McDermott shouldn't have messed around with a QB competition over the Summer

[transplantbillsfan]

We had Nate Peterman, who is awful, was awful and always will be awful (but is apparently related to McDermott), AJ McCarron, who was our supposed "vet QB" with a mere handful of NFL starts in his career, and the 6'5, 240 lb, athletic, smart, rocket armed rookie you just traded up to draft at #7.

 

How the friggin hell do you not just make the OBVIOUS choice... and Allen WAS the OBVIOUS choice of that brilliant trio.

 

What pisses me off the most about this offseason is the stupid Summer QB competition that took valuable reps away from Allen when he was inevitably going to start very quickly based on what we had at QB.

 

You allow him to get a bit more comfortable with his OL and his WRs. Maybe we win another game and see him progressing. Maybe he doesn't get injured. 

 

Who knows?

 

(And yeah, sure, you could argue it could go the other way, but friggin Peterman and McCarron were the alternatives)

 

Everyone likes to point to the Mahomes model in KC as the logic behind their thought process over the Summer, but if the Chiefs didn't have Alex Smith, Mahomes would have started year 1 and probably would have been just fine.

 

Plus, our Alex Smith to start the season (for at least the 1st half of the 1st game ) was Nate Peterman because the guy it was supposed to be wound up sucking so much we traded him to the Raiders for a 5th.

 

I hope this works out for McBeane because I like them, but everything, absolutely everything about how they handled the QB situation over the Summer was all wrong.

 

And ya know what, it seems like it's all stemming from the same ridiculous conservatism that we see in McDermott's in-game coaching.

 

All we can do is hope they got Allen right and save their butts that way.

 

But for God's sake, can we just get Allen back so games are relatively interesting again and I'm not entertaining myself watching Peterman to the tune of Yakety Sax in my head?

 

Once Allen is healthy and the UCL in his elbow is no longer at risk of getting worse if he plays, he needs to play.

 

[Elite Poster]

I don't agree that Allen should've been starting out of the gates but it's pretty obvious it should've been McCarron or Tyrod. 

[Rock-A-Bye Beasley]

Cue post from “joesixpack” and “johnfromriverside” and the like saying wahhhhhhhhh!”

[Thurman#1]

Having a competition was fine. They wanted - very very reasonably - to sit Allen for his first season or a great deal of it. Would've helped him a lot. The injuries and poor performances unfortunately eliminated that possibility.

 

And with Allen sitting, of course they wanted a competition.

 

How can someone be the obvious choice when he can't beat out Peterman? He can't. Because he wasn't obvious or a good choice.

 

The problem was not bringing in a vet the minute they got rid of McCarron. They should've kept him or replaced him with a grizzled vet.

 

I do get the frustration. Man, this is hard to watch, really really painful. But this stage of a rebuild always is. Bills fans have to bite the bullet and watch for development.

Edited November 5, 2018 by Thurman#1

[dulles]

4 hours ago, Thurman#1 said:

Having a competition was fine. They wanted - very very reasonably - to sit Allen for his first season or a great deal of it. Would've helped him a lot. The injuries and poor performances unfortunately eliminated that possibility.

 

And with Allen sitting, of course they wanted a competition.

 

How can someone be the obvious choice when he can't beat out Peterman? He can't. Because he wasn't obvious or a good choice.

 

The problem was not bringing in a vet the minute they got rid of McCarron. They should've kept him or replaced him with a grizzled vet.

 

I do get the frustration. Man, this is hard to watch, really really painful. But this stage of a rebuild always is. Bills fans have to bite the bullet and watch for development.

Until that comeback in the fourth pre-season game, McCarron looked as lost against back-ups as Peterman has looked against starters.  I know in theory it was foolish to trade McC, but his performance was really poor in the pre-season.  I was shocked they got a pick for him.  On the other hand, you can't wait to bring in the vet, once the trade was made.

[transplantbillsfan]

8 hours ago, Elite Poster said:

I don't agree that Allen should've been starting out of the gates but it's pretty obvious it should've been McCarron or Tyrod. 

 

McCarron just blows.

 

Tyrod would have at least survived a bit and maybe kept the offense alive with his legs.

 

But Allen should have gotten all the reps considering we traded Taylor and our other options at QB.

[jrober38]

Allen wasn't the obvious choice.

 

He's mostly shown he has no business starting yet. 

 

Aside from 2 quarters against the Vikings, he's been really bad.

[transplantbillsfan]

3 hours ago, dulles said:

Until that comeback in the fourth pre-season game, McCarron looked as lost against back-ups as Peterman has looked against starters.  I know in theory it was foolish to trade McC, but his performance was really poor in the pre-season.  I was shocked they got a pick for him.  On the other hand, you can't wait to bring in the vet, once the trade was made.

