thebandit27 Posted December 13, 2018 Share Posted December 13, 2018 6 minutes ago, dave mcbride said: I'll say it until I'm blue in the face, but that was a bad throw to Clay. Objectively so. I know we're on opposite ends of that play, but I still say that 100 NFL pass-catchers out of 100 will say that they expect to catch that ball with the game on the line, while maybe 5 NFL QBs (including Allen) will say that they would be able to avoid the pressure and make that throw. For the record: I don't expect to change your mind (nor do I presume that it needs to be changed) 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dave mcbride Posted December 13, 2018 Share Posted December 13, 2018 Just now, Joe in Winslow said: That traveled what, 40 yards in the air after being chased to the sideline and thrown off balance? Yeah. I'll continue to blame Charles Clay on that one. He made a great play up to that point. Regardless, it was a poor, inaccurate throw. Christ, it wasn't even *remotely* a spiral. I can't believe I'm arguing about this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pine Barrens Mafia Posted December 13, 2018 Share Posted December 13, 2018 Just now, dave mcbride said: He made a great play up to that point. Regardless, it was a poor, inaccurate throw. Christ, it wasn't even *remotely* a spiral. I can't believe I'm arguing about this. Sorry, but if you're right, you wouldn't be. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dave mcbride Posted December 13, 2018 Share Posted December 13, 2018 1 minute ago, thebandit27 said: I know we're on opposite ends of that play, but I still say that 100 NFL pass-catchers out of 100 will say that they expect to catch that ball with the game on the line, while maybe 5 NFL QBs (including Allen) will say that they would be able to avoid the pressure and make that throw. For the record: I don't expect to change your mind (nor do I presume that it needs to be changed) Agreed about the avoidance of pressure; it was impressive. You also know that I think that Zay Jones should have probably held onto that ball he was interfered with on. Upper tier receivers hold onto those. That was more catchable (even with the mild PI) than the Clay one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Teddy KGB Posted December 13, 2018 Share Posted December 13, 2018 2 minutes ago, dave mcbride said: I don't understand what you are saying or what the percentage refers to. How is that possible ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dave mcbride Posted December 13, 2018 Share Posted December 13, 2018 1 minute ago, Joe in Winslow said: Sorry, but if you're right, you wouldn't be. I'm not arguing because you're not presenting an argument (unlike Bandit). Just now, Teddy KGB said: How is that possible ? How is what possible? Can you please explain instead of being cryptic? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Teddy KGB Posted December 13, 2018 Share Posted December 13, 2018 (edited) 2 minutes ago, dave mcbride said: That was more catchable (even with the mild PI) than the Clay one. Yikes. Thats a spicy one Last year you went to war for the 56 yard kid but not want to rail against the rookie ? These are just turrrrrrrrble Edited December 13, 2018 by Teddy KGB Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pine Barrens Mafia Posted December 13, 2018 Share Posted December 13, 2018 Just now, dave mcbride said: I'm not arguing because you're not presenting an argument (unlike Bandit). My argment is pretty simple. It was a catchable ball. Had Clay ANY catching talent and situational awareness, it would have been caught, spiral or no. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dave mcbride Posted December 13, 2018 Share Posted December 13, 2018 (edited) 2 minutes ago, Joe in Winslow said: My argment is pretty simple. It was a catchable ball. Had Clay ANY catching talent and situational awareness, it would have been caught, spiral or no. We can agree to disagree. I think it would have qualified as a circus catch: doable for some but not most, especially TEs known for their blocking. Charles Clay, a decent TE, is not a flexible, high-talent leaper like, say, Antonio Brown. Gronk would not have made that catch, I don't think. Edited December 13, 2018 by dave mcbride Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoshAllenHasBigHands Posted December 13, 2018 Share Posted December 13, 2018 52 minutes ago, JoPar_v2 said: Barnwell is not clickbait. He’s posted more meaningful NFL pieces in the last 3 years than Peter King has in the last 30. Keep homering it up tho makes you look smart. Too bad this couldn't have been one of them. Again, if you can't agree that Allen has at least gotten better, then you are wrong. I was out on the article when he didn't appreciate that the difference in attempted air yards of 11.4 and 9.0 isn't a significant amount. 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dave mcbride Posted December 13, 2018 Share Posted December 13, 2018 3 minutes ago, JoshAllenHasBigHands said: Too bad this couldn't have been one of them. Again, if you can't agree that Allen has at least gotten better, then you are wrong. I was out on the article when he didn't appreciate that the difference in attempted air yards of 11.4 and 9.0 isn't a significant amount. He did clarify that he only focused on the last two games of each of the QBs. He was upfront about that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pine Barrens Mafia Posted December 13, 2018 Share Posted December 13, 2018 Just now, dave mcbride said: He did clarify that he only focused on the last two games of each of the QBs. He was upfront about that. So, he's judging a season's body of work on two games. Must be an "analytics" thing. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chuck Wagon Posted December 13, 2018 Share Posted December 13, 2018 I always expect the worst from Barnwell on the Bills and he never disappoints. So basically, Allen 9 GAMES into his career is a slightly worse version of what Tyrod was 7 YEARS into his career but everything is trash. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Teddy KGB Posted December 13, 2018 Share Posted December 13, 2018 (edited) 8 minutes ago, dave mcbride said: I think it would have qualified as a circus catch Worst post of the year Hands down ive never seen a “circus catch”by a wide open receiver whose feet were glued to the ground for some reason Can you cite similar circus catches for reference? Are you sure this isn’t about your torrid love for the Browns backup as well ? Seems to be clouding your views. Edited December 13, 2018 by Teddy KGB 3 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoshAllenHasBigHands Posted December 13, 2018 Share Posted December 13, 2018 3 minutes ago, dave mcbride said: He did clarify that he only focused on the last two games of each of the QBs. He was upfront about that. I thought he said he looked at the previous games and then "went back and looked at the last two again" If he didn't, how can he say Allen hasn't progressed? I'd go back and read the article again, but I hate giving articles like this more clicks than it deserves. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dave mcbride Posted December 13, 2018 Share Posted December 13, 2018 1 minute ago, Joe in Winslow said: So, he's judging a season's body of work on two games. Must be an "analytics" thing. No, that's not what he said. He said he watched every qb play of their last two games and factored that into an overall analysis of their entire seasons so far. Barnwell is about as good as it gets even if I don't always agree with him. My hunch is that if he said great things about Allen, no one here would be criticizing him. As I said above, I like Allen and the sky is the limit with him, but he is at the moment very error prone -- too many inaccurate passes and a lot of INTs (although not an inordinate # for a rookie). He needs a better cast, but he needs to get better too. Barnwell isn't wrong to say this, and he emphatically indicates that he's not declaring anyone a bust. Just now, JoshAllenHasBigHands said: I thought he said he looked at the previous games and then "went back and looked at the last two again" If he didn't, how can he say Allen hasn't progressed? I'd go back and read the article again, but I hate giving articles like this more clicks than it deserves. I said "focused." He said he watched every play of the last two games so that he could flesh out an overall assessment. He's not really glowing about any of these guys except Mayfield, and he is correct to be glowing about him. He's good. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldmanfan Posted December 13, 2018 Share Posted December 13, 2018 If Barnwell had gone back and looked at his first couple games and then compared them to the last two his article would have, or should have, read differently. Allen is a work in progress, and some of what he says is valid. Like better decision making. But to say he's worse version than Taylor? Silly. Taylor's issue is he wouldn't try to let his receivers makes plays, and Allen's is that at times he's too aggressive. I said it when Taylor got traded and Allen started playing: the same people that were critical of Taylor for not taking chances and throwing the occasional pick will be the same ones criticizing Allen for taking a chance and throwing a pick. And here we are. It's also a bit silly to give Darnold a pass for his O line and not mention it with the Allen critique. It's also a bit silly to just critique and not mention some of the really good throws he's made like some to Foster. One last thing. Clay has to catch that pass. He gets two hands on it in the end zone, he has to catch that pass. Plus what ever happened to the diea of working back to your QB when he's in trouble? 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dave mcbride Posted December 13, 2018 Share Posted December 13, 2018 4 minutes ago, Teddy KGB said: Worst post of the year Hands down ive never seen a “circus catch”by a wide open receiver whose feet were glued to the ground for some reason can you cite similar circus catch for reference? Exaggeration is a weapon of the weak, and I advise against it. I disagree with you, that's all. Are you suggesting that it was a remotely accurate pass? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GoBills808 Posted December 13, 2018 Share Posted December 13, 2018 Remember Barnwell was a big Taylor guy. These guys are prisoners of their original takes. You can't honestly complain about Allen's INTs completion percentage and then immediately say Darnold has a bad offensive line. 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoshAllenHasBigHands Posted December 13, 2018 Share Posted December 13, 2018 3 minutes ago, dave mcbride said: No, that's not what he said. He said he watched every qb play of their last two games and factored that into an overall analysis of their entire seasons so far. Barnwell is about as good as it gets even if I don't always agree with him. My hunch is that if he said great things about Allen, no one here would be criticizing him. As I said above, I like Allen and the sky is the limit with him, but he is at the moment very error prone -- too many inaccurate passes and a lot of INTs (although not an inordinate # for a rookie). He needs a better cast, but he needs to get better too. Barnwell isn't wrong to say this, and he emphatically indicates that he's not declaring anyone a bust. I said "focused." He said he watched every play of the last two games so that he could flesh out an overall assessment. He's not really glowing about any of these guys except Mayfield, and he is correct to be glowing about him. He's good. You just had to make me go and look.... The quote is: "I've been watching these quarterbacks all year, but in writing this, I rewatched each of their past two starts closely to get a sense of how they're progressing." From that, I think my criticism is fair. Your characterization is not unreasonable. All the same, if the point is to analyze how they are "progressing" I don't think it is fair to do that based on the last two games with only a cursory analysis of the first several games. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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