transplantbillsfan Posted November 21, 2019 Share Posted November 21, 2019 5 minutes ago, Deranged Rhino said: None can beat Trump. Not a single one. But keep carrying that torch The beautiful thing is that you have your money where your mouth is, so to speak. So I appreciate that these aren't just empty words. We find out which of us was wrong in less than a year 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deranged Rhino Posted November 21, 2019 Share Posted November 21, 2019 (edited) 4 minutes ago, transplantbillsfan said: The beautiful thing is that you have your money where your mouth is, so to speak. So I appreciate that these aren't just empty words. We find out which of us was wrong in less than a year I'm just curious what changed with you and Biden. You were SO on his team... now you're on Mayor Pete's team. Is that because you realize I was right months ago when I told you supporting Biden was a waste of time because he's unelectable? I wonder whose team you'll be on in another three months when Pete's campaign is a smoldering wreck after SC. Edited November 21, 2019 by Deranged Rhino Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RochesterRob Posted November 21, 2019 Share Posted November 21, 2019 7 minutes ago, transplantbillsfan said: Medicare for All seems it's largely on the outs. Even though it's still a central aspect of Warren's and Sander's candidacy, you noticed even they are now hesitant to push any quick, revolutionary change. I don't want Medicare for All, anyway, but that was at least promising from them. Warren explained her wealth tax, which is at least interesting enough and her explanation for it was pretty solid. Booker's response to her tax proposals was likely even better. Biden stressed that it's the Attorney General, not the President who determines something like pursuing charges of Trump. That's a far cry from Trump, who basically uses Barr as a puppet for his own political whims. Also the decriminalization of Mary Jane along with expunging and reversing any previous convictions (wasn't baked last night @Teddy KGB though I appreciate the concern) Pete's discussion of the farmer subsidies in the trade war was interesting and substantive, though Maddow stupidly cut him off. The entire conversation about voter suppression, voter turnout, and making sure everyone is able to vote is very important in a country with such low voter turnout compared to much of the Western world. The general civility towards each other (with a few notable exceptions often involving Gabbard) was refreshing, especially when Klobuchar was given a home run opportunity to slam Mayor Pete, but refused to. Kamala Harris did the same thing once in a similar situation with him. Any emphasis on our efforts to slow/reverse Climate change is always a positive discussion regarding the future. That's what I got off the top of my head What did Pete attempt to say about farm subsidies? Quite a few politicians campaign against them but when they get to Washington reality hits them in the face. Subsidies = cheap food = political stability. Not since the 1930's was it about helping farmers and I have my doubts for the Great Depression era. There was a real concern over radical elements undermining the government and food in the belly reduces the likely hood of that happening. Don't care about civility in a debate. I just don't want to hear emotionally charged nonsense to prevent a real discussion on issues. Did not bother me that Bush called Reagan's economic policy voodoo economics back in 1980. Say what you need to say and I'll decide if it has merit or not. Don't mind discussing the Earth's climate but feel that we have only scratched the surface in terms of data and analysis. If I were handing out grades most studies would receive an incomplete. Question to libs is if the environment is so important then why do I see trash along the street in the better areas of WNY where Dems are known to hold sway? Too much waste of food. Thermostat set at 78 in December with the wife wearing barely there clothing. Leadership in this area by Dems is problematic at best. Good that you kept orange man discussion to a minimum so other topics could shine through. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
transplantbillsfan Posted November 21, 2019 Share Posted November 21, 2019 1 minute ago, Deranged Rhino said: But Biden was your boy! Now Pete is? Pete has no African American support. He can't win. He'd be a disaster if he's the nominee. No. No. No. You've completely misunderstood my feelings about Biden. Biden was never my personally favorite candidate--and I've said that a number of times--just the candidate I thought was most likely out of this pack for a number of reasons, including being the "safest" choice and therefore most likely to beat Trump. My personal feelings on who the best candidates haven't ever had Biden even in the top 3. Mayor Pete and Booker were always up there with Harris and Klobuchar flip-flopping in there, though I've had Amy above Harris for a while now. Biden is probably my 5th favorite candidate, followed by Tulsi, Steyer, Yang, Bernie, then Warren. I've been pretty consistent with those feelings. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snafu Posted November 21, 2019 Share Posted November 21, 2019 12 hours ago, transplantbillsfan said: Although I now understand that this forum needs to be renamed--it's a far cry from the open minded inviting conversations acknowledging both sides and parties it claims to be... this place is strictly red and conservative and anyone blue and progressive is belittled and ignored. Pretty obvious (1) I disagree. (2) Can you legitimately point me to a fair and open minded political discussion forum where people are polite to opposing points of view? I'd check it out. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
