Tremaine Edmunds: He was the worst player on the field Dec 23 (vs NE)

[Orlando Tim]

I have not watched particularly that much but if he is improving i am ok with it. I though am seeing why guys of his stature do not generally play MLB- it is hard to get low when you are so tall.

[vorpma]

19 hours ago, BillsEnthusiast said:

Time to panic and fire everyone I guess

Yes, fire the owners, coaches, scouts, players, fans, and city of Buffalo. Hire new then throw a temper tantrum and fire everybody again! Then start over - development not permitted!

[BADOLBILZ]

1 minute ago, NewDayBills said:

How do you like Edmunds as an EDGE? Do you think he can take over for Lorax? If he could just add another 10lbs he could be a nightmare for QBs. This is just speculation of course. Do you think he is simply out of position? Where do you think he should line up?

 

 

I assumed when he was drafted he would be used outside and then if it didn't work out great perhaps then be turned into a pass rushing DE as he grew into his frame.

 

That Lawson comparison is a concerning one though............I will never forget Lawson's completely uninstinctive play at OLB costing the Bills a huge home game against the Chiefs that swung the playoff chances of both teams.

 

Lawson actually got covered up some when moved inside in his last year with the Bills and looked like a much better player.................so it's hard to say for sure if playing outside will help or only serve to isolate him where he has less help to cover.

 

 

1 minute ago, vorpma said:

Yes, fire the owners, coaches, scouts, players, fans, and city of Buffalo. Hire new then throw a temper tantrum and fire everybody again! Then start over - development not permitted!

 

 

Are you still on the fire SDS as owner of TSW kick too or have you backed off that stance?

[Victory Formation]

2 minutes ago, BADOLBILZ said:

 

 

I assumed when he was drafted he would be used outside and then if it didn't work out great perhaps then be turned into a pass rushing DE as he grew into his frame.

 

That Lawson comparison is a concerning one though............I will never forget Lawson's completely uninstinctive play at OLB costing the Bills a huge home game against the Chiefs that swung the playoff chances of both teams.

 

Lawson actually got covered up some when moved inside in his last year with the Bills and looked like a much better player.................so it's hard to say for sure if playing outside will help or only serve to isolate him where he has less help to cover.

 

 

I'm right there with ya. I think the key is to simplify Edmunds' responsibilities, make his job as straight forward as possible. He is not a MLB, it's just not who he is. He'd probably be a vast upgrade over Lorax though.

[RyanC883]

I could see him being an OLB, esp. if Devin White, LB-LSU is BPA when we pick. 

[BADOLBILZ]

3 minutes ago, NewDayBills said:

I'm right there with ya. I think the key is to simplify Edmunds' responsibilities, make his job as straight forward as possible. He is not a MLB, it's just not who he is. He'd probably be a vast upgrade over Lorax though.

 

 

As discussed some earlier in this thread........the problem with moving him outside is then you need a good covering MLB to be able to keep a base 4-3 on the field and justify having 2 OLB's instead of an extra DB.

 

Milano is really good.......you don't want him off the field ever..........I don't think he could hold up physically inside so a switch there doesn't help, IMO.

 

I still love the potential of Edmunds but yeah you don't suffer thru multiple years of growing pains with a MLB.  

 

It's just not a position that's very hard to fill with competent players.    

 

There are generally several good veteran ones available cheap in FA.

[RyanC883]

1 hour ago, Logic said:

To say that Edmunds has been just bad this year is incorrect. To say that he has been just GOOD this year is incorrect.

The truth is this: He is good in pass coverage but has much work to do with regard to run fits and shedding blocks.

Edmunds and his height, length, and ridiculous wingspan are big contributors to the Bills' league-leading pass defense. I do agree, though, that he leaves a lot to be desired with regard to stopping the run. 

Oh, and those who want to look at yesterday's bad showing from the linebackers need also to remember that Matt Milano -- arguably the Bills' best defensive player this season -- was out, and his replacement was UDFA Corey Thompson. That's a big dropoff and DEFINITELY contributed to the overall poor showing from the Bills linebackers.

I'm not absolving Edmunds completely, though. He DOES have work to do to improve his game. But to say he's been "awful" or a bust or whatever? Nonsense. Oversimplification. Hyperbole. Foolishness.

 

the backup LB's leave something to be desired.  for sure. 

[vorpma]

Ok I will play, who is SDS!

[Victory Formation]

1 minute ago, BADOLBILZ said:

 

 

As discussed some earlier in this thread........the problem with moving him outside is then you need a good covering MLB to be able to keep a base 4-3 on the field and justify having 2 OLB's instead of an extra DB.

 

Milano is really good.......you don't want him off the field ever..........I don't think he could hold up physically inside so a switch there doesn't help, IMO.

 

I still love the potential of Edmunds but yeah you don't suffer thru multiple years of growing pains with a MLB.  

