transplantbillsfan Posted January 24, 2019 Author Share Posted January 24, 2019 16 hours ago, TPS said: It's all about the proper footwork. However, If you don't start with the proper technique, then It's analogous to changing your golf swing: with enough practice and repetition you can do it; but, there will be times when you revert to what was natural before, especially in pressure situations. I will always personally expect to see him revert on occasion throughout his entire career. Allen's not a QB who's ever going to be PERFECTLY CONSISTENT in his accuracy... but the key is to get him to be as consistent as he can possibly be, and the fact that he's out in Cali working with a guy who obviously helped him mechanically from College to the pros should be really, really encouraging. 15 hours ago, formerlyofCtown said: Why is a pass rushing LB preparing for the draft with a QB coach.? I really kinda would love to draft JA, the Kentucky version, just for entertainment purposes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
transplantbillsfan Posted January 24, 2019 Author Share Posted January 24, 2019 10 hours ago, mattynh said: Allen struggle to complete 50% and it was not because of the WR's. He needs a lot of work on consistency/accuracy. And he needs a lot of work in the short passing game also. No. His completion percentage is mainly because of his incompetent offensive weapons. Allen's accuracy was what you see from a typical 1st round NFL rookie QB. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GaryPinC Posted January 24, 2019 Share Posted January 24, 2019 I think Josh will improve his accuracy and this is my simple reason why: He regularly made perfectly placed throws for us at all levels of the field, hitting guys in stride. He's also a raw prospect out of college, and vastly improved his decision making this year. Willing and able to improve. Contrast that with EJ Manuel. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt_In_NH Posted January 24, 2019 Share Posted January 24, 2019 6 hours ago, transplantbillsfan said: No. His completion percentage is mainly because of his incompetent offensive weapons. Allen's accuracy was what you see from a typical 1st round NFL rookie QB. You are saying two things, first its the fault of the rest of the offensive players and second it is typical for a rookie. Which is it? All I am saying is lets call a spade a spade. Was there lack of talent? Yes, Were their drops? Yes. Was the lack of talent and drops the main reason for completing low 50%? Nope sorry that is not what I saw. Yes his % would have been higher without drops. But all QB's have drops so the question is how many more drops did allen have compared to others. Josh Allen was often late on throws and as a result through into traffic, sometimes (more often than is typical) just misfires, and is generally not good at short passes, screens in particular. I am not saying Josh Allen is a bust or anything, just being honest with what I saw. Like you said, it is not atypical for a rookie to have some bad numbers, it does not predict the rest of his career or anything. But he has a lot to improve on is all I am saying. Anyone who thinks the guy is as good as Mahomes and he just needs talent is ridiculous (I have seen that a lot here). 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
transplantbillsfan Posted January 24, 2019 Author Share Posted January 24, 2019 2 hours ago, mattynh said: You are saying two things, first its the fault of the rest of the offensive players and second it is typical for a rookie. Which is it? All I am saying is lets call a spade a spade. Was there lack of talent? Yes, Were their drops? Yes. Was the lack of talent and drops the main reason for completing low 50%? Nope sorry that is not what I saw. Yes his % would have been higher without drops. But all QB's have drops so the question is how many more drops did allen have compared to others. Josh Allen was often late on throws and as a result through into traffic, sometimes (more often than is typical) just misfires, and is generally not good at short passes, screens in particular. I am not saying Josh Allen is a bust or anything, just being honest with what I saw. Like you said, it is not atypical for a rookie to have some bad numbers, it does not predict the rest of his career or anything. But he has a lot to improve on is all I am saying. Anyone who thinks the guy is as good as Mahomes and he just needs talent is ridiculous (I have seen that a lot here). Completion percentage and accuracy aren't the same thing, and you talked about them as though they are. Completion percentage involves the pass AND the catch. Accuracy JUST involves the pass. Allen's accuracy is fine by NFL standards, not just rookie standards, but as far as rookies go, he's actually good. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt_In_NH Posted January 24, 2019 Share Posted January 24, 2019 25 minutes ago, transplantbillsfan said: Completion percentage and accuracy aren't the same thing, and you talked about them as though they are. Completion percentage involves the pass AND the catch. Accuracy JUST involves the pass. Allen's accuracy is fine by NFL standards, not just rookie standards, but as far as rookies go, he's actually good. They are related but I will agree they are not the same. If you throw every ball in the dirt you will have 0%, so yeah they are not the same but more accurate passers generally have higher completion percentages. But its not just accuracy, its other things like throwing on time, getting the ball to the WR in the right window. All of that he will work on and hopefully improve. And actually, in terms of timing, he did get better after he returned from injury. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LABILLBACKER Posted January 24, 2019 Share Posted January 24, 2019 Jim Kelly's first 4 years we're 59%. In 92' during that SB year he was 58%. People are getting way off topic on this overblown accuracy issue. Josh will never be 65-70% in his career. But that won't deter him from being a franchise qb. