, population ~11 mil, Michigan pop ~ 10 mil and Sweden pop ~10 mil.  Sweden's worse off then Ohio but better than Michigan (in terms of deaths) so will they mitigate or escalate?  If the former than USA should do ok.  If the latter look out.

 

Part of what makes this country great is that independent spirit and not wanting to be told what to do by our government.  Sadly, it works against us now.  If people were exploding blood in the streets maybe more people would wake up and realize the importance of lockdown and preventative measures.  But, given Sweden's results thus far I'm hopeful reopening doesn't create a bigger mess.

 

You look at how S. Korea, China took symptomatic people and isolated them in gyms, dorms, etc.  There'd be a civil war here if we tried to do that!

So, here we go...

 

Look how many BAD things government told people and contributed to issue including those by in health employed by government.

The government has silenced whistle blowers. I have gotten campaign material which was stressing these decisions!

Look at some of the previous decisions by our government including Japanese lockdowns during WWII with absolutely no evidence of any Japanese doing any sort of espionage with plenty of evidence of those with German and Italian heritage.

 

If our government told me I needed to go into a dorm I'd question them yes and for good reasons.

I'll listen to medical personal but NOT those connected to government at any level.

[Doc Brown]

50 minutes ago, KD in CA said:

 

At this stage, I'd say a haircut is worth about 6-8 lives.  Maybe 10-12 if they are all people like her.

I never thought I'd google "black market barber shops" before.

[Doc Brown]

8 hours ago, Figster said:

If you are willing to wear a mask (properly) and practice social distancing you are not being selfish for wanting our way of life to get back to normal IMO.

 

We have hard working Americans in food lines to feed their children. People need to work, collect a paycheck.

 

The ones who will not wear a mask and practice social distancing are the real problem. 

Seems to me the people unwilling to wear a mask seem to be the one's most bullish on reopening everything asap.  

[Hapless Bills Fan]

12 hours ago, Gray Beard said:

I noticed on a map posted by @Hapless Bills Fan a couple posts up that there is a hot spot in the middle of New York State.  This is the reason...

 

https://www.syracuse.com/coronavirus/2020/05/green-empire-farms-outbreak-madison-county-tests-150-more-farmworkers-for-coronavirus.html

 

A huge greenhouse in the middle of nowhere halfway between Utica and Syracuse has hundreds of workers with crowded living and working conditions.  It’s somewhat similar to the meat packing plant problems in the middle of the country.   Once it gets started, it gets to almost everybody. 

 

Thanks for the info!  It sounds, in fact, very analogous to the meat packing plants of the midwest.

 

It seems to me that starting with Washington state, there's a pattern:

1) Patient A infected with covid-19.  Attempts to trace contacts and test focus on people Patient A remembers or has had most/closest contact with

2) Meanwhile covid-19 from Patient A has spread outside that most/closest circle, quite possibly asymptomatically

3) covid-19 spends 2-3 reproduction cycles spreading silently in non-susceptible population

4) Several of those cases propegate into a super-spreader situation (church choir etc) or into a susceptible environment (care home, nursing home) and blow up

 

It'll be interesting to see what happens in Buchanan County and Kansas City, MO from the Triumph meat packing plant.  The key there is about 60 of the infected Triumph workers live in Kansas City, which has not been heavily stricken for whatever reason.

[Punching Bag]

12 hours ago, Warcodered said:

What I don't get is the idea that opening back up quickly is going to magically fix the economy. I mean when this thing ramps up and more and more people are getting sick and dying who the hell is going to want to be out shopping.

 

Well some businesses seems to think so.  One was advertising on radio to come down to their dealerships (Toyota / Honda brands) while there were great sales when there were few customers.  That radio ad did not last very long before someone at station told them to change it or remove it.  Even seen some small clothing only stores open with half price sales.

 

We have only been out to buy food and every store we have been in but one has had restricted entries and almost everyone wore masks.

We went to office supply store for something I needed to continue to work at home and it was only customer but that was partially done due to work on parking lot preventing access to store except if you knew back way from another shopping plaza and behind all of the buildings in shopping plaza.

