Delete This Account Posted March 1, 2019 Share Posted March 1, 2019 I'm absolutely shocked this is only a 7-page thread. C'mon, folks, you can do a lot better in the over-reaction, hand-wringing department. jw 2 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Straight Hucklebuck Posted March 1, 2019 Share Posted March 1, 2019 (edited) 2 hours ago, dubs said: Just to set some standards for consistency sake, a few questions: 1) how many years grace period does a team have from their last “playoff win”? 2) is playoff win the best indicator of success or failure in your view, or are there other, better metrics? 3) Do current owners/front offices/coaching/players own the history of the team before they arrived? 1) Well in the Bills case, there is more leniency than normal because they have not had a Franchise QB since 1996. For instance, the failure of Buddy Nix/Chan Gailey was in large part due to sticking with Dick Jauron's failed Quarterbacks for the entire duration of their tenure in Buffalo (along with flip-flopping on defensive scheme). I am happy that Beane/McDermott elected to not stick with someone else's backup QB (Tyrod Taylor) and to try to legitimately find a QB. I think the answer to your question is 2 years. Otherwise, losing for 3 straight years generally increases the pressure on a Coach immensely, to where its win now, or you get fired. And when you get fired, it bakes in to more years of "new scheme" excuses and prolongs the losing. I get that you don't want to change Coaches every 2-3 years, and I agree. That's why instead of the 5-day search the Bills did in Arizona when they hired Doug Marrone, you conduct a more thorough interview process in which 8-10 guys are considered. As we've seen, with the Bills, two years is more than enough time to turn over the roster, with only 4-5 guys total left over from the Whaley era. So the "we inherited a bad team" excuse really only holds weight for 1-2 years. Draft difference makers. You are paid to know more than the fans. What great GM or Coach or QB have we let go in the last 20 years that went on to really burn us? Maybe the Negative Nancy's knew what they were talking about, because nobody has really made us eat our words with Playoff wins. Speaking of which... 2) Winning in the Playoffs is the only measure of success in Professional Sports. In Buffalo, we've been racking up the moral victories for years. 3) No, they don't. But that doesn't matter. As soon as they get hired, the clock starts on finding a QB if you don't have one (see all the failures in Cleveland until Dorsey drafted Mayfield), and if they don't recognize that, the regime will never get off the ground. Additionally, I want to see talented players coming in the door via the Draft or Free Agency. If you want to win with culture and lunchpail guys, then you have to demonstrate to me how that meaningfully differentiates your team from the rest of the league. If your plan is to out-culture the league, then results should be expected after 2-3 years. In McDermott's case, the time-frame is now because they chose to trade young talent, and have mostly failed in adding legitimate skill positions to the team. 2 hours ago, oldmanfan said: You are the one who misquoted Joe B, and when shown that you ignore it because it doesn't fit your negative agenda. And I am so tired of your crap about people lowering the bar. It's crap, pure unadulterated crap. What did I say just this morning? That Beane and McD have the picks they want, the cap space they want, the QB and MLB they wanted, and now it is up to them. And if they don't succeed they'll be looking for jobs, AS IT SHOULD BE. I capitalize not to yell but provide emphasis, because you yet again apparently show a predilection to ignoring those things that don't fit your agenda. Two year ago they were in the playoffs, last year they got tools they felt they needed and dumped guys for cap space. That was their plan, they executed it, and now the pressure is on to continue executing their plan. That is not a free pass, that is not lowering the bar. That is how it is, not only with the Bills but pretty much any other professional sports enterprise you care to name. Your stuff is nonsense. All here know these guys have to succeed or they won't have jobs down the line. And I suspect no one knows that more than Beane and McDermott. Misquoted Joe B? I went to WKBW and this was the article that was up: https://www.wkbw.com/sports/bills/joe-b-5-takeaways-from-buffalo-bills-hc-sean-mcdermott-at-the-nfl-combine The quote is directly from the article, I didn't alter anything. I copied and pasted, and I listened to McDermott's conference. (By the way, Bangarang on Page 3 pasted the exact same quote sequence) .... I've said the same thing as you in regards to 2019. They have no excuses for all the reasons you listed, so you and I agree. Edited March 1, 2019 by Straight Hucklebuck Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nihilarian Posted March 1, 2019 Share Posted March 1, 2019 On 2/28/2019 at 7:49 AM, YoloinOhio said: Smokescreen! 10 defensive draft picks coming right up including a Corner at 9! We will see on draft day! If this is a smokescreen or if McD is genuinely interested in building a decent offense. The Bills do need an edge pass rusher, pass rushing, penetrating DT. They also need an offensive line and star WR, TE. Sooo they also need to protect that QB they moved up to draft #7 last year and some receivers, some O linemen. We'll see. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MPT Posted March 1, 2019 Share Posted March 1, 2019 2 hours ago, vorpma said: Can't even respond, I have watched it posted on TBD quite often over the last year by many providing the negative posts on this topic. As one post stated, many members of TBD will never be happy with anything this organization does! "Can't even respond." Then don't. I'll make it very simple for you: you can't show me a "fire the coach" post in this thread because it doesn't exist. You'd be hard-pressed to find one in the entire message board. Just because someone disagrees with something the coach says does not mean they're never happy or that they want the coach fired. Un-wad your panties and make an actual argument if you disagree. