Vaccines and Trump: Your stance?

[BeginnersMind]

3 minutes ago, Dante said:

Maybe so. I don't want to give the government the power to vaccinate me or my kids. I'm so silly. Trust the state. 

 

Your stupid was "It's measles! Not a flesh-eating virus. Drama much?"

 

 

 

Edited March 26, 2019 by BeginnersMind

[whatdrought]

22 hours ago, DC Tom said:

 

I don't disagree with them...but how the ***** are they going to enforce that?  Do we have to carry immunization records around with us now?

 

 

 

Papers please. 

 

 

 

 

 

22 hours ago, Hedge said:

 

 

 

 

 

No surprise that it's happening in government overreach NY... Hopefully they get their asses sued off and this gets pushed to the SCOTUS.

Edited March 27, 2019 by whatdrought

[BeginnersMind]

4 hours ago, whatdrought said:

 

No surprise that it's happening in government overreach NY... Hopefully they get their asses sued off and this gets pushed to the SCOTUS.

 

What gets pushed to SCOTUS? A school district requiring kids to be immunized so they don’t kill other kids?

 

Good luck with that case. Unless you are one of the very few who are truly immuno compromised, take the needle or home school and learn home remedies for polio. 

 

10% here believe vaccines cause autism. It’s shockingly high but I’m still surprised it’s so low for PPP. 

Edited March 27, 2019 by BeginnersMind

[GG]

On 3/26/2019 at 1:56 PM, Koko78 said:

 

 

Wondering if you recognized the irony of this particular image?

[BringBackOrton]

On 3/26/2019 at 2:56 PM, Dante said:

What a joke. It's measles! Not a flesh-eating virus. Drama much? Just another opportunity to tell us what to do and how to get there.

You have no idea what you're talking about.  Thanks.

[Dante]

13 minutes ago, BringBackOrton said:

You have no idea what you're talking about.  Thanks.

 I don't and you do and that's fantastic. You will never have to worry about it because you will be vaccinated yes? You will have the peace of mind that the state saved the day and protected you from the much-feared measle epidemic sweeping the greater NYC area. If I lived there I wouldn't get it. I will have the peace of mind that the state didn't erode just a little bit more of whatever amount of liberty that is left.

[3rdnlng]

26 minutes ago, Dante said:

 I don't and you do and that's fantastic. You will never have to worry about it because you will be vaccinated yes? You will have the peace of mind that the state saved the day and protected you from the much-feared measle epidemic sweeping the greater NYC area. If I lived there I wouldn't get it. I will have the peace of mind that the state didn't erode just a little bit more of whatever amount of liberty that is left.

This doesn't seem like the place to make your stand against government overreach. Unless you choose to be a hermit your actions do affect other people and for some people measles is a serious disease. As a Conservative I'm not much in favor of government intrusions on our freedoms, but this is a legitimate use of governmental power.

[Dante]

1 minute ago, 3rdnlng said:

This doesn't seem like the place to make your stand against government overreach. Unless you choose to be a hermit your actions do affect other people and for some people measles is a serious disease. As a Conservative I'm not much in favor of government intrusions on our freedoms, but this is a legitimate use of governmental power.

I'm not against vaccination generally. I think it's discretionary and I believe people should be made aware of the risks. So when it's forced on people I get nervous.  I understand the reaction by BringBackOrton and yourself. I just choose to (or would) abstain. 

 

[3rdnlng]

3 minutes ago, Dante said:

I'm not against vaccination generally. I think it's discretionary and I believe people should be made aware of the risks. So when it's forced on people I get nervous.  I understand the reaction by BringBackOrton and yourself. I just choose to (or would) abstain. 

 

Then you are relying on other people to keep you safe by getting the vaccinations.

[Dante]

7 minutes ago, 3rdnlng said:

Then you are relying on other people to keep you safe by getting the vaccinations.

The last people I trust to keep me safe is the government.  Who kills more people than governments? I don't just mean ours. Internationally. In case it hasn't become apparent over the last few years they really don't give a shite about the citizens. Power and money are all that matters to them. So when I see a precedent of forcing vaxing, I just can't help but be skeptical. Follow the money and who is going to make money off of it? Pharmaceuticals and who are they paying off to get this stuff pushed on us? And it's just one more power over us.

Edited March 27, 2019 by Dante

[3rdnlng]

29 minutes ago, Dante said:

The last people I trust to keep me safe is the government.  Who kills more people than governments? I don't just mean ours. Internationally. In case it hasn't become apparent over the last few years they really don't give a shite about the citizens. Power and money are all that matters to them. So when I see a precedent of forcing vaxing, I just can't help but be skeptical. Follow the money and who is going to make money off of it? Pharmaceuticals and who are they paying off to get this stuff pushed on us? And it's just one more power over us.

