LabattBlue Posted April 11, 2005 Share Posted April 11, 2005 I heard this on Jim Rome earlier today..... GLASGOW, Scotland -- Celtic advanced to the Scottish Cup final after beating Hearts 2-1. Craig Bellamy and Chris Sutton each scored a goal. Celtic, which won its 32nd Scottish Cup last season, will play Dundee United in the final May 28. Dundee United topped Hibernian 2-1 on Saturday. Hearts fans booed during a minute's silence for Pope John Paul II, who died last weekend, and referee Stuart Dougal was forced to end it early. Most Celtic supporters are Catholic. Nice going. Maybe they can unify with the soccer fans from Mexico who shouted "Osama" at the recent World Cup game in Mexico City versus the US. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stuckincincy Posted April 11, 2005 Share Posted April 11, 2005 Americans, with all our warts, are much more decent, respectful, and prize honor and integrity moreso than much of the rest of the world. It's that darn religious foundation the Founding Fathers spoke about, I guess. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aussiew Posted April 11, 2005 Share Posted April 11, 2005 Americans, with all our warts, are much more decent, respectful, and prize honor and integrity moreso than much of the rest of the world. It's that darn religious foundation the Founding Fathers spoke about, I guess. Perhaps our decency, honor and integrity is just on the surface Cincy. 'Cause if it were really true, how do we account for much higher rates of child pornography, child molestation, child and spousal abuse etc. etc. than other western nations? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
philburger1 Posted April 11, 2005 Share Posted April 11, 2005 Perhaps our decency, honor and integrity is just on the surface Cincy. 'Cause if it were really true, how do we account for much higher rates of child pornography, child molestation, child and spousal abuse etc. etc. than other western nations? 301845[/snapback] Well, child and spousal abuse is much more common in the Middle East, but to them it is not a crime. You can kill your wife if she "ruins your honer". Or stone hem to death for having an affair. Food for thought Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aussiew Posted April 11, 2005 Share Posted April 11, 2005 Well, child and spousal abuse is much more common in the Middle East, but to them it is not a crime. You can kill your wife if she "ruins your honer". Or stone hem to death for having an affair. Food for thought Good point - but I was just considering a comparison to other "Western" nations in which Christians are in the majority. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Adams Posted April 11, 2005 Share Posted April 11, 2005 Perhaps our decency, honor and integrity is just on the surface Cincy. 'Cause if it were really true, how do we account for much higher rates of child pornography, child molestation, child and spousal abuse etc. etc. than other western nations? 301845[/snapback] Cincy doesn't take kindly to that kind of rational thought. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buftex Posted April 11, 2005 Share Posted April 11, 2005 Americans, with all our warts, are much more decent, respectful, and prize honor and integrity moreso than much of the rest of the world. It's that darn religious foundation the Founding Fathers spoke about, I guess. 301835[/snapback] Hmmm, pat yourself on the back all you want, I am sure someone could come up with many examples to the contrary. While I can't really fathom what went in Mexico, the Pope being boo'd in Scotland is not all that surprising, and not all that hard to understand...I am not saying I agree with it, but there is a very recent bloody history between the Catholics and Protestants in Ireland and Scotland. Our founding fathers implemented a seperation of church and state in our constiutution (I know, Republicans are doing their damndest to eliminate the seperation, but at least for now it still exists), it is not the same in those countries. Politics and religion go hand in hand in Scotalnd and Ireland. The Pope, in Scotland or Ireland, is as much a politcal figure, as he is a religious figure. Their disrespect of him would be no different than Americans lumping all Muslims in with the Taliban... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stuckincincy Posted April 11, 2005 Share Posted April 11, 2005 Perhaps our decency, honor and integrity is just on the surface Cincy. 'Cause if it were really true, how do we account for much higher rates of child pornography, child molestation, child and spousal abuse etc. etc. than other western nations? 301845[/snapback] I think it's not superficial. In the time when I grew up before divorce was so widespread, expositive and racy television, the denegration and ridicule of folk's religious beliefs, the adressing of people by their first names, the "It's All About ME" philosophy, things were mitigated. One met people socially, but did not publicly judge. Something that I ponder is - what WAS the level of spousal abuse, child molestation - before it became an issue? I won't stick my head in the sand and assume that that was not an occurance in older times. Certainly it was - horrible for centuries. But against that, it was a time where marriage and child rearing was taken quite more seriously. Families were very much involved in unions, and took pains to keep sonny and daughter from entering into a bad match. That fell by the wayside, of course. The fact that family men (men knowing something about other men) correctly identified crumbs that wanted to marry the women in the family got tossed aside, to