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Another Argument for Bills to Not Build a Billion $ Palace in B/Lo

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13 minutes ago, RochesterRob said:

  The whole idea of a big upgrade for New Era or a new facility is to tap into new revenue streams.  No, you are not going to extract double the seat value drawing from Erie County alone.  The NFL and the Pegula's want to draw from much farther away from places such as Toronto, Rochester, and Syracuse to name a few places and they are targeting the top income brackets in those places.  That is the only way a new 60-65K seat facility is going to work in terms of revenue.

 

What's awesome about the Bills wanting to draw from Rochester is the fact they probably will move training camp as soon as the contract expires smh

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13 minutes ago, RochesterRob said:

  The whole idea of a big upgrade for New Era or a new facility is to tap into new revenue streams.  No, you are not going to extract double the seat value drawing from Erie County alone.  The NFL and the Pegula's want to draw from much farther away from places such as Toronto, Rochester, and Syracuse to name a few places and they are targeting the top income brackets in those places.  That is the only way a new 60-65K seat facility is going to work in terms of revenue.


The Bills have been successfully tapping into those areas for twenty years. Is there that much more to be tapped, corporate wise, that hasn’t already been? Has that much more new big corporate money moved into those areas? I honestly don’t know. 

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2 minutes ago, corta765 said:

 

What's awesome about the Bills wanting to draw from Rochester is the fact they probably will move training camp as soon as the contract expires smh

  I don't know what the Pegula's have in mind for a new camp location.  It has been said that the NFL is trending towards having camp at a team's home facility.  That might be more efficient and a better sell to new players who bring family with them to their new NFL city.  Anyways, the Pegula's could bring it back to OP, stay at SJF, go south of Buffalo, go into NF, go across the river into Ontario Province among the possibilities.  Each location has its merits and drawbacks.

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2 minutes ago, K-9 said:


The Bills have been successfully tapping into those areas for twenty years. Is there that much more to be tapped, corporate wise, that hasn’t already been? Has that much more new big corporate money moved into those areas? I honestly don’t know. 

  It's been said that while Ralph owned the team that the general uncertainty of the team's future was a roadblock in terms of getting a substantial amount of that money to commit.  The mediocre seasons also did not help.  I would guess that most of the tapping for the last 30 years has been into a moderate income level for those areas.  Anyways, I would bet that the Pegula's have researched what is out there yet to be gotten.

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12 minutes ago, RochesterRob said:

  You talk about a billion dollars as though it was found change in your sofa.  The Pegula's probably could source a billion dollars rather readily over a few months but the NFL wants them to play the ransom game in terms if the public does not want to pay then the team will get moved at some point.  Give me a realistic public financing plan versus saying the Mayor of Buffalo, Erie County Executive, and the Governor of NY GOTTA pony up.

 

Pegula's SHOULD pay for most of the new stadium... 

 

With that said, look no further from the New York Power Authority - a literal cash cow in our backyard taking in a TON of money. They helped with the build out of Canal Side and they should help secure the future of the Buffalo Bills in our own backyard.

 

I would even advocate that the Public Bridge Authority should throw in some funds from that cash cow, too.

 

I also bet you will see other private developers (aka Delaware North who alluded they were conflicted buying the Bills but would be interested in a partnership with a new stadium.)

 

It's going to take a creative public-private investment to make a reno or new build work.

 

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5 minutes ago, buffalobillsfootball said:

 

Pegula's SHOULD pay for most of the new stadium... 

 

With that said, look no further from the New York Power Authority - a literal cash cow in our backyard taking in a TON of money. They helped with the build out of Canal Side and they should help secure the future of the Buffalo Bills in our own backyard.

 

I would even advocate that the Public Bridge Authority should throw in some funds from that cash cow, too.

 

I also bet you will see other private developers (aka Delaware North who alluded they were conflicted buying the Bills but would be interested in a partnership with a new stadium.)

 

It's going to take a creative public-private investment to make a reno or new build work.