My guess is that vaccines aren't much of a money maker for Big Pharm.

[DC Tom]

9 minutes ago, 3rdnlng said:

My guess is that vaccines aren't much of a money maker for Big Pharm.

 

They're not.  Total annual revenue for all vaccines for all companies is about 3% of the entire industry revenue, and profit margins are lower than other drugs.

 

Pharmaceutical companies would rather make drugs taken daily, than make vaccines that only have to be administered once.  If pharmaceutical companies were really driving things, they'd eliminate vaccines altogether, develop antivirals that you had to take regularly instead, and make a fortune.  

[whatdrought]

2 hours ago, BeginnersMind said:

 

What gets pushed to SCOTUS? A school district requiring kids to be immunized so they don’t kill other kids?

 

Good luck with that case. Unless you are one of the very few who are truly immuno compromised, take the needle or home school and learn home remedies for polio. 

 

10% here believe vaccines cause autism. It’s shockingly high but I’m still surprised it’s so low for PPP. 

 

It’s not the school system, it’s the entire county outlawing a certain population from public places with no laws backing them. It violates about 90% of the constitution, which, I know is a triggering word to libs like you, but there it is.

[DC Tom]

Just now, whatdrought said:

 

It’s not the school system, it’s the entire county outlawing a certain population from public places with no laws backing them. It violates about 90% of the constitution, which, I know is a triggering word to libs like you, but there it is.

 

Technically it's a quarantine, keeping people at high risk of creating/propagating an epidemic isolated from the public.

 

The Supreme Court has upheld quarantine as a necessary public health practice.  Of course, they were more common decades ago, until we stopped having so many major epidemics because PEOPLE STARTED BEING VACCINATED!!!!!! 

[whatdrought]

1 hour ago, 3rdnlng said:

This doesn't seem like the place to make your stand against government overreach. Unless you choose to be a hermit your actions do affect other people and for some people measles is a serious disease. As a Conservative I'm not much in favor of government intrusions on our freedoms, but this is a legitimate use of governmental power.

 

Under what law? Cause right now it’s unvacinated people barred from public places with no constitutional reasoning or legality, next week its Jews. Or gays. Or blacks. Whatever. 

 

Theres never not a good time to fight government overreach. Saying what we have to put in our children is the damndest of things to say aren’t important. 

1 minute ago, DC Tom said:

 

Technically it's a quarantine, keeping people at high risk of creating/propagating an epidemic isolated from the public.

 

The Supreme Court has upheld quarantine as a necessary public health practice.  Of course, they were more common decades ago, until we stopped having so many major epidemics because PEOPLE STARTED BEING VACCINATED!!!!!! 

 

I don’t want to run around this again with you; but it isn’t a quarantine because they’re not sick... you quarantine the sick population.

[DC Tom]

9 minutes ago, whatdrought said:

 

I don’t want to run around this again with you; but it isn’t a quarantine because they’re not sick... you quarantine the sick population.

 

Then shut up about ***** you don't understand.  You don't quarantine the sick population.  You isolate the sick.  You quarantine at-risk population who could start an epidemic.  That's the definition of "quarantine."  

 

And you specifically do it to prevent epidemics.  It's why Rockland County also declared a quarantine for Legionaries' Disease two weeks ago, too - three people had it, an entire factory was quarantined for exposure.  Same with recent flights to LaGuardia from the Middle East for MERV - no one had it, but people on the flights were at risk for it.   Same with Ebola five years ago, when we had a huge national argument about whether or not people who were in the same geographical region as Ebola should be quarantined as at risk for Ebola (even if they'd never been within 50 miles of an Ebola patient.

 

So yeah, keeping kids unvaccinated for measles, who are at risk to spread measles, from associating with the public - particularly the segment of the public like you who is too ***** stupid to understand words like "vaccine," "epidemic," or "quarantine" - is, in fact, a quarantine, legal under the laws of the US and the State of NY, as has been upheld by the courts multiple times.

[Dante]

19 minutes ago, DC Tom said:

 

Technically it's a quarantine, keeping people at high risk of creating/propagating an epidemic isolated from the public.

 

The Supreme Court has upheld quarantine as a necessary public health practice.  Of course, they were more common decades ago, until we stopped having so many major epidemics because PEOPLE STARTED BEING VACCINATED!!!!!! 

