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Who could we realistically trade Zay or Shady for?

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Well we can't trade Zay now that Foster is about to lose a foot.

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Posted (edited)
3 hours ago, JoshAllenHasBigHands said:

 

He is a # 2 WR, ranked as an average #2 WR (in yards) and an above average #2 WR (in touchdowns). Sure, an upgrade would be awesome, but lets not pretend he is a garbage WR. 

 

That fact that your "eyes" can't pick up evidence borne out in statistics is why you should probably be a little more skeptical of your own opinions. 

I'll tell you what. If watched enough of this game for long enough and seen enough players come and go that I think I can spot a JAG when I see one and Zay Jones is a JAG. 

 

When he drops a big ball in December and costs them a game come pump his tires then.

 

Statistics.  Yup. That's the definitive answer.  A guy has decent WR2 numbers in Fantasy, lets keep him.

 

Here are some stats from 2 receivers in the same year.  You tell me, based on this, which one was a better player.

 

WR1: 57 receptions, 752 yards, 5TDs

WR2: 56 receptions, 765 yards, 4TDs

Edited by That's No Moon

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I think I am about there on seeing what we can get for Zay Jones....would rather trade him for a later round pick then cut him for nothing.

 

Duke actually catches the ball

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3 hours ago, JoshAllenHasBigHands said:

 

Its just a lack of critical thinking. Its easier to rely on the narrative than think for yourself. 

He does not make big catches.....I wish he did

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5 minutes ago, John from Riverside said:

He does not make big catches.....I wish he did

Had a good fantasy day on this day.  Dropped an important pass at the end. 

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58 minutes ago, That's No Moon said:

I'll tell you what. If watched enough of this game for long enough and seen enough players come and go that I think I can spot a JAG when I see one and Zay Jones is a JAG. 

 

When he drops a big ball in December and costs them a game come pump his tires then.

 

Statistics.  Yup. That's the definitive answer.  A guy has decent WR2 numbers in Fantasy, lets keep him.

 

Here are some stats from 2 receivers in the same year.  You tell me, based on this, which one was a better player.

 

WR1: 57 receptions, 752 yards, 5TDs

WR2: 56 receptions, 765 yards, 4TDs

I honestly don’t know, but I’m not talking about stats generally; I’m citing one specific stat—drops. He does not drop the ball the way it is represented on this board.

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Posted (edited)
19 minutes ago, JoshAllenHasBigHands said:

I honestly don’t know, but I’m not talking about stats generally; I’m citing one specific stat—drops. He does not drop the ball the way it is represented on this board.

You don't want to play now?  These guys both played on the same team.  They both had the same QB all year.  They were both in their 3rd year.  Which one was a better player?

 

Or is what you're saying that you can't tell the difference between them just based on that and you would need some additional information, like maybe watching them play?

 

I'll bail you out.  The year was 1987

 

Wr1 is Andre Reed a HoF player

Wr2 is Chris Burkett a JAG who was cut less than 2 seasons later.

Edited by That's No Moon
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9 hours ago, dollars 2 donuts said:

I know that this is just a hypothetical question at this point and, OK, I am game, a 5th for Zay and a 4th for Shady.  HERE we don't think highly of Zay and I am not saying they should anywhere else, but on a terrible team last year he caught 61 passes and 7 TDs so thta should mean something to someone if they need receiver help.

 

That sad I have still been stunned by the perception of this fan base concerning Shady.

 

I don't think he has really lost a step and I think last year's Oline, especially for the running game, was bad beyond the mere stats that analysts give us.  I believe it was one of if not the worst line in franchise history.  He is a workout machine, takes care of himself, is not THAT old and is committed, especially in a free agency year.

 

I believe Shady is the number one back on this team and I believe he is going to rush for the most yards and depending upon how things unfold I believe he is capable of a thousand yard season, if not more.

 

I hope I am right, because it can only benefit this team this year if I am. 

I hope you are right.  But I think it is more likely we lose a game or two because Shady is a weak starter before McD accepts the truth. He is this years peterman. 

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8 minutes ago, That's No Moon said:

You don't want to play now?  These guys both played on the same team.  They both had the same QB all year.  They were both in their 3rd year.  Which one was a better player?

 

Or is what you're saying that you can't tell the difference between them just based on that and you would need some additional information, like maybe watching them play?

 

I'll bail you out.  The year was 1987

 

Wr1 is Andre Reed a HoF player

Wr2 is Chris Burkett a JAG who was cut less than 2 seasons later.

Ohhhhh i see your point. That’s fair. I honestly do not know the trajectory of their careers. I’m sure there is some glaring context you are leaving out, but I’ll give it to you. All I’m saying is that if you think zay can’t play because of the drops, which was your original point, you are objectively and demonstrably wrong.

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Just now, JoshAllenHasBigHands said:

Ohhhhh i see your point. That’s fair. I honestly do not know the trajectory of their careers. I’m sure there is some glaring context you are leaving out, but I’ll give it to you. All I’m saying is that if you think zay can’t play because of the drops, which was your original point, you are objectively and demonstrably wrong.

No, I'm not, but thanks for playing.

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2 minutes ago, That's No Moon said:

No, I'm not, but thanks for playing.