transplantbillsfan Posted November 21, 2019 Share Posted November 21, 2019 8 minutes ago, Deranged Rhino said: I'm just curious what changed with you and Biden. You were SO on his team... now you're on Mayor Pete's team. Is that because you realize I was right months ago when I told you supporting Biden was a waste of time because he's unelectable? I wonder whose team you'll be on in another three months when Pete's campaign is a smoldering wreck after SC. See my previous post. I can compartmentalize my own personal feelings about the candidates from those who I think are most likely, and I have always and still do think Biden was/is the most likely Democratic candidate. 3 minutes ago, snafu said: (1) I disagree. (2) Can you legitimately point me to a fair and open minded political discussion forum where people are polite to opposing points of view? I'd check it out. 1) I disagree with your disagreement 2) This is the ONLY political forum I've EVER gone into, so no. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
row_33 Posted November 21, 2019 Share Posted November 21, 2019 4 minutes ago, snafu said: (1) I disagree. (2) Can you legitimately point me to a fair and open minded political discussion forum where people are polite to opposing points of view? I'd check it out. so do you think that liberals honestly believe they are fair and balanced in their minds and life? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deranged Rhino Posted November 21, 2019 Share Posted November 21, 2019 5 minutes ago, transplantbillsfan said: No. No. No. You've completely misunderstood my feelings about Biden. Umm... Fine, we can separate your personal picks from your predictions, that's fine. But: On 8/20/2019 at 12:09 PM, transplantbillsfan said: I really wonder at what point posters like @Deranged Rhino are going to acknowledge they were wrong about Biden and that he is, in fact, the most likely Democratic candidate... (and thus, our most likely next President ) You railed, for months, that he was going to win. Now, you admit he's the 5th most likely in your own rankings to even get the nom... Sounds like you've shifted your opinion closer to what I began our discussion with: Biden is unelectable. He has ZERO chance to win. Certainly not the "most likely next president". Clearly you no longer believe that, right? Biden is NOT the most likely next president... or are you still on that train? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TakeYouToTasker Posted November 21, 2019 Share Posted November 21, 2019 (edited) 1 hour ago, transplantbillsfan said: The entire conversation about voter suppression, voter turnout, and making sure everyone is able to vote is very important in a country with such low voter turnout compared to much of the Western world. Why do you think it’s better if more people participate? The entire act of voting is an exercise in designed futility, and is anti-freedom, based on the priori assumption that society is best served when there is an elite ruling class, and a peasantry requiring a heavy handed ruler to tell them what they must do. In the United States this is worsened with the reality of a binary false choice argument; which is actually nothing more than a curtain hiding the true machinations of the power elite. None of this can be fixed by the franchise. Further, what are the merits of encouraging low IQ voting? Of encouraging the ill informed or the disinterested to participate? Edited November 21, 2019 by TakeYouToTasker 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
transplantbillsfan Posted November 21, 2019 Share Posted November 21, 2019 (edited) 1 hour ago, Deranged Rhino said: Umm... Fine, we can separate your personal picks from your predictions, that's fine. But: You railed, for months, that he was going to win. Now, you admit he's the 5th most likely in your own rankings to even get the nom... Sounds like you've shifted your opinion closer to what I began our discussion with: Biden is unelectable. He has ZERO chance to win. Certainly not the "most likely next president". Clearly you no longer believe that, right? Biden is NOT the most likely next president... or are you still on that train? Yes I'm still on that train. No he's not my favorite candidate and never was. My rankings are who I like the best as the democratic nominee, not who I THINK will win. That's the context with which I've always talked about Biden. Make sense? Edited November 21, 2019 by transplantbillsfan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
row_33 Posted November 21, 2019 Share Posted November 21, 2019 46 minutes ago, TakeYouToTasker said: Why do you think it’s better if more people participate? The entire act of voting is an exercise in designed futility, and is anti-freedom, based on the priori assumption that society is best served when there is an elite ruling class, and a peasantry requiring a heavy handed ruler to tell them what they must do. In the United States this is worsened with the reality of a binary false choice argument; which is actually nothing more than a curtain hiding the true machinations of the power elite. None of this can be fixed by the franchise. Further, what are the merits of encouraging low IQ voting? Of encouraging the ill informed or the disinterested to participate? choosing to refuse to vote is a legit option, if you feel there is nothing to be gained by voting, or that it really doesn't matter, that is legit i give it 20 minutes to stand in line for provincial and federal elections, my vote doesn't matter anyways because the conservatives get 5% at most in any election and it's first-past-the-post for seats Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deranged Rhino Posted November 21, 2019 Share Posted November 21, 2019 24 minutes ago, transplantbillsfan said: Yes I'm still on that train. No he's not my favorite candidate and never was. My rankings are who I like the best as the democratic nominee, not who I THINK will win. That's the context with which I've always talked about Biden. Make sense? It makes sense that your personal preferences differ from who you think will win. I'm really not trying to be difficult or argue that point. I just wanted to nail you down a bit on which is which. And what I take from this is that you still believe Biden is the clear front runner... and the likely winner. Good luck with that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