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Straight Hucklebuck Posted March 1, 2019 Share Posted March 1, 2019 4 hours ago, vorpma said: Great post; some adult input! Oldmanfan comes through again; great post! I swear many who post on TBD really know little about football, it is a passing fancy much like following trending entertainment. Then there is the "temper tantrum" approach - I want it and I want it now, give it to me, and if I don't get I throw a temper tantrum. Fire everyone now! What are your "know football" credentials? And if you can produce them, then please educate everyone who "know little" on when the Bills will start winning in the Playoffs again? If I can't ask that question because I don't know football, then by all means, go ahead and enlighten everyone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Delete This Account Posted March 1, 2019 Share Posted March 1, 2019 44 minutes ago, MPT said: "Can't even respond." Then don't. I'll make it very simple for you: you can't show me a "fire the coach" post in this thread because it doesn't exist. You'd be hard-pressed to find one in the entire message board. Just because someone disagrees with something the coach says does not mean they're never happy or that they want the coach fired. Un-wad your panties and make an actual argument if you disagree. Disagreeing? This isn't disagreeing with what the coach said. This is bringing out the pitchforks and torches by parsing something McDermott essentially said in passing. Holy bejeez. He said he'd like the Bills to score at least 21 points a game. So damn him because he didn't 42 or 487 for that matter. Chill. This wasn't some Sermon From the Mount or a State of the Union address in which every word must be parsed and interpreted and then taken as pure and unadulterated Gospel. And it's ... checks calendar ... March 1 for cripes sake not Week 8. jw But please, proceed. I'm here for the over-reaction. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vorpma Posted March 1, 2019 Share Posted March 1, 2019 26 minutes ago, john wawrow said: Disagreeing? This isn't disagreeing with what the coach said. This is bringing out the pitchforks and torches by parsing something McDermott essentially said in passing. Holy bejeez. He said he'd like the Bills to score at least 21 points a game. So damn him because he didn't 42 or 487 for that matter. Chill. This wasn't some Sermon From the Mount or a State of the Union address in which every word must be parsed and interpreted and then taken as pure and unadulterated Gospel. And it's ... checks calendar ... March 1 for cripes sake not Week 8. jw But please, proceed. I'm here for the over-reaction. My response; John captures it very accurately! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MPT Posted March 1, 2019 Share Posted March 1, 2019 11 minutes ago, john wawrow said: Disagreeing? This isn't disagreeing with what the coach said. This is bringing out the pitchforks and torches by parsing something McDermott essentially said in passing. Holy bejeez. He said he'd like the Bills to score at least 21 points a game. So damn him because he didn't 42 or 487 for that matter. Chill. This wasn't some Sermon From the Mount or a State of the Union address in which every word must be parsed and interpreted and then taken as pure and unadulterated Gospel. And it's ... checks calendar ... March 1 for cripes sake not Week 8. jw But please, proceed. I'm here for the over-reaction. Yikes. Overreaction indeed. How is it that some some people can disagree with one thing the coach said and all of a sudden they're a Bills-hating pitchfork mob? Someone clearly thought it was an important enough topic to make a thread about, so why not debate it? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vorpma Posted March 1, 2019 Share Posted March 1, 2019 1 hour ago, Straight Hucklebuck said: What are your "know football" credentials? And if you can produce them, then please educate everyone who "know little" on when the Bills will start winning in the Playoffs again? If I can't ask that question because I don't know football, then by all means, go ahead and enlighten everyone. Reference response to John Wawrow! Enough said on this topic! Just now, MPT said: Yikes. Overreaction indeed. How is it that some some people can disagree with one thing the coach said and all of a sudden they're a Bills-hating pitchfork mob? Someone clearly thought it was an important enough topic to make a thread about, so why not debate it? No, sorry it's not disagreeing - it's attacking over some really silly stuff - haplessbillsfan I refrained from profanity - I am turning the corner! Quite frankly, the initial post is silly! 3 minutes ago, vorpma said: Reference response to John Wawrow! Enough said on this topic! No, sorry it's not disagreeing - it's attacking over some really silly stuff - haplessbillsfan I refrained from profanity - I am turning the corner! Quite frankly, the initial post is silly! Wow, I purge the quite frankly, the initial post ..... the follow on post were silly! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Delete This Account Posted March 1, 2019 Share Posted March 1, 2019 (edited) 1 hour ago, MPT said: Yikes. Overreaction indeed. How is it that some some people can disagree with one thing the coach said and all of a sudden they're a Bills-hating pitchfork mob? Someone clearly thought it was an important enough topic to make a thread about, so why not debate it? Woah, it's a thread. good golly, then it must be important. how about simply ignoring it. rather than pounding this dead horse into the ground, pouring oil on it, and lighting it on fire, and then adding a handgrenade or two just to make sure every atom of the creature has been obliterated from the face of the earth. or flying to your computer with arms waving, squealing breathlessly awaiting to submit a hot take about something essentially meaningless. My Gawd! He, he, he, he said 21 points! jw we at 10 pages yet? can't wait. Edited March 1, 2019 by john wawrow 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CookieG Posted March 1, 2019 Share Posted March 1, 2019 1 hour ago, john wawrow said: This wasn't some Sermon From the Mount or a State of the Union address in which every word must be parsed and interpreted and then taken as pure and unadulterated Gospel. Blessed are the meek in offense, for they shall receive high draft picks; Blessed are the poor in blocking men, for they have refrained from being bullies; Blessed are those who score few points, for they shall be known as also-rans. The "Four score and seven years ago, we were a contender" speech comes around training camp. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vorpma Posted March 1, 2019 Share Posted March 1, 2019 3 minutes ago, CookieG said: Blessed are the meek in offense, for they shall receive high draft picks; Blessed are the poor in blocking men, for they have refrained from being bullies; Blessed are those who score few points, for they shall be known as also-rans. The "Four score and seven years ago, we were a contender" speech comes around training camp. Ya, whatever Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CookieG Posted March 1, 2019 Share Posted March 1, 2019 Just now, vorpma said: Ya, whatever lighten up Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vorpma Posted March 1, 2019 Share Posted March 1, 2019 Just now, CookieG said: lighten up OK, I will!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Straight Hucklebuck Posted March 2, 2019 Share Posted March 2, 2019 (edited) 10 hours ago, MPT said: Yikes. Overreaction indeed. How is it that some some people can disagree with one thing the coach said and all of a sudden they're a Bills-hating pitchfork mob? Someone clearly thought it was an important enough topic to make a thread about, so why not debate it? How? Because you are being socially policed. You can have any opinion you want, as long as it’s the opinion they want you to have. Otherwise you’re shamed. Edited March 2, 2019 by Straight Hucklebuck Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3rdand12 Posted March 2, 2019 Share Posted March 2, 2019 I would be delighted if Bills could consistently put 21 plus points a game. as long as we always old the Opponent to less than that. maybe that is his point. 6 hours ago, john wawrow said: I'm absolutely shocked this is only a 7-page thread. C'mon, folks, you can do a lot better in the over-reaction, hand-wringing department. jw bumped for hand wringing et al : ) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Punching Bag Posted March 2, 2019 Share Posted March 2, 2019 On 2/28/2019 at 6:45 PM, MPT said: I was not talking about an average of 21. Let's do some hypotheticals. In the Bills' losses last year, they could have scored 37, 30, 21, 21, 27, 24, 31, 22, 26, and 23. That's at least 21 in each game for an average of 26.2. That puts them at 8-8 (and I'm being generous giving them a win against the Dolphins at 22-21). They still would have missed the playoffs and lost by double digits 3 times. If, however, McDermott were to say the goal was at least 25 per game, you're now talking about a MINIMUM record of 10-5-1 in those same games. I just think it sets a bad tone when the coach sets the bar so low. Don't basically tell the media your goal every game is to have at least a mediocre offense and hope it works out sometimes. Do you think Belichick has EVER said he wanted to at least score 21 points every game? Absolutely not. That's a low standard and McDermott should know better. This is nitpicking silliness. If they were sustaining more drives and getting more points opponents would have less time on field to score points. Good luck Most Probably Trouble. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MAJBobby Posted March 2, 2019 Share Posted March 2, 2019 On 2/28/2019 at 6:36 AM, eball said: From the combine: “I know my background was defense, but I’m not a defensive coach who wants to win 9-7 every week,” he said. “I don’t think that’s a healthy way to become a legitimate contender and sustain success. We want to be able to score 21 points, at least, every game. You’re doing yourself a disservice if you’re not building your roster and your team to give yourself a legitimate chance to score 21 points. We used to set goals like holding a team under 17 (per game). How many teams do that anymore? Maybe one team per year. You have to be able to score points in this league.” This should put to rest any of the comments I've read on this board that McD doesn't "understand" today's NFL or doesn't get it. Weak. Yippie play for 21 points even though those that scored only 21 points have a losing record. This is a Defensive coach trying to sound not like a defensive coach Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trogdor Posted March 2, 2019 Share Posted March 2, 2019 11 minutes ago, MAJBobby said: Weak. Yippie play for 21 points even though those that scored only 21 points have a losing record. This is a Defensive coach trying to sound not like a defensive coach He always seems out of his depth in these situations. I really think he is a better coordinator than head coach. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eball Posted March 3, 2019 Author Share Posted March 3, 2019 17 hours ago, MAJBobby said: Weak. Yippie play for 21 points even though those that scored only 21 points have a losing record. This is a Defensive coach trying to sound not like a defensive coach Yep, that's what he said and meant. You nailed it. Congrats. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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