 

It's just not a position that's very hard to fill with competent players.    

 

There are generally several good veteran ones available cheap in FA.

Like you said, plug him in at DE in obvious passing situations and bump him outside in 3 LB sets, move him all over. Hughes and Edmunds coming off the edge on 3rd down will get QBs killed. 

[BADOLBILZ]

2 hours ago, papazoid said:

umm, he had 11 tackles

 

he will get better, stronger, smarter

 

I say this whole passing of the leadership torch has him slightly distracted on his individual assignments

 

 

I would hope you are right but it's pretty common for players who are given huge opportunities as rookies to not get better.

 

If improvement was linear like that then former stud 20 year old DT Amobi Okoye would have been Aaron Donald at age 25 instead of out of the NFL.

 

Sometimes rookies get put into positions they don't earn by necessity and put up their best numbers early.............do you recall Brandon Spoon?

 

That was a classic.   Brandon started all season at MLB for the Bills as a rookie in 2001 and had 2 INT's and scored 2 TD's and TSW thought they have found a guy who was only going to get better.   But the tape showed that he truly sucked down-in-and-out and he never played in the NFL again.

 

Check out former Brown/Bill Nate Orchard...........his rookie year was BY FAR his best just because he was given the opportunity to play on a team without talent.

 

The Bills really left the MLB position entirely to Edmunds.

 

Grading on a rookie curve is a sketchy proposition at best.

 

[Logic]

1 hour ago, BADOLBILZ said:

 

 

Your response is the epitome of oversimplification.

 

Edmunds has not been good in coverage.   He's not been in receivers back pockets by any means and he's been utterly abused time and again on play action fakes.

 

 

 
I find it unlikely that the Bills would achieve the #1 pass defense in the NFL and hold multiple quality passers under 180 yards passing with a middle linebacker who is bad at pass defense. 

Can he improve? Absolutely. Is he perfect? Certainly not. 

To say he has "not been good in coverage" overall because he has been beat at times is inaccurate.

[BillyWhiteShows]

5 minutes ago, Logic said:

 
I find it unlikely that the Bills would achieve the #1 pass defense in the NFL and hold multiple quality passers under 180 yards passing with a middle linebacker who is bad at pass defense. 

Can he improve? Absolutely. Is he perfect? Certainly not. 

To say he has "not been good in coverage" overall because he has been beat at times is inaccurate.

 

He has bit on many fakes and has been behind on coverage at times.  He’s been overall decent in coverage.

 

i stand by my original statement, he has been dreadful in run support

[BADOLBILZ]

Just now, Logic said:

 
I find it unlikely that the Bills would achieve the #1 pass defense in the NFL and hold multiple quality passers under 180 yards passing with a middle linebacker who is bad at pass defense. 

Can he improve? Absolutely. Is he perfect? Certainly not. 

To say he has "not been good in coverage" overall because he has been beat at times is inaccurate.

 

 

Where are all the plays that indicate how good he is?

 

Go back and watch that Chargers game and tell me that wasn't one of THE WORST days an NFL LB has ever had in coverage.

 

He has had a rough first year in coverage............"not good" might be a bit kind, even.

 

Nonsensical defense-takes like "Can he improve?" or "is he perfect?" are complete drivel...........it's like McDermott constantly telling the media "Would we like to score 50 points every week?  Sure." when explaining away the leagues second worst scoring offense...........it's point-free misdirection.......a "faux" perspective-giver to avoid the discussing the issue.

[ColoradoBills]

4 hours ago, Lenigmusx said:

Through 15 games Edmunds stats:

 

109 tackles, 1 int, 1 sack, 2 forced fumbles

 

Kendricks rookie stats:

 

92 tackles and 4 sacks, 0 ints, 0 forced fumbles

 

Posluszny 

 

26 tackles 3 games then the injury

110 tackles and 1 int, 0 sacks, 0 forced fumbles in year two and he was annoited a to MLB. 

 

Bobby Wagner Rookie stats:

 

tackles 140, 4 sacks, O ints 

 

statistically he is right there... I agree he was lost Sunday and in the GB and Jets games. The rest of the year he played like a talented rookie. Some good reads some bad. Post concussion he has played tentative I think the offseason will cure that. 

 

Thanks for posting the stats.  After seeing how much traction this thread is getting I wanted to do the same.

Edmunds has a lot of learning to do but some of the "end of the world'ers" act like he's Venus De Milo.

A smart Beane will get a competent backup to replace Stanford.

 

Some people around here need to breathe.

[BillyWhiteShows]

11 minutes ago, ColoradoBills said:

 

Thanks for posting the stats.  After seeing how much traction this thread is getting I wanted to do the same.

Edmunds has a lot of learning to do but some of the "end of the world'ers" act like he's Venus De Milo.