the point that a brother who dare question his sister's choice is nowadays villified. The popular powers have attacked males to the point where they refuse to acknowledge problems young boys in school are having , but evidently buy into the thought that boys are inherently tough and not a concern and are not children in the same way girls are. No "Day at The Workplace" for boys.. The amount of attention and money spent on females and deferential legal protection expended and the excess of resources spent on female diseases even though that sex outlives the males by a good margin is problimatical to me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PTS Posted April 11, 2005 Share Posted April 11, 2005 I heard this on Jim Rome earlier today.....GLASGOW, Scotland -- Celtic advanced to the Scottish Cup final after beating Hearts 2-1. Craig Bellamy and Chris Sutton each scored a goal. Celtic, which won its 32nd Scottish Cup last season, will play Dundee United in the final May 28. Dundee United topped Hibernian 2-1 on Saturday. Hearts fans booed during a minute's silence for Pope John Paul II, who died last weekend, and referee Stuart Dougal was forced to end it early. Most Celtic supporters are Catholic. Nice going. Maybe they can unify with the soccer fans from Mexico who shouted "Osama" at the recent World Cup game in Mexico City versus the US. 301827[/snapback] Too bad the game wasn't between the Glasgow Celtic (Catholics) and Glasgow Rangers (Protestants) cause that disrespectful act would have led to sheer violence. I'm actually surprised the Celt fans didn't riot but then again they are probably saving their anger for when the Rangers come in town. It's the world's greatest sports rivalry, every game is treated like it were a war zone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pkwwjd Posted April 11, 2005 Share Posted April 11, 2005 Hmmm, pat yourself on the back all you want, I am sure someone could come up with many examples to the contrary. While I can't really fathom what went in Mexico, the Pope being boo'd in Scotland is not all that surprising, and not all that hard to understand...I am not saying I agree with it, but there is a very recent bloody history between the Catholics and Protestants in Ireland and Scotland. Our founding fathers implemented a seperation of church and state in our constiutution (I know, Republicans are doing their damndest to eliminate the seperation, but at least for now it still exists), it is not the same in those countries. Politics and religion go hand in hand in Scotalnd and Ireland. The Pope, in Scotland or Ireland, is as much a politcal figure, as he is a religious figure. Their disrespect of him would be no different than Americans lumping all Muslims in with the Taliban... 301867[/snapback] Don't start throwing around the "seperation of church and state in our constiutution" -- just don't go there. Whether or not you understand the original intent of that statement, it's foolish to go that direction. BTW, what part of the constitution contains the phrase "separation of church and state"? or anything of the like? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
philburger1 Posted April 11, 2005 Share Posted April 11, 2005 Good point - but I was just considering a comparison to other "Western" nations in which Christians are in the majority. 301859[/snapback] Fine, fine. I would argue two points: 1) we have a much larger population than most Western nation (Canada, France, England). So of course we will see more cases of abuse and such. 2) We are sue happy. Everybody wants a lawsuite. So when there is chance to make some money, you get a lot of people claiming some form of abuse, even when there is none. See Tawana Brawley. More cases show up in that stats. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Campy Posted April 11, 2005 Share Posted April 11, 2005 BTW, what part of the constitution contains the phrase "separation of church and state"? or anything of the like? 301895[/snapback] The phrases "right to privacy" and "right to a fair trial" aren't in the Constitution either, so I'm not sure I follow your point. Are you claiming that those are rights we shouldn't have because that exact verbiage isn't used? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BuffaloBorn1960 Posted April 11, 2005 Share Posted April 11, 2005 Good point - but I was just considering a comparison to other "Western" nations in which Christians are in the majority. 301859[/snapback] Ever been to Amsterdam? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tcali Posted April 11, 2005 Share Posted April 11, 2005 I heard this on Jim Rome earlier today.....GLASGOW, Scotland -- Celtic advanced to the Scottish Cup final after beating Hearts 2-1. Craig Bellamy and Chris Sutton each scored a goal. Celtic, which won its 32nd Scottish Cup last season, will play Dundee United in the final May 28. Dundee United topped Hibernian 2-1 on Saturday. Hearts fans booed during a minute's silence for Pope John Paul II, who died last weekend, and referee Stuart Dougal was forced to end it early. Most Celtic supporters are Catholic. Nice going. Maybe they can unify with the soccer fans from Mexico who shouted "Osama" at the recent World Cup game in Mexico City versus the US. 301827[/snapback] I dont think its that big a deal....Scotyland isa prtestant country...and I dont consider it a personal insult altho i am catholic--....Now when you act like those F-ing canadians and boo us during time of war-thats different.Ungrateful canadians--very sad. They get free protection and economic benefit from us---but they are OH SO politically superior.