bilzfancy Posted February 23, 2019 Share Posted February 23, 2019 3 minutes ago, whatdrought said: Here's a novel idea, make income taxes based on a flat percentage rate. Say 10%, hypothetically. If I make S100,000 and pay 10% I pay $10,000.00 in taxes. If you make $1000.00 and pay 10% you pay $100.00 in taxes. That's equality. That's too easy and makes too much sense Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whatdrought Posted February 23, 2019 Share Posted February 23, 2019 Just now, bilzfancy said: That's too easy and makes too much sense Sorry... I forgot about how the billionaires owe me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Foxx Posted February 23, 2019 Share Posted February 23, 2019 1 hour ago, TakeYouToTasker said: I’m not sure where anyone gets off thinking they have the just authority to dictate to others what they’re permitted to earn. Its the peak of narcissism and immorality. it's called, Socialism. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boatdrinks Posted February 23, 2019 Share Posted February 23, 2019 13 minutes ago, whatdrought said: Here's a novel idea, make income taxes based on a flat percentage rate. Say 10%, hypothetically. If I make S100,000 and pay 10% I pay $10,000.00 in taxes. If you make $1000.00 and pay 10% you pay $100.00 in taxes. That's equality. A quick scan of 2016 data shows that the top 10% of filers nationwide accounted for 46.56% of total AGI that year. That group paid almost a 70% share of ALL income tax collected ( 69.47% ) The average tax rate paid was 21.19%. That’s over double your proposed rate of 10%. The income split point to be in that 10% was just a bit under $140,000. Hardly a billionaire. Further, the income split to join the top 25% of filers is only around $ 81,000. The average rate for that group was 17.84 %. Also a healthy amount over 10%. So a 10% tax rate would amount to a slash and burn of government in pretty much all areas. This sounds good, but wait. Some two thirds of the annual government budget goes to healthcare and retirement. I’m guessing a billionaire isn’t collecting a huge portion of money from any of those government expenditures. I’m not sure what % of filers you reach the threshold for, but I’d bet there aren’t many of the top 1% nationally that hang out on this message board. Just food for thought and yes I’d love an income tax cut personally. 25 minutes ago, bilzfancy said: That's too easy and makes too much sense Check the numbers and you’ll see it’s also wildly unfeasable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The_Dude Posted February 23, 2019 Author Share Posted February 23, 2019 It is my opinion that taxation over 20% is oppression unless in times of extreme crisis. Think about it — I’m stating that a person should work over 10 weeks and sacrifice all monies made during those weeks to the greater good. Over 2 months out of the year is what I’m suggesting. Who pays more than 20%? Break down what you pay in taxes to the government in terms of work weeks and ask yourself ‘am I a free man?’ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Foxx Posted February 23, 2019 Share Posted February 23, 2019 what is often missed in these figures are taxes you pay everyday. sales tax, gas tax, road tax, sin tax, use tax, you name it tax. then there are all those taxes disguised as 'fees'. when you account for all of these hidden taxes and add them to your income tax, you are paying close to 50% of your income to taxes. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boatdrinks Posted February 23, 2019 Share Posted February 23, 2019 3 minutes ago, The_Dude said: It is my opinion that taxation over 20% is oppression unless in times of extreme crisis. Think about it — I’m stating that a person should work over 10 weeks and sacrifice all monies made during those weeks to the greater good. Over 2 months out of the year is what I’m suggesting. Who pays more than 20%? Break down what you pay in taxes to the government in terms of work weeks and ask yourself ‘am I a free man?’ The top 10% of filers in 2016 earned 46.56% of total AGI and paid an average tax rate of 21.19%. Those taxes accounted for 69.47% share of all income taxes paid for that year. That is who is paying above 20% on average. The income split for that group was around 140k annually. 3 minutes ago, Foxx said: what is often missed in these figures are taxes you pay everyday. sales tax, gas tax, road tax, sin tax, use tax, you name it tax. then there are all those taxes disguised as 'fees'. when you account for all of these hidden taxes and add them to your income tax, you are paying close to 50% of your income to taxes. Plus state income tax depending where you live. The primary focus of the thread I believe was federal income tax, but it’s true we pay lots more in taxes than just what is reflected in our returns. Living in NYS means probably even more so in all those types of fees. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whatdrought Posted February 23, 2019 Share Posted February 23, 2019 9 minutes ago, Boatdrinks said: A quick scan of 2016 data shows that the top 10% of filers nationwide accounted for 46.56% of total AGI that year. That group paid almost a 70% share of ALL income tax collected ( 69.47% ) The average tax rate paid was 21.19%. That’s over double your proposed rate of 10%. The income split point to be in that 10% was just a bit under $140,000. Hardly a billionaire. Further, the income split to join the top 25% of filers is only around $ 81,000. The average rate for that group was 17.84 %. Also a healthy amount over 10%. So a 10% tax rate would amount to a slash and burn of government in pretty much all areas. This sounds good, but wait. Some two thirds of the annual government budget goes to healthcare and retirement. I’m guessing a billionaire isn’t collecting a huge portion of money from any of those government expenditures. I’m not sure what % of filers you reach the threshold for, but I’d bet there aren’t many of the top 1% nationally that hang out on this message board. Just food for thought and yes I’d love an income tax cut personally. Check the numbers and you’ll see it’s also wildly unfeasable. I'm not advocating for 10% - my post clearly said hypothetically and didn't even begin to advocate for that number- and I'm not getting into the economics of it. I'm breaking it down to the base argument. Jimmy sold lemonaide all summer and earned 50 dollars. Jenny did a dog sitting job for one day and turned down other forms of employment during the summer and earned 10 dollars. In order to fund the disney trip for the family, we're going to tax the summer income. Since Jimmy earned more, we're going to tax him at 50% (taking $25) But since Jenny earned less, we're going to tax her at 10% (taking $1.00) Also, arguing against tax cuts by saying the government is an overfed bloated, worthless piece of ***** organization is not logical in my opinion. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boatdrinks Posted February 23, 2019 Share Posted February 23, 2019 (edited) 3 minutes ago, whatdrought said: I'm not advocating for 10% - my post clearly said hypothetically and didn't even begin to advocate for that number- and I'm not getting into the economics of it. I'm breaking it down to the base argument. Jimmy sold lemonaide all summer and earned 50 dollars. Jenny did a dog sitting job for one day and turned down other forms of employment during the summer and earned 10 dollars. In order to fund the disney trip for the family, we're going to tax the summer income. Since Jimmy earned more, we're going to tax him at 50% (taking $25) But since Jenny earned less, we're going to tax her at 10% (taking $1.00) Also, arguing against tax cuts by saying the government is an overfed bloated, worthless piece of ***** organization is not logical in my opinion. Who’s arguing against tax cuts ? Personally, I’d love an income tax cut. However, the big picture must be considered. Whatever your intention was with the 10% example, I just provided some numbers as food for thought in the overall conversation. Edited February 23, 2019 by Boatdrinks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whatdrought Posted February 23, 2019 Share Posted February 23, 2019 Just now, Boatdrinks said: Whose arguing against tax cuts ? Personally, I’d love an income tax cut. However, the big picture must be considered. Whatever your intention was with the 10% example, I just provided some numbers as food for thought in the overall conversation. I gotcha. The reality is that a huge amount of the federal government could go away tomorrow and no real injustice would be done. There would be a lot of people hurt because we have slowly but surely built a wellfare state, but that's a whole other problem. We (you and I and every other employed american) pay for a ton of worthless ***** at the hands of the government. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boatdrinks Posted February 23, 2019 Share Posted February 23, 2019 1 minute ago, whatdrought said: I gotcha. The reality is that a huge amount of the federal government could go away tomorrow and no real injustice would be done. There would be a lot of people hurt because we have slowly but surely built a wellfare state, but that's a whole other problem. We (you and I and every other employed american) pay for a ton of worthless ***** at the hands of the government. Right. Perhaps it could be changed gradually over time. A massive overhaul immediately would affect all of us in some way and some worse than others. Many of those may be our own aunts and uncles , grandparents et al. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whatdrought Posted February 23, 2019 Share Posted February 23, 2019 Just now, Boatdrinks said: Right. Perhaps it could be changed gradually over time. A massive overhaul immediately would affect all of us in some way and some worse than others. Many of those may be our own aunts and uncles , grandparents et al. For sure. It would take a time machine to fix the real root issues. That being said, both sides of the spectrum have some stupid stupid ways of trying to fix it now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The_Dude Posted February 23, 2019 Author Share Posted February 23, 2019 Dear Finance/Accounting people, Remember, we’re not all finance and accounting people. I’m a simple soldier and hammer swinger. I understand complex matters best when they’re illustrated on construction paper, so do try to break down your numerals ‘Barney Style’ for us less sophisticated in the arts of moneying. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Foxx Posted February 23, 2019 Share Posted February 23, 2019 (edited) 47 minutes ago, Boatdrinks said: ... Plus state income tax depending where you live. The primary focus of the thread I believe was federal income tax, but it’s true we pay lots more in taxes than just what is reflected in our returns. Living in NYS means probably even more so in all those types of fees. and... this is the real issue, not just your federal taxes. Edited February 23, 2019 by Foxx Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The_Dude Posted February 23, 2019 Author Share Posted February 23, 2019 https://www.dailywire.com/news/43859/aoc-her-proposed-marginal-tax-rates-isnt-10-frank-camp For your reading pleasure Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Koko78 Posted February 24, 2019 Share Posted February 24, 2019 All taxes are inherently oppressive. As I quoted earlier, 'the power to tax is the power to destroy.' We agree to a certain amount of oppression when we implicitly agree to abide by the social contract. We expect certain benefits to being in an organized society, such as the free flow of commerce - which requires roads; protection - which involves the military, police, fire, EMS, jails, etc.; basic education for children - which requires schools; and so on. That takes money, and we agree to give up a certain amount of our money to fund those benefits. The question isn't when taxation becomes oppressive, but how much oppression we're willing to accept. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KRC Posted February 24, 2019 Share Posted February 24, 2019 17 hours ago, TPS said: I don't know anyone who says "get rid of" income inequality, but I do know a lot of people who think inequality has grown too extreme in this country. Really, the only people I've ever heard/read say everyone should have the same income are conservatives who somehow think that's what the left want. So, we want to keep enough income inequality to make sure we still have other people paying for the free stuff? 17 hours ago, TakeYouToTasker said: I’m not sure where anyone gets off thinking they have the just authority to dictate to others what they’re permitted to earn. Its the peak of narcissism and immorality. As Dude said, it is not how much you earn. It is how much you keep. They want you to earn as much as possible so that they have more to take from you to pay for all of the free stuff. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tiberius Posted February 24, 2019 Share Posted February 24, 2019 When it's devastating your economy, I guess. Trump's tariffs are a tax that is killing his own supporters in the farm states. Stupid, incompetent governance Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The_Dude Posted February 24, 2019 Author Share Posted February 24, 2019 17 minutes ago, Tiberius said: When it's devastating your economy, I guess. Trump's tariffs are a tax that is killing his own supporters in the farm states. Stupid, incompetent governance Tibs, how much should YOU pay in taxes? How much of the money you make should go to taxes? I want to know what you’d make your tax rate if given the chance. Honest question. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sherpa Posted February 24, 2019 Share Posted February 24, 2019 As an answer to the original question, I think a total of 40% state and federal is where we drew the line. While living in California, our combined tax rate was in that area, and we needed to determine if my wife's career was worth it. Combined with child care, our expenses on her additional income would be 50%. So....She quit, became a stay at home mom and we never looked back. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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