A smart Beane will get a competent backup to replace Stanford.

 

Some people around here need to breathe.

 

Right but people here also sound like it’s a guarantee Edmunds will be good.  It’s far from a sure thing, and I’m concerned after seeing what appears to be a lack of progress over the course of the year.

 

One thing that Edmunds has that the other don’t is better physical skills and a younger age.  Again, people use his age as an excuse for poor play but it definitely is a factor.  We’ll just have to hope for the best but I’m concerned about this position 

[ColoradoBills]

2 minutes ago, BillyWhiteShows said:

 

Right but people here also sound like it’s a guarantee Edmunds will be good.  It’s far from a sure thing, and I’m concerned after seeing what appears to be a lack of progress over the course of the year.

 

One thing that Edmunds has that the other don’t is better physical skills and a younger age.  Again, people use his age as an excuse for poor play but it definitely is a factor.  We’ll just have to hope for the best but I’m concerned about this position 

 

The bolded has a lot of merit. 

Reality (which is seldom discussed on this board anymore) is somewhere in the middle.

Thus my comment about Beane looking to improve on Stanford by a lot.

MLB is too important of a position in a McDermott style defense to put all the eggs in either basket.

I'm sure this will be discussed during the off season a lot.

 

Thus my comment about breathing.  IF McDermott and Beane go into next year with only Edmunds and Stanford THEN questions should be asked.

[formerlyofCtown]

2 hours ago, BADOLBILZ said:

 

 

Manny Lawson is a great comp so far........super long freak athlete first round pick.......with poor instincts.

 

Lawson flashed similar potential as an OLB in his rookie year and it was assumed he would just get better...........but he never overcame that lack of instinctive feel for the game so he never came close to reaching expectations.

 

I would hope that Edmunds could be much better but that's the risk you take when projecting athletes.    It was a bad draft for pass rushers and pass rushers are second only to QB in terms of value so you gotta' try to get potential impact ones when you get a chance.

 

 

Lawson is a pretty good comparison although he had a faster 40 but Edmunds is a little bigger.  We just need to hope he developes tobe more than Lawson.  Although Lawson was a good player I want great from TE.

[BADOLBILZ]

20 minutes ago, ColoradoBills said:

 

Thanks for posting the stats.  After seeing how much traction this thread is getting I wanted to do the same.

Edmunds has a lot of learning to do but some of the "end of the world'ers" act like he's Venus De Milo.

A smart Beane will get a competent backup to replace Stanford.

 

Some people around here need to breathe.

 

 

For what it cost them to acquire him they need Edmunds to be a high impact star player.

 

If he can't be that at MLB that's not necessarily the only place he can be.

 

But thanks for adding another ridiculous take calling us "end of world'ers" because we are concerned about his ability at MLB going forward based on actual results.

 

"end of world'ers" LOL...........another one up there with McDermott's weekly "would we like to score 50 points every game?  Sure" when explaining another terrible offensive day by the second worst scoring offense in football.?

[formerlyofCtown]

7 minutes ago, ColoradoBills said:

 

The bolded has a lot of merit. 

Reality (which is seldom discussed on this board anymore) is somewhere in the middle.

Thus my comment about Beane looking to improve on Stanford by a lot.

MLB is too important of a position in a McDermott style defense to put all the eggs in either basket.

I'm sure this will be discussed during the off season a lot.

 

Thus my comment about breathing.  IF McDermott and Beane go into next year with only Edmunds and Stanford THEN questions should be asked.

I would like to see them draft a LB that could play inside and outside as a backup MLB and eventual replacement for Zo.  But to be fair Carolina does not have Luke Keuchly behind Luke Keuchly

[ColoradoBills]

1 minute ago, BADOLBILZ said:

 

 

For what it cost them to acquire him they need Edmunds to be a high impact star player.

 

If he can't be that at MLB that's not necessarily the only place he can be.

 

But thanks for adding another ridiculous take calling us "end of world'ers" because we are concerned about his ability at MLB going forward based on actual results.

 

"end of world'ers" LOL...........another one up there with McDermott's weekly "would we like to score 50 points every game?  Sure" when explaining another terrible offensive day by the second worst scoring offense in football.?

 

I agree and he is not showing it.  The question is can he become that.

I personally cannot logically answer that yet.  I just think no one can.

 

I thought the "end of the world"ers" quote was a unique take and was said more in jest.

1 minute ago, formerlyofCtown said:

I would like to see them draft a LB that could play inside and outside as a backup MLB and eventual replacement for Zo.  But to be fair Carolina does not have Luke Keuchly behind Luke Keuchly

 

Yes, drafting or FA pickup would be prudent and I said the same yesterday in this thread.

As to Carolina and Keuchly.......of course they don't,  they have a "proven" guy.

Bills don't have that question answered with Edmunds yet.