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoshAllenHasBigHands Posted January 24, 2019 Share Posted January 24, 2019 12 minutes ago, LABILLBACKER said: Jim Kelly's first 4 years we're 59%. In 92' during that SB year he was 58%. People are getting way off topic on this overblown accuracy issue. Josh will never be 65-70% in his career. But that won't deter him from being a franchise qb. This is why analytics is just the worst. I mean, sure, it has its uses. But it doesn't have to be the predominant talking point on every issue. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LABILLBACKER Posted January 24, 2019 Share Posted January 24, 2019 1 hour ago, JoshAllenHasBigHands said: This is why analytics is just the worst. I mean, sure, it has its uses. But it doesn't have to be the predominant talking point on every issue. I pity the team that has to play against a 59% Josh Allen with his size, arm strength and off the charts mobility. Jim couldn't run like that, ever in his career. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
C.Biscuit97 Posted January 24, 2019 Share Posted January 24, 2019 2 hours ago, LABILLBACKER said: Jim Kelly's first 4 years we're 59%. In 92' during that SB year he was 58%. People are getting way off topic on this overblown accuracy issue. Josh will never be 65-70% in his career. But that won't deter him from being a franchise qb. Jim Kelly would complete 65% of his passes in this area. It’s a complete invalid comparison from today’s nfl to Jim Kelly’s. Its also makes what Dan Marino did so special as a passer. Now, Matt Stafford can pass for 5,000 yards. Its not normal to have a 52% passer in a league where the average starter is probsbly at around 63%. He’s a rookie but these excuses are mind numbing. He needs to become a better passer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoshAllenHasBigHands Posted January 24, 2019 Share Posted January 24, 2019 1 minute ago, C.Biscuit97 said: Jim Kelly would complete 65% of his passes in this area. It’s a complete invalid comparison from today’s nfl to Jim Kelly’s. Its also makes what Dan Marino did so special as a passer. Now, Matt Stafford can pass for 5,000 yards. Its not normal to have a 52% passer in a league where the average starter is probsbly at around 63%. He’s a rookie but these excuses are mind numbing. He needs to become a better passer. Mind numbing or not, you have never actually engaged with the warrants of the argument being made. You essentially just repeat over and over: No! He needs have a higher completion percentage. It doesn't matter how many ways people problematize your analysis, you just continue to repeat that the percentage needs to be higher. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
C.Biscuit97 Posted January 24, 2019 Share Posted January 24, 2019 (edited) 12 minutes ago, JoshAllenHasBigHands said: Mind numbing or not, you have never actually engaged with the warrants of the argument being made. You essentially just repeat over and over: No! He needs have a higher completion percentage. It doesn't matter how many ways people problematize your analysis, you just continue to repeat that the percentage needs to be higher. You can do this for every qb in the nfl. And it’s not like he was a 65% passer in the Mountain West and had a tough year as a rookie on a bad offense. Two journeymen qbs signed off the street (Anderson and Barkley) completed 60% of their passes at a higher ypa than Allen. They must have just gotten better receivers who won’t drop the ball. he is a rookie so he won’t be written off. But a top 10 pick qb should elevate the talent around him. 52% is terrible in today’s nfl and I’m sure if you asked Allen, he needs to improve instead of just blaming his receivers. And there is no downside to him working out with Palmer. I have zero questions about Allen’s work ethic. But why do people treat him like a qb guru? Who else has he ever worked with? Edited January 24, 2019 by C.Biscuit97 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldmanfan Posted January 24, 2019 Share Posted January 24, 2019 (edited) 13 minutes ago, C.Biscuit97 said: You can do this for every qb in the nfl. And it’s not like he was a 65% passer in the Mountain West and had a tough year as a rookie on a bad offense. Two journeymen qbs signed off the street (Anderson and Barkley) completed 60% of their passes. They must have just gotten better receivers who won’t drop the ball. he is a rookie so he won’t be written off. But a top 10 pick qb should elevate the talent around him. 52% is terrible in today’s nfl and I’m sure if you asked Allen, he needs to improve instead of just blaming his receivers. You are acting like someone who claims the sky is purple. Countless numbers of people give you solid explanations as to why the sky is blue, and you just keep saying the sky is purple no matter what. I'll give you the same data I've given you before. You throw thirty passes in a game about two completions change you from 52% to 60%. So take away one throwaway and one drop and there you are. Doesn't matter if other QBs have these as well. Doesn't matter at all what other QBs do past or present. All that matters to you is Allen increasing his percent. If you're going to continue to cling to this completion percentage thing, and continue to ignore that accuracy and completion percentage are not equivalent, all that matters is two passes a game. Give him a couple receivers that don't drop easy catches or make tough ones, and voila- you have your magic number. Yes Allen can get better. Yes he is already working to do so. But drop this nonsense about completion percentage. Enough already. Edited January 24, 2019 by oldmanfan 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