The guy said it himself, this came from immigrants coming from "overseas". We could actually prevent a lot of this before we have to vaccinate.

[GG]

5 minutes ago, Dante said:

The guy said it himself, this came from immigrants coming from "overseas". We could actually prevent a lot of this before we have to vaccinate.

It's not from immigrants coming from overseas.  It's from US citizens who travel overseas and then return with the disease.  

[DC Tom]

1 minute ago, GG said:

It's not from immigrants coming from overseas.  It's from US citizens who travel overseas and then return with the disease.  

 

I think they traced the one in Rockland to an immigrant, though.

 

Point being either way: measles was eradicated in the US within the past 10 years, until people decided that subacute sclerosing panencephalitis was better for their kids than an owie.  

[GG]

1 minute ago, DC Tom said:

 

I think they traced the one in Rockland to an immigrant, though.

 

Point being either way: measles was eradicated in the US within the past 10 years, until people decided that subacute sclerosing panencephalitis was better for their kids than an owie.  

One immigrant, compared with hundreds of citizens.    Another case of focusing on headlines and not the story.  

[BringBackOrton]

3 hours ago, Dante said:

 I don't and you do and that's fantastic. You will never have to worry about it because you will be vaccinated yes? You will have the peace of mind that the state saved the day and protected you from the much-feared measle epidemic sweeping the greater NYC area. If I lived there I wouldn't get it. I will have the peace of mind that the state didn't erode just a little bit more of whatever amount of liberty that is left.

Not everyone can get vaccinated, you ***** moron.

 

Like I said, you have no idea what you’re talking about. 

[Dante]

5 minutes ago, BringBackOrton said:

Not everyone can get vaccinated, you ***** moron.

 

Like I said, you have no idea what you’re talking about. 

Too bad. Not my problem. Like I said I would take my chances. I'm less afraid of the dreaded measles than whatever they are giving me.

Interesting I stopped getting flu shots years ago who'd a thunk it? Never get the flu anymore. Just coincidence I guess

[BringBackOrton]

11 minutes ago, Dante said:

Too bad. Not my problem. Like I said I would take my chances. I'm less afraid of the dreaded measles than whatever they are giving me.

Interesting I stopped getting flu shots years ago who'd a thunk it? Never get the flu anymore. Just coincidence I guess

You are demonstrating how brain dead you are with every post.

[DC Tom]

29 minutes ago, Dante said:

Too bad. Not my problem. Like I said I would take my chances. I'm less afraid of the dreaded measles than whatever they are giving me.

Interesting I stopped getting flu shots years ago who'd a thunk it? Never get the flu anymore. Just coincidence I guess

 

"I'm okay with epidemics, because I'd rather get sick." 

 

That is the stupidest take ever.

[Koko78]

8 minutes ago, DC Tom said:

 

"I'm okay with epidemics, because I'd rather get sick." 

 

That is the stupidest take ever.

 

Is it any better to be ok with epidemics because it culls the weak?

[DC Tom]

3 minutes ago, Koko78 said:

 

Is it any better to be ok with epidemics because it culls the weak?

 

Except they generally don't.  

[Pine Barrens Mafia]

7 hours ago, DC Tom said:

 

Except they generally don't.  

 

The black death was the single best thing to happen to medieval Europe.

[BeginnersMind]

11 hours ago, whatdrought said:

 

Under what law? Cause right now it’s unvacinated people barred from public places with no constitutional reasoning or legality, next week its Jews. Or gays. Or blacks. Whatever. 

 

Theres never not a good time to fight government overreach. Saying what we have to put in our children is the damndest of things to say aren’t important. 

 

 

You have the constitutional right to kill your kids with polio. But not mine. So you forfeit the right to kill my kids while killing yours—no vaccine no school. It’s actually pretty simple.

 

You also have the right to outthink science.  

 

 

40 minutes ago, Joe in Winslow said:

 

The black death was the single best thing to happen to medieval Europe.

 

Are you advocating for a repeat?

Edited March 28, 2019 by BeginnersMind

[TtownBillsFan]

On 2/20/2019 at 3:50 PM, DC Tom said:

 

Apparently there's a new one, that says something along the lines of "Since vaccines by definition cause an immune response, which includes an inflammatory reaction, there's a theoretical possibility - that has never been observed, mind you - that someone might have received some cerebral effects from a shot once."  Which the anti-vaxxer crowd immediately jumped on with the Batman-v-Superman-esque observation of "If there's even a one percent chance we have to treat it as an absolute certainty!"  

 

Because when you're interpreting a bulk statistical probability of risk, you really want to be guided by Ben Affleck's awkward performance in the DCU.   