 

Note: We have seen multiple work zones both on roads and in parking lots and in not one was anyone wearing a mask.  Evidently in Virginia this type of work is considered "essential" while other small businesses go under. 

Edited May 8, 2020 by Limeaid
typo

[Punching Bag]

11 hours ago, Doc Brown said:

Seems to me the people unwilling to wear a mask seem to be the one's most bullish on reopening everything asap.  

 

Here is a sign for them.

 

[Process]

22 hours ago, Warcodered said:

What I don't get is the idea that opening back up quickly is going to magically fix the economy. I mean when this thing ramps up and more and more people are getting sick and dying who the hell is going to want to be out shopping.

The economy is screwed no matter what. Even if everything opened up 100% tomorrow. Most people don't realize how ****ed they/we are and are in for a big wake up call. 

[Figster]

12 hours ago, Doc Brown said:

Seems to me the people unwilling to wear a mask seem to be the one's most bullish on reopening everything asap.  

Such a good point to make, thanks Doc Brown,

 

Here in Erie County Pa we entered into the yellow phase after seeing the biggest spike our county has seen yesterday. Our numbers are still very low, but it goes to show the need for unity.

 

Its imparative everyone works together on this Doc...

 

 

[Doc Brown]

40 minutes ago, Figster said:

Such a good point to make, thanks Doc Brown,

 

Here in Erie County Pa we entered into the yellow phase after seeing the biggest spike our county has seen yesterday. Our numbers are still very low, but it goes to show the need for unity.

 

Its imparative everyone works together on this Doc...

Spike in new cases or deaths as increased testing capabilities could be responsible.

 

I'm pretty bullish when it comes to working as quickly as possible to open things up, but we have to wear masks and social distance or we'll be back to square one.  The "no masks" crowd drives me nuts.

[Figster]

 

43 minutes ago, Doc Brown said:

Spike in new cases or deaths as increased testing capabilities could be responsible.

 

I'm pretty bullish when it comes to working as quickly as possible to open things up, but we have to wear masks and social distance or we'll be back to square one.  The "no masks" crowd drives me nuts.

Myself personally, from my own observations I've watched a decrease in the use of masks and other protective measures taken in my community since the announcement of our county going into the yellow phase. Mostly house/yard gatherings albeit and probably with close friends or other family members. Just watched a group across the street pulling up, younger couple with their son carrying a hanging basket of flowers. In all likelihood a mothers day gift. Nobody wearing a mask visting senior citizens.

 

If you visit mom on mothers Day, for those of us who are fortunate enough to do so, pls wear a mask for moms sake.

 

 

Edited May 8, 2020 by Figster

[Hapless Bills Fan]

2 hours ago, Doc Brown said:

Spike in new cases or deaths as increased testing capabilities could be responsible.

 

I'm pretty bullish when it comes to working as quickly as possible to open things up, but we have to wear masks and social distance or we'll be back to square one.  The "no masks" crowd drives me nuts.

 

Confused here: What do increased deaths have to do with increased testing capabilities?

I think two ways in my mind about increased testing showing increased cases.

 

On the one hand.....sure, if you start testing more, and see more cases, it doesn't mean the scope of the disease problem is getting worse, it just means you're seeing the scope of the problem better.

 

On the other hand, if you test more and start seeing more cases, it means you haven't been testing enough to really understand the scope of the problem you have and make good decisions about it.  When you look at places like (say) Tompkins County, as they started testing more they didn't really see more cases, the % of positives just dropped (good thing, 'cuz the Drs and Nurses were off in NYC as relief staff.

 

I personally feel that if our leaders had really pushed a consistent message from the start to mask up and required businesses to space people out, we could probably have left a lot more stuff open.  But after NYC started ballooning out of control, they were understandably nervous of seeing NYC all over the country and wanted to shut down hard.

 

More and more, I think the teachings of EIS (epidemic school at CDC) are right: a public health crisis is a communications problem as much or more as it is a health problem.