Naturally there was the exact amount of context missing from that Burkett story as I thought there would be. The fact that you were that misleading with your blind stat challenge tells me everything I need to know about you. Because, apparently, you have this magical eye that allows you to see drops not seen my any other statistician or pro sports analyst. 

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Just now, JoshAllenHasBigHands said:

Naturally there was the exact amount of context missing from that Burkett story as I thought there would be. The fact that you were that misleading with your blind stat challenge tells me everything I need to know about you. Because, apparently, you have this magical eye that allows you to see drops not seen my any other statistician or pro sports analyst. 

Kay, so he got credited with how many last year? 3?  Watch this and see how many you see.  I see at least 6 and these are just Allen throws, not Anderson or Barkley.  There are a couple I didn't count because I didn't think they were drops but "drop" is a subjective stat.  Just because a catch is difficult doesn't mean an NFL receiver shouldn't catch the ball.

 

 

16 minutes ago, JoshAllenHasBigHands said:

Naturally there was the exact amount of context missing from that Burkett story as I thought there would be. The fact that you were that misleading with your blind stat challenge tells me everything I need to know about you. Because, apparently, you have this magical eye that allows you to see drops not seen my any other statistician or pro sports analyst. 

and what precisely was misleading about the stats I gave you?  That was the point!  You, quite snarkily, came after me about the eye test and quoted stats so I proved to you how stats don't tell the whole story.  The fact that you feel mislead by that just proves my point.  

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Posted (edited)
8 minutes ago, That's No Moon said:

Kay, so he got credited with how many last year? 3?  Watch this and see how many you see.  I see at least 6 and these are just Allen throws, not Anderson or Barkley.  There are a couple I didn't count because I didn't think they were drops but "drop" is a subjective stat.  Just because a catch is difficult doesn't mean an NFL receiver shouldn't catch the ball.

 

 

The official number is 5. It’s the same standard as every other nfl WR in the league. Like they say, facts don’t care about your feelings. You may feel it’s a drop, but by the standard applied to every player in the league, it is not.

 

Im dying over the fact that you thought this video proves your point. This is fantastic. 

Edited by JoshAllenHasBigHands
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6 minutes ago, JoshAllenHasBigHands said:

Im dying over the fact that you thought this video proves your point. This is fantastic. 

Yeah, I'm not going to go through every snap and build you a video montage of all of his targets.  You're welcome to do that though.  Have a good time.

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Just now, That's No Moon said:

Yeah, I'm not going to go through every snap and build you a video montage of all of his targets.  You're welcome to do that though.  Have a good time.

See, this is a basic perception problem. He had drops, you are right. Point is everyone has drops; he did not have an above average number of drops. And that video you posted, while it certainly shows some drops (but others that are on the verge of completely u catchable) does nothing to prove he had more drops than any other receiver. 

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41 minutes ago, PlayoffsPlease said:

I hope you are right.  But I think it is more likely we lose a game or two because Shady is a weak starter before McD accepts the truth. He is this years peterman. 

Shouldn't Singletary be ready to play a major role? We took a RB in the 3rd round. What's the deal with him?

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4 hours ago, Big C said:

Well we can't trade Zay now that Foster is about to lose a foot.

 

I hate to be negative, but I fear his spleen may be at risk as well.   😳

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2 hours ago, Augie said:

 

I hate to be negative, but I fear his spleen may be at risk as well.   😳

 

Look at this picture of Foster at his house this morning! I don't think he is ever setting foot (boom! roasted) on a field again!

 

b361cad02bd95000905bb833d891c48a.jpg

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4 hours ago, John from Riverside said:

I think I am about there on seeing what we can get for Zay Jones....would rather trade him for a later round pick then cut him for nothing.

 

Duke actually catches the ball

 

For you to be down on a receiver is worrisome! 

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I do not understand how this is still a topic being bantered about. Why anybody wouldn't want Shady on this team this year is absolutely beyond me. Zay I can understand, but personally I do want him to have one more season to prove it or not. Both of these guys will be important pieces of the team this year. If you want to talk about trading or releasing or not resigning them next year, sure. But for this year, there is no question that they are more valuable on the team than off. Neither player has any significant trade value at the moment. So why give up good players for, what a conditional 6th or 7th round pick. I do not see how that helps the team. Do some of you guys not want to win this year? Sure, Zay may never become more than an average #2 WR, but after Brown and Beasley, who on the team is better right now? Singletary may or may not be ready to go as a rookie all year, Gore could finally hit the wall. We've had too many seasons where having no depth has killed us. We finally have some real depth at a number of positions and people want to deplete that for a low round draft pick? I just do not understand the logic.

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Who could we realistically trade Zay or Shady for?

yo’ mamma. Realistically..

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1 hour ago, Chandler#81 said:

Who could we realistically trade Zay or Shady for?

yo’ mamma. Realistically..

 

....my apology....I used up all of my suggestions in the other 183 "trade Zay.....trade Shady" threads...........BTW, how is Tasker as a broadcaster?................

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8 hours ago, auburnbillsbacker said:

I could see Jones getting picked up by the Patriots then becoming a star.

Like Robert Woods with the Rams.  Zay Jones doubled his yards and tripled his touchdowns last year compared to his rookie year.  The bubble players at WR aren't as good as Jones.  He's staying at least another year.  Like it or not.

 

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