I'm just going to say, I don't know enough about this subject, and don't have kids, and any harm done to me was done long ago...  so I don't give a flying fluck about people getting vaccinated now.  I will also say, I've never had a flu-shot, but that's more about my massive-fear of needles, and nothing more.  But I won't be taking any shots or needles that I'm not forced to from this point forward, either.  I'm anti-shot!

[TtownBillsFan]

13 hours ago, 3rdnlng said:

This doesn't seem like the place to make your stand against government overreach. Unless you choose to be a hermit your actions do affect other people and for some people measles is a serious disease. As a Conservative I'm not much in favor of government intrusions on our freedoms, but this is a legitimate use of governmental power.

But is it really?  We're talking about Chicken Pox and Measels, right?  The same measels that doesn't show up if you got Chick Pox when you were a kid?  No shot is going to keep either from showing up in a population, correct?  I know I went to a chick pox party, and itched like crazy for three days after when I was 8 years old.  DIdn't know at the time that it was on purpose, just knew me and my crew got to spend the night playing some Atari.  Yes, I'm that old

[Doc Brown]

9 hours ago, Dante said:

Too bad. Not my problem. Like I said I would take my chances. I'm less afraid of the dreaded measles than whatever they are giving me.

Interesting I stopped getting flu shots years ago who'd a thunk it? Never get the flu anymore. Just coincidence I guess

Definitely.  I was arrogant enough to not get the flu shot since I'd never catch it and then caught the flu about four years ago.  It sucked and I didn't feel right for over a month.  I get the flu shot every year now.  It's free for crying out loud.

[Pine Barrens Mafia]

39 minutes ago, BeginnersMind said:

 

Are you advocating for a repeat?

 

No, I'm not an anti-vaxxer. But I also believe that science won't be able to stop the next coming plague.

[BeginnersMind]

6 minutes ago, Joe in Winslow said:

 

No, I'm not an anti-vaxxer. But I also believe that science won't be able to stop the next coming plague.

 

That’s usually why it would be a plague. Because science of the day couldn’t stop it. So yes, the next “plague” will be one science can’t stop. Or are you proposing a religiously predicted plague?

 

In in this case, the diseases are avoidable. Until the stupid ratio gets too high. 

[Pine Barrens Mafia]

Just now, BeginnersMind said:

 

That’s usually why it would be a plague. Because science of the day couldn’t stop it. So yes, the next “plague” will be one science can’t stop. Or are you proposing a religiously predicted plague?

 

In in this case, the diseases are avoidable. Until the stupid ratio gets too high. 

 

Believe it or not, science doesn't have all the answers. Well, unless you're a global warming cultist. 

[GG]

3 minutes ago, Joe in Winslow said:

 

Believe it or not, science doesn't have all the answers. Well, unless you're a global warming cultist. 

Are you equating settled science and unsettled science?

[Pine Barrens Mafia]

8 minutes ago, GG said:

Are you equating settled science and unsettled science?

 

Yes.

[BeginnersMind]

30 minutes ago, Joe in Winslow said:

 

Believe it or not, science doesn't have all the answers. 

 

Scientists know that. The most interesting science happens at the frontier of the unanswered. 

 

Why do do you think the plague was such a good thing? And why are you so certain another one is coming? 

[4merper4mer]

37 minutes ago, BeginnersMind said:

 

That’s usually why it would be a plague. Because science of the day couldn’t stop it. So yes, the next “plague” will be one science can’t stop. Or are you proposing a religiously predicted plague?

 

In in this case, the diseases are avoidable. Until the stupid ratio gets too high. 

When the commie ratio gets too high the stupid ratio always follows.

[BeginnersMind]

22 minutes ago, Joe in Winslow said:

 

Yes.

 

At least you’re consistent. 

[Pine Barrens Mafia]

4 minutes ago, BeginnersMind said:

 

Scientists know that. The most interesting science happens at the frontier of the unanswered. 

 

Why do do you think the plague was such a good thing? And why are you so certain another one is coming? 

 

The plague lowered population levels which had multiple beneficial effects.  One, it helped break the feudal lord and peasant system, and freed labor to increase their overall value. Secondly, in places like Italy, the lower numbers of people meant that more land could be moved from growing cereal crops to fruits and other vegetables thereby increasing overall health. Thirdly, the lack of labor and population caused a need for new innovations which helped move progress on the continent.

 

I'm certain another is coming because I believe the Bible when it says it is.

 

 

Edited March 28, 2019 by Joe in Winslow