 

2 hours ago, Figster said:

Myself personally, from my own observations I've watched a decrease in the use of masks and other protective measures taken in my community since the announcement of our county going into the yellow phase. Mostly house/yard gatherings albeit and probably with close friends or other family members. Just watched a group across the street pulling up, younger couple with their son carrying a hanging basket of flowers. In all likelihood a mothers day gift. Nobody wearing a mask visting senior citizens.

 

If you visit mom on mothers Day, for those of us who are fortunate enough to do so, pls wear a mask for moms sake.

 

At least around here, there are very mixed messages.  We have our Missouri governor calling mask wearing "a personal choice, and I choose not to" at the same time as we have businesses increasingly saying "no mask, no admittance".  I think people are confused. 

I, too, see fewer people on the street wearing masks in the last few days.  And it's a shame, because I think if we all do wear masks, we could open up and stay open.

 

[Punching Bag]

'What are we doing this for?': Doctors are fed up with conspiracies ravaging ERs
"I left work and I felt so deflated," one doctor said about an effort to counter misinformation he saw on Facebook. "I let it get to me."

https://www.nbcnews.com/tech/tech-news/what-are-we-doing-doctors-are-fed-conspiracies-ravaging-ers-n1201446?utm_source=pocket-newtab

Quote

Dr. Duncan Maru, a physician and epidemiologist in Queens, New York, said he had heard from colleagues that a young patient had come into the emergency room last week with damage to his intestinal tract after having ingested bleach. The incident occurred just days after President Donald Trump suggested that "injection" of disinfectants should be researched as a potential coronavirus treatment.

 

Edited May 8, 2020 by Limeaid
added title

[Gray Beard]

1 hour ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

Confused here: What do increased deaths have to do with increased testing capabilities?

 

I assume more testing = more deaths refers to documenting the cause of death.  
 

Cuomo got skewered in social media when they added “probable” covid deaths to the death count.

 

Many places in the world (Mexico, for example) have low stats for covid deaths, but the dead bodies are stacking up at a much higher rate than is being reported. 
 

It may take years to get an accurate death count, and some people will dispute it no matter what.

[Hapless Bills Fan]

36 minutes ago, OldTimeAFLGuy said:

 

...with the flood of data and no apparent consistency in sample sizes, release before peer review et al (perhaps rushed to publication for a whole host of never ending reasons), how do you and your scientific colleagues ferret it all out  to hopefully arrive at a reliable database albeit 50% or optimistically 75% to begin to draw viable conclusions going forward to be beneficial?....seems like an unenviable yeoman's task to a layperson...

 

I'm not sure about the question here?

 

 

[bdutton]

https://i.imgur.com/hCmArh4.mp4

[Bad Things]

On 5/8/2020 at 1:39 AM, BillsFan4 said:

 

 

This.

I hate to say it, but this is what is being projected to the rest of the world.

 

While almost every other country has bonded together to collectively fight this virus for their own common good, America just seems to be awash in mixed messages and in-fighting.

It certainly does not project the image of a strong, resilient country.

 

Again, please don't get me wrong, I'm only wanting to see a positive outcome for you/us all.

[Punching Bag]

This is way this country has been since Vietnam war.

[Nervous Guy]

54 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

I'm not sure about the question here?

 

 

How do you go about sorting out the good science from the junk and draw any dependable recommendations or conclusions?

[K-9]

3 minutes ago, Bad Things said:

 

This.

I hate to say it, but this is what is being projected to the rest of the world.

 

While almost every other country has bonded together to collectively fight this virus for their own common good, America just seems to be awash in mixed messages and in-fighting.

It certainly does not project the image of a strong, resilient country.

 

Again, please don't get me wrong, I'm only wanting to see a positive outcome for you/us all.

In another life, I had the good fortune of traveling the world and meeting folks on nearly every continent. Everywhere I went, people expressed admiration for my country and the idea it represented to the world. In speaking to some people from overseas lately, it’s the exact opposite; they are embarrassed for me. And I have to agree. We’ve lost our leadership role and our response to this pandemic has driven that home.
 

Like @Hapless Bills Fan has said several times, we literally wrote the book for the rest of the world when it comes to managing pandemics. Now, we don’t even know how to read it.