 

  Don't know much about either NYPA or the PBA but what kind of money are you talking about and why don't we see talk about this outside of this forum?

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1 minute ago, RochesterRob said:

  Don't know much about either NYPA or the PBA but what kind of money are you talking about and why don't we see talk about this outside of this forum?

 

You think the Pegula's are going to announce anything that is half baked?

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1 minute ago, buffalobillsfootball said:

 

You think the Pegula's are going to announce anything that is half baked?

  I'm thinking more along the lines that somebody like the Erie County Exec or leading state senator or power broker regional congress person merely suggesting a dialog take place in terms of exploring what is possible.  Nobody is saying that the Pegula's should spout off without talking to a key player in such a move first.  Heck, the kickoff could come in terms of a column put out by a respected (there's a laugh) member of the area media.  

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There can be no significant renovation of the current stadium because it's half-buried in the ground and the foundations are set. They want wider concourses at the 100 level. That will not happen with a renovation. It would cost as much if not more to renovate than build new.  Never mind the ticket pricing issue for a stadium that's basically the same as the old one.

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3 minutes ago, buffalobillsfootball said:

You think the Pegula's are going to announce anything that is half baked?

.....like County Exec Poloncarz did today with his near half billion ($441,000,000) hair brained convention center proposal. 

 

Yeah, the Pegula's just got another reason to be leery of this guy.

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1 minute ago, RochesterRob said:

  I'm thinking more along the lines that somebody like the Erie County Exec or leading state senator or power broker regional congress person merely suggesting a dialog take place in terms of exploring what is possible.  Nobody is saying that the Pegula's should spout off without talking to a key player in such a move first.  Heck, the kickoff could come in terms of a column put out by a respected (there's a laugh) member of the area media.  

 

I think powers that be are talking behind the scenes but no body can do anything until the Pegula's make an announcement. Once the cat is out the bag look out - everyone will chime in.

Just now, I am the egg man said:

.....like County Exec Poloncarz did today with his near half billion ($441,000,000) hair brained convention center proposal. 

 

Yeah, the Pegula's just got another reason to be leery of this guy.

 

Today's news is nothing more than Poloncarzs' trying to force his way in on the stadium conversation. Unfortunately for Mark - he will likely be the last to the table regarding the stadium.

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54 minutes ago, buffalobillsfootball said:

Today's news is nothing more than Poloncarzs' trying to force his way in on the stadium conversation. Unfortunately for Mark - he will likely be the last to the table regarding the stadium.

Agreed. It was hollow bravado with a veiled thumb of the nose.

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2 hours ago, apuszczalowski said:

They know the market, it's one that financially is not one that can support the current NFL. If Buffalo didn't have the Bills, would anyone seriously believe the NFL would be interested in granting them an expansion team?

 

If the market cannot support paying average NFL ticket prices, and there's no corporations willing to pay market value prices for boxes/suites, then the area can't support the NFL. It's why they tried to expand the market to play games in Toronto, if Buffalo could get support from Toronto, it could bring in some of the money from there to help out 

 

 

Well, if they really need and want both, building both together is going to be alot more affordable then doing them separate and would keep the total cost down on the project. It's easier for everyone to digest spending a $billion if they get a convention centre and stadium, instead of saying $800 million for a stadium and $500 million for a convention centre (and I am just using those numbers as examples, they will most likely be different)

 

 

Who is "they"?  The County has made clear they don't want to be footing a huge bill for a new stadium, so adding to their financial commitment/burden another few hundred million for an associated convention center that will be another financial loser makes zero sense.

 

Building another convention center would be dumb enough financially for the county all on it's own, so why would spending twice as much for both be a better decision?

 

There's no logic to any of this.  Spending a ton of taxpayer money poorly would be bad, but spending 2 tons would "be a lot more affordable".

 

Yikes.