C.Biscuit97 Posted January 24, 2019 Share Posted January 24, 2019 2 minutes ago, oldmanfan said: You are acting like someone who claims the sky is purple. Countless numbers of people give you solid explanations as to why the sky is blue, and you just keep saying the sky is purple no matter what. I'll give you the same data I've given you before. You throw thirty passes in a game about two completions change you from 52% to 60%. So take away one throwaway and one drop and there you are. Doesn't matter if other QBs have these as well. Doesn't matter at all what other QBs do past or present. All that matters to you is Allen increasing his percent. If you're going to continue to cling to this completion percentage thing, and continue to ignore that accuracy and completion percentage are not equivalent, all that matters is two passes a game. Give him a couple receivers that don't drop easy catches or make tough ones, and voila- you have your magic number. Yes Allen can get better. Yes he is already working to do so. But drop this nonsense about completion percentage. Enough already. I miss being a homer. ? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LSHMEAB Posted January 24, 2019 Share Posted January 24, 2019 1 minute ago, oldmanfan said: You are acting like someone who claims the sky is purple. Countless numbers of people give you solid explanations as to why the sky is blue, and you just keep saying the sky is purple no matter what. I'll give you the same data I've given you before. You throw thirty passes in a game about two completions change you from 52% to 60%. So take away one throwaway and one drop and there you are. Doesn't matter if other QBs have these as well. Doesn't matter at all what other QBs do past or present. All that matters to you is Allen easing his percent. If you're going to continue to cling to this completion percentage thing, and continue to ignore that accuracy and completion percentage are not equivalent, all that matters is two passes a game. Give him a couple receivers that don't drop easy catches or make tough ones, and voila- you have your magic number. Yes Allen can get better. Yes he is already working to do so. But drop this nonsense about completion percentage. Enough already. Yes. We've heard all the "reasons" for Allen's low completion percentage in JUCO, Wyoming, and the Bills. It's only nonsense if you don't believe it's an important statistic. Until he's more proficient as a passer, it's going to be an issue. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoshAllenHasBigHands Posted January 24, 2019 Share Posted January 24, 2019 15 minutes ago, C.Biscuit97 said: You can do this for every qb in the nfl. And it’s not like he was a 65% passer in the Mountain West and had a tough year as a rookie on a bad offense. Two journeymen qbs signed off the street (Anderson and Barkley) completed 60% of their passes at a higher ypa than Allen. They must have just gotten better receivers who won’t drop the ball. he is a rookie so he won’t be written off. But a top 10 pick qb should elevate the talent around him. 52% is terrible in today’s nfl and I’m sure if you asked Allen, he needs to improve instead of just blaming his receivers. And there is no downside to him working out with Palmer. I have zero questions about Allen’s work ethic. But why do people treat him like a qb guru? Who else has he ever worked with? Dude...youre gonna cite to Anderson? The Barkley game was a product of him hitting deep over the top throws; the remainder were dump offs underneath. The ypa was artificially elevated by the deep shots. If there is a knock on Allen it is that he doesn't throw underneath. This of course explains why he can look more accurate than 52% and still have the low completion percentage. But, again, its a point you refuse to engage, choosing instead to continue to repeat that he is simply inaccurate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldmanfan Posted January 24, 2019 Share Posted January 24, 2019 Just now, LSHMEAB said: Yes. We've heard all the "reasons" for Allen's low completion percentage in JUCO, Wyoming, and the Bills. It's only nonsense if you don't believe it's an important statistic. Until he's more proficient as a passer, it's going to be an issue. It is not an important stat. 2 minutes ago, C.Biscuit97 said: I miss being a homer. ? Math, not homerism. Grow up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
C.Biscuit97 Posted January 24, 2019 Share Posted January 24, 2019 1 minute ago, JoshAllenHasBigHands said: Dude...youre gonna cite to Anderson? The Barkley game was a product of him hitting deep over the top throws; the remainder were dump offs underneath. The ypa was artificially elevated by the deep shots. If there is a knock on Allen it is that he doesn't throw underneath. This of course explains why he can look more accurate than 52% and still have the low completion percentage. But, again, its a point you refuse to engage, choosing instead to continue to repeat that he is simply inaccurate. 2 barely nfl QBs came in off the street and completed 60% of their passes at a higher ypa than Allen with the same team. he needs to become a more accurate passer. I can’t believe this is even being argued. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LSHMEAB Posted January 24, 2019 Share Posted January 24, 2019 1 minute ago, oldmanfan said: It is not an important stat. Please explain. Why is the percentage of times your pass is caught by the receiver not an important stat? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
C.Biscuit97 Posted January 24, 2019 Share Posted January 24, 2019 3 minutes ago, LSHMEAB said: Yes. We've heard all the "reasons" for Allen's low completion percentage in JUCO, Wyoming, and the Bills. It's only nonsense if you don't believe it's an important statistic. Until he's more proficient as a passer, it's going to be an issue. All of his JUCO wrs were terrible and it was a very tough conference. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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