row_33 Posted November 21, 2019 Share Posted November 21, 2019 take it easy, would YOU like to have to commit to one of these turkeys in the running for the Dem nod? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
transplantbillsfan Posted November 21, 2019 Share Posted November 21, 2019 25 minutes ago, Deranged Rhino said: It makes sense that your personal preferences differ from who you think will win. I'm really not trying to be difficult or argue that point. I just wanted to nail you down a bit on which is which. And what I take from this is that you still believe Biden is the clear front runner... and the likely winner. Good luck with that. Yes my personal preferences differ from who I think will win. Buttigueg and Klobuchar are my two FAVORITE candidates. However, I don't think either will win the nomination, though I'll be extremely happy if they do. And yes, I still believe Biden is the clear front-runner, likely winner of the Democratic nomination and next US President starting January 2021. Don't wish me luck... you don't want me to win this bet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deranged Rhino Posted November 21, 2019 Share Posted November 21, 2019 Just now, transplantbillsfan said: Don't wish me luck... you don't want me to win this bet. You misunderstand me and my position I think. I have nothing against you -- even if we disagree on surface level political matters (which in this environment are easy enough to inflate into something more than they really are). I didn't vote for Trump in 2016. If he doesn't win in 2020 it won't impact me in the slightest (other than honoring our bet, of course). My loyalty isn't to Trump or one party. It's to truth, in whatever form I can get it. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldTimeAFLGuy Posted November 21, 2019 Share Posted November 21, 2019 2 hours ago, transplantbillsfan said: See my previous post. I can compartmentalize my own personal feelings about the candidates from those who I think are most likely, and I have always and still do think Biden was/is the most likely Democratic candidate. 1) I disagree with your disagreement 2) This is the ONLY political forum I've EVER gone into, so no. ...no hard feelings, ok?......... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jrober38 Posted November 22, 2019 Share Posted November 22, 2019 3 hours ago, transplantbillsfan said: Yes my personal preferences differ from who I think will win. Buttigueg and Klobuchar are my two FAVORITE candidates. However, I don't think either will win the nomination, though I'll be extremely happy if they do. And yes, I still believe Biden is the clear front-runner, likely winner of the Democratic nomination and next US President starting January 2021. Don't wish me luck... you don't want me to win this bet. I think the Dems ultimately have to go with one of the more radical candidates like Sanders or Warren in an attempt to inspire their base. I think common sense would indicate that they should run someone more centre, but I don't think that's a winning strategy. I don't think it turns out the vote for them and I don't think they can actually expect any right leaning independents to ever vote for them in the current political environment. I agree with you regarding who are probably the best options, but I don't think either wins a general election because I don't think either turns out the Democrat base in the numbers they'll need to flip the key swing states. They really need the field to start shrinking to a more reasonable size. Anyone polling under 2% at this point should be conceding defeat and throwing their weight behind someone else. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Teddy KGB Posted November 22, 2019 Share Posted November 22, 2019 16 minutes ago, jrober38 said: I think the Dems ultimately have to go with one of the more radical candidates like Sanders or Warren in an attempt to inspire their base. Are you speaking about yourself ? The kooks are ready to vote RADICAL !!!! Pete and Gabbard seem less cringy then the Warren/Biden/Bernie/Kamala’s of the world. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jrober38 Posted November 22, 2019 Share Posted November 22, 2019 (edited) 3 minutes ago, Teddy KGB said: Are you speaking about yourself ? The kooks are ready to vote RADICAL !!!! Pete and Gabbard seem less cringy then the Warren/Biden/Bernie/Kamala’s of the world. Yeah. Just giving my own thoughts. I don't think they're necessarily "kooks". Most of their policies are successfully being practised in developed countries around the world. With that said they're all too radical for America, which is an extremely conservative country. Pete seems like the guy who is going to emerge from the centre left lane (Biden seems finished due to excessive baggage). He's well funded and his campaign seems to be run pretty well. He could emerge as the democratic candidate. As Warren and Sanders have released more details on their plans they seem to have opened themselves up to more criticism. Edited November 22, 2019 by jrober38 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nanker Posted November 23, 2019 Share Posted November 23, 2019 On 11/21/2019 at 7:06 AM, Foxx said: Biden's strongest debate? heaven help us https://twitter.com/chrisjdmartin/status/1197372400872099840 https://twitter.com/TCPigott/status/1197363315678294017 seems the CNN pundits didn't think as highly of Biden's performance either. https://twitter.com/TCPigott/status/1197374852484796421 your national propaganda machine didn't think much of your boy, Pete either. https://twitter.com/SteveGuest/status/1197377097980956672 the Dems, between what they are doing with their ever incessant #orangemanbad iterations and their horror, ***** show of potential leaders they are putting forward, are going to have everything they can do just to prevent their extinction in the coming years. I’m shocked, SHOCKED do I say that Mayor Pete’s unity message of, “Can I tell you about my husband?” Didn’t resonate more with the voters of middle America. huh. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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