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Very interesting thread, although 99.9% of everything in here is pure speculation, or a "WAG", as we used to call it. LOL

 

My favorite part is one poster accusing another poster of being a "troll" or "super troll" for simply posting his honest opinions about the matter. There's seems to be a real lack of knowledge about the meaning of "trolling", "brigading", and "spamming" in this forum. Oh well, ignorance is bliss, I guess!

 

You can put me down as someone who agrees with those that feel that taxpayer money spent for billionaires' new playgrounds should be kept at an absolute minimum, like zero, if possible.

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1 hour ago, Mr. WEO said:

 

 

Who is "they"?  The County has made clear they don't want to be footing a huge bill for a new stadium, so adding to their financial commitment/burden another few hundred million for an associated convention center that will be another financial loser makes zero sense.

 

Building another convention center would be dumb enough financially for the county all on it's own, so why would spending twice as much for both be a better decision?

 

There's no logic to any of this.  Spending a ton of taxpayer money poorly would be bad, but spending 2 tons would "be a lot more affordable".

 

Yikes.


The Buffalo Bills are bigger than Erie County. 
 

Mark is all butt hurt he doesn’t have a seat at the table.

 

The Pegula’s know what the county can bring to the table.

 

Exciting times for sure.

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18 hours ago, Buffalo716 said:

Everybody has opinions

 

Troll? Everybody on this board knows I'm not a troll as a poster so that's laughable

 

You don't like my take on this issue? It's your right

 

But to call me out as a super troll is laughable when the community knows that isn't true

 

I got like 10 meh reactions today and they were like all from you..ive been an everyday poster on this board for years and you just doubled my meh reactions! That's literally how little meh reactions I've had cus I'm not a troll

 

Like dude,  you don't like my opinion on the stadium , guess what I'm not the only one who thinks like that ... It's your opinion.. my family's been season ticket holders for 2 generations I can have an opinion

 

And you take offense to my view of the city I love and lived in my whole life? It's a beautiful city that has a poverty problem..

 

I see you taking exception and this random buffalobills guy that I have never interacted with once in years. Not ALOT of people lol

 

Buffalo is WAYY more than downtown or Allentown or Elmwood village... The east and west sides are impoverished and lots of other parts aren't good as well. The drug and gang problem is crazy, I have a house on the Eastside I know

 

I'm not even knocking my city, that's why I never left but it's the truth that it's residents are struggling in a lot of places and statistics back it

 

Sure Elmwood village and Allentown and North Buffalo are gorgeous and doing good economically but that isn't all of buffalo

 

My POINT this whole time was taxpayers footed 75% of the last refurb .. if pegula foots 75% it can go anywhere and I will be happy.. if taxpayers are footing that 50-75% it needs to be economically feasible for all.. and a stadium in OP will probably be cheaper than one downtown... If it's not put it wherever he wants

 

I think thats very reasonable and not outlandish at all.. and when I get quoted I usually respond so I'm sorry if you found me repetitive

 

We should agree to disagree and leave it at that

 

 

 

 

 

Fair enough you win. Super troll is what I used due to the repetitiveness of your positions. I will even agree with some of your points. But you're painting us as a completely downtrodden place and we aren't and I take exception to being painted that way.

 

I respect your comment that if Pegula pays 75% you're on board with it. But what if he puts in 60% State 30% County 10% ?? Or some other variation that isn't local government heavy because there is a mutual agreement on our part that the County would be hard pressed to pay much at all. Oh and for good measure the arena situation will be 100% private money. I hope. 

 

I'm pretty sure it's happening and have always said they should demolish the Perry projects and reinvent that whole area. I am hopeful that when it's all done it is a part of Buffalo coming back and being a place on the rise instead of the downtrodden picture you keep presenting. And please. I live here too and have had seasons for both teams and so on...

I want to be here for the upswing of this place and be able to take some pride in showing it off. I will get off my meh crusade with you though. Take care and Go Bills!

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5 minutes ago, beerme1 said:

 

Fair enough you win. Super troll is what I used due to the repetitiveness of your positions. I will even agree with some of your points. But you're painting us as a completely downtrodden place and we aren't and I take exception to being painted that way.