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Adams Posted April 11, 2005 Share Posted April 11, 2005 The amount of attention and money spent on females and deferential legal protection expended and the excess of resources spent on female diseases even though that sex outlives the males by a good margin is problimatical to me. 301883[/snapback] I only have a second to respond to this inane post. viagra propecia Thank you for your time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IDBillzFan Posted April 11, 2005 Share Posted April 11, 2005 You can kill your wife if she "ruins your honer". Or stone hem to death for having an affair.301855[/snapback] I know some guys whose wives deserve to be killed for ruining their husbands honer. QUOTE(aussiew @ Apr 11 2005, 12:39 PM)Perhaps our decency, honor and integrity is just on the surface Cincy. Not only is it on the surface, aussie, it's downright invisible to some. We can't, as a country, maintain any level of decency, honor or integrity for any length of time without getting selfish again and making it all go away. It's really too bad. If something like 9/11 couldn't elevate the best we have for more than a few months, I doubt anything else ever will. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jad1 Posted April 11, 2005 Share Posted April 11, 2005 Don't start throwing around the "seperation of church and state in our constiutution" -- just don't go there. Whether or not you understand the original intent of that statement, it's foolish to go that direction. BTW, what part of the constitution contains the phrase "separation of church and state"? or anything of the like? 301895[/snapback] Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances. — The First Amendment to the U.S. Constitution And for good measure, here's Article 11 from the Treaty with Tripoli in 1796, signed by President John Adams (a founding father) and ratified by the Senate (1797): "As the Government of the United States of America is not, in any sense, founded on the Christian religion; as it has in itself no character of enmity against the laws, religion, or tranquillity, of Mussulmen; and, as the said States never entered into any war, or act of hostility against any Mahometan nation, it is declared by the parties, that no pretext arising from religious opinions, shall ever produce an interruption of the harmony existing between the two countries." Sounds like separation of church and state to me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RunTheBall Posted April 11, 2005 Share Posted April 11, 2005 We are a country that above all else prides itself on individualism and the rights of the individual with a bit of moral hypocrisy to guide us. It's no surprise that along with that you are going to get a lot of selfish behavior. Captialism is a form of economic natural selection, there are going to be those in the herd who get eaten. Decency, honor, and integrity are fine values to follow, unless they get in the way of the bottom line of course. Those who can, do. Those who can't, sue. RTB Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buftex Posted April 12, 2005 Share Posted April 12, 2005 Don't start throwing around the "seperation of church and state in our constiutution" -- just don't go there. Whether or not you understand the original intent of that statement, it's foolish to go that direction. BTW, what part of the constitution contains the phrase "separation of church and state"? or anything of the like? 301895[/snapback] You mean, don't throw it around, because you can't argue it? What's your point? Are you saying that the constitution doen't call for this? You may be listening to too much Hannity and Limbaugh. Read Jad1's post. He (she?) beat me to posting it. Have you read the constitution? That is the "anything of the like" you were asking for. Sorry that the forefathers didn't use that exact phrase. Jeez, some people are so literal! I wasn't justifying booing the Pope during the match, just explaining, IMO, why it shouldn't be all that surprising that it happened. Whether or not you understood my post, it is foolish to go that direction! In the spirit of the old TSW, "bite me"! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Campy Posted April 12, 2005 Share Posted April 12, 2005 I heard this on Jim Rome earlier today.....GLASGOW, Scotland -- Celtic advanced to the Scottish Cup final after beating Hearts 2-1. Craig Bellamy and Chris Sutton each scored a goal. Celtic, which won its 32nd Scottish Cup last season, will play Dundee United in the final May 28. Dundee United topped Hibernian 2-1 on Saturday. Hearts fans booed during a minute's silence for Pope John Paul II, who died last weekend, and referee Stuart Dougal was forced to end it early. Most Celtic supporters are Catholic. Nice going. Maybe they can unify with the soccer fans from Mexico who shouted "Osama" at the recent World Cup game in Mexico City versus the US. 301827[/snapback] Back to the orignal topic of this thread... Being of Scottish descent, and being the only Waller that I'm aware of to use the Ancient Scots language below his avatar, I feel somewhat obliged to chime in. Like the great majority of Scots, I'm not Roman catholic. But booing during a moment of silence to honor a man of peace, regardless of his (perceived) faults, seems fairly crass to me. As a desendant of their descendants, I'm more than a little embarassed by my brother Scots' 'behaviour.' It's shameful. Based upon my experience, that unfortunate event isn't the least bit indicative of the great majority of Scots. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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