 

I respect your comment that if Pegula pays 75% you're on board with it. But what if he puts in 60% State 30% County 10% ?? Or some other variation that isn't local government heavy because there is a mutual agreement on our part that the County would be hard pressed to pay much at all. Oh and for good measure the arena situation will be 100% private money. I hope. 

 

I'm pretty sure it's happening and have always said they should demolish the Perry projects and reinvent that whole area. I am hopeful that when it's all done it is a part of Buffalo coming back and being a place on the rise instead of the downtrodden picture you keep presenting. And please. I live here too and have had seasons for both teams and so on...

I want to be here for the upswing of this place and be able to take some pride in showing it off. I will get off my meh crusade with you though. Take care and Go Bills!

Cheers! No hard feelings!

 

And I would never paint buffalo as a completely downtrodden place on purpose. As i said it is a gorgeous city with many beautiful places and landmarks and I TRULY BELIEVE we are seeing the revitalization of this great city

 

I have gone all over the country and I take my buffalo pride everywhere

 

I just can compartmentalize gorgeous places like Elwood village and North Buffalo and Allentown and Downtown and realize people on the east and west side and parts of south side aren't as fortunate

 

And I would have no problem with the bolded

 

Cheers

 

 

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On 2/12/2020 at 4:51 AM, Buffalo716 said:

Well first because war memorial isn't in the greatest neighborhood

 

So the History argument is only valid if that history happened in what is now a good neighborhood? If its a bad neighborhood we skip ahead?

 

 

Quote

 

And 56 bucks for pizza and wings? What are you serving 20 people?

 

3. Me and my two adult sons normally watch the game together.

 

Quote

 

Unless I was having a party I would never spend that much on pizza and wings and I order pizza and wings a lot honestly

 

I just looked it up:

 

Lanovas

Family Pak with Wings $59.99

Bocces
1 Whole Pizza 18.63
One double order of wings $19.82

Avenue
Large Cheese and Pepperoni Pizza and Chicken Wings $34.79

 

With taxes those are all close to $50 dollars. If your ordering those tiny tasteless dominoes or Pizza huts Pizzas your probably in the minority in Buffalo...... and you should be ashamed of yourself.

 

Quote

 

And yes obviously you are doing great money wise.. you know who isn't ? Most people liviing in the city.

 

You and me and probably most here are probably doing well enough but the people in the city by and large aren't

 

I am retired military, enlisted not officer. I doubt many would think my retirement check was that great.

 

I also live in the city and Lanova's, one of the most expensive Pizza joints in the area is in the City on the west side and they dont seem to be lacking for customers. Also when I drive through riverside, the west side, or any other part of the city in the morning I see lines of cars full of people buying $5 cups of coffee when we all have coffee makers at home. An extra couple of bucks 8 times a year isn't going to break the bank for most people already attending Bills games.

 

This concern about poor city people....... If your concerned you shouldn't be. If the stadium is downtown we wont have to pay to get out to OP and wont have to pay ridiculous parking fees once we get there. Even if they raised ticket prices it would be cheaper for us poor city people to hop the train downtown and walk to the stadium like we we do for Sabres or Bison's games. If they raised ticket prices 25 dollars tomorrow and moved the stadium downtown that is still a net positive gain for me.

 

Just be honest. You want in to stay in OP because your used to it. All these post about "poverty" and "history" is just a coverup for "I am lazy and I am used to this so I dont want it to change" or worse "I live in the burbs and the thought of going in to the city terrifies me"

 

I get it. This is Buffalo, this is what we do. We dont want anything to change. Its one of the reason I came back here instead of retiring in a military town like all my buddies did. I actually love this place and am cursed with thinking the same way. I wish I could go downtown and get one of those big greasy burgers they used to serve at Grants lunch counter. After that I would grab coffee at Your Host and on the weekends I would get taffy and fudge at crystal beach.

 

Woolworth's anyone?

 

"Passengers please buckle your seat belts and prepare for landing. We will be arriving in Buffalo NY shortly. Please set your clocks and watches back 30 years."

 

Times have changed. We have to change with them.

 

Edited by steven50
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3 minutes ago, steven50 said:

 

So the History argument is only valid if that history happened in what is now a good neighborhood? If its a bad neighborhood we skip ahead?

 

 

 

3. Me and my two adult sons normally watch the game together.

 

 

I just looked it up:

 

Lanovas

Family Pak with Wings $59.99

Bocces
1 Whole Pizza 18.63
One double order of wings $19.82

Avenue
Large Cheese and Pepperoni Pizza and Chicken Wings $34.79

 

With taxes those are all close to $50 dollars. If your ordering those tiny tasteless dominoes or Pizza huts Pizzas your probably in the minority in Buffalo...... and you should be ashamed of yourself.

 

 

I am retired military, enlisted not officer. I doubt many would think my retirement check was that great.

 

I also live in the city and Lanova's, one of the most expensive Pizza joints in the area is in the City on the west side and they dont seem to be lacking for customers. Also when I drive through riverside, the west side, or any other part of the city in the morning I see lines of cars full of people buying $5 cups of coffee when we all have coffee makers at home. An extra couple of bucks 8 times a year isn't going to break the bank for most people already attending Bills games.

 

This concern about poor city people....... If your concerned you shouldn't be. If the stadium is downtown we wont have to pay to get out to OP and wont have to pay ridiculous parking fees once we get there. Even if they raised ticket prices it would be cheaper for us poor city people to hop the train downtown and walk to the stadium like we we do for Sabres or Bison's games. If they raised ticket prices 25 dollars tomorrow and moved the stadium downtown that is still a net positive gain for me.

 

Just be honest. You want in to stay in OP because your used to it. All these post about "poverty" and "history" is just a coverup for "I am lazy and I am used to this so I dont want it to change" or worse "I live in the burbs and thought of going in to the city terrifies me"

 

I get it. This is Buffalo, this is what we do. We dont want anything to change. Its one of the reason I came back here instead of retiring in a military town like all my buddies did. I actually love this place and am cursed with thinking the same way. I wish I could go downtown and get one of those big greasy burgers they used to serve at Grants lunch counter. After that I would grab coffee at Your Host and on the weekends I would get taffy and fudge at crystal beach.

 

Woolworth's anyone?

 

"Passengers please buckle your seat belts and prepare for landing. We will be arriving in Buffalo NY shortly. Please set your clocks and watches back 30 years."

 

Times have changed. We have to change with them.

 

First . Thank you for your service

 

Second, Ew gross Domino's? I'm a Buffalonian man!

 

I just ordered a medium pizza and 10 wings for my girl and I today from Picasso's. 27 bucks good deal...  I can definitely see your price for 3 grown men tho 

 

Third War memorial IS absolutely a piece of Bills history in my mind and should never be forgotten. The AFL years are still super important in my mind.. But it's really not the greatest part of town and there are just better options for the stadium imo 

 

And I brought up the poverty because I have a house on the Eastside and see lots of poverty and struggling

 

Top 3 pizza joints in Buffalo?

 

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I know Lanovas is number 1 for business, not sure about the others...... That's just were I order from😁

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47 minutes ago, steven50 said:

I know Lanovas is number 1 for business, not sure about the others...... That's just were I order from😁

Gotcha lol I was asking for your top 3 

 

LaNovas

LaNovas

LaNovas

 

They do make a good pie 👍

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On 2/12/2020 at 2:46 PM, Mr. WEO said:

He has the money; it's there..

 

 

I got ridiculed for even suggesting this, but I believe El Pugaul will throw his ginormous junk on the table, pay for it all, receive all the benefits and glory, and, as Captain Kirk Cousins said, say "YOU LIKE THAT?"

 

I dont believe that Mr and Mrs Pegula are the type to take their money to the grave.

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