 

Right. To me, the mistake wasn't getting rid of McCarron and not bringing in a vet at all. It was bringing in McCarron rather than making a damn serious run at a grizzled vet who has had years of starting experience in the NFL.

 

The reason I was saying over the Summer that Allen would win the QB competition week 1 (which he obviously would have if McDermott weren't a moron) had less to do with Allen than who he was up against.

1 hour ago, jrober38 said:

Allen wasn't the obvious choice.

 

He's mostly shown he has no business starting yet. 

 

Aside from 2 quarters against the Vikings, he's been really bad.

 

Nate Peterman... 1 INT for every 9 passes in his rookie year due, in part, to the lack of basic physical attributes necessary for an NFL QB.

 

AJ McCarron... handful of NFL starts 

 

Josh Allen... the guy you traded up to #7 for. 6'5. 240 lbs. Athletic. Smart. Tough. Respected. Great teammate and leader. Strong arm.

 

 

Allen was the obvious choice.

[kirkwoodus13]

They should have kept Tyrod for one more year. And the Bills had the option to do so and decided to trade it to Browns. If Tyrod was on this team the Bills would at least 4-4 right now and everyone would be saying bring in Allen, Tyrod is holding the offense back. besides not scoring the turnovers are killing this team. Tyrod don't turn the ball over and gives this type of team a chance to win. Front office screwed this up.

[Pine Barrens Mafia]

9 hours ago, Chemical said:

Cue post from “joesixpack” and “johnfromriverside” and the like saying wahhhhhhhhh!”

 

I wanna thank you for the cheap rent in your head.

[Rock-A-Bye Beasley]

1 minute ago, joesixpack said:

 

I wanna thank you for the cheap rent in your head.

Anytime. and I look forward to a post from you that is not a complaint about a negative poster. I'm sure it will come one day.

[jrober38]

1 hour ago, transplantbillsfan said:

 

Right. To me, the mistake wasn't getting rid of McCarron and not bringing in a vet at all. It was bringing in McCarron rather than making a damn serious run at a grizzled vet who has had years of starting experience in the NFL.

 

The reason I was saying over the Summer that Allen would win the QB competition week 1 (which he obviously would have if McDermott weren't a moron) had less to do with Allen than who he was up against.

 

Nate Peterman... 1 INT for every 9 passes in his rookie year due, in part, to the lack of basic physical attributes necessary for an NFL QB.

 

AJ McCarron... handful of NFL starts 

 

Josh Allen... the guy you traded up to #7 for. 6'5. 240 lbs. Athletic. Smart. Tough. Respected. Great teammate and leader. Strong arm.

 

 

Allen was the obvious choice.

 

Yet he finished 2nd or 3rd in the QB competition. 

 

Being big, tall, strong and a good guy off the field doesn't make a good QB. It didn't work out for EJ Manuel. 

[transplantbillsfan]

1 hour ago, kirkwoodus13 said:

They should have kept Tyrod for one more year. And the Bills had the option to do so and decided to trade it to Browns. If Tyrod was on this team the Bills would at least 4-4 right now and everyone would be saying bring in Allen, Tyrod is holding the offense back. besides not scoring the turnovers are killing this team. Tyrod don't turn the ball over and gives this type of team a chance to win. Front office screwed this up.

 

I thought the Bills would have kept Taylor for the year remaining he had on his contract for the very reason we were going to draft a future Franchise QB and McDermott is extremely conservative and would likely want to sit whoever that was.  And if I had known we were planning on drafting, I probably would have bet money we would have kept Taylor for that reason, and I would have lost.

 

Taylor would have covered a lot of blemishes on this offense, whatever you think of his passing.

 

All that said, if we didn't trade Taylor, we never would have gotten Edmunds.  So I'm still fine with that.  But I'm not fine with the idea that McCarron was viewed as somehow a lateral move from what Taylor brought to the table as a vet.  That part of this equation was ridiculous.

[transplantbillsfan]

2 hours ago, jrober38 said:

 

Yet he finished 2nd or 3rd in the QB competition. 

 

Being big, tall, strong and a good guy off the field doesn't make a good QB. It didn't work out for EJ Manuel. 

 

Obviously not "or 3rd" if the team traded McCarron away.

 

As for "finishing 2nd" in the QB competition, that's true, but only in the eyes of our Head Coach, who clearly has pretty crappy eyes for evaluating QBs.... I like him otherwise, but he's total crap there.

 

And don't forget his "oh *****!!! I've made a huge mistake!!!!" moment that came in the VERY FIRST HALF OF THE FIRST GAME.

 

Peterman won the QB competition in McDermott's eyes because McDermott was pretty stupidly evaluating play in preseason vanilla games rather than evaluating translatable skillsets to the regular season.

 

For example, Peterman threw at least a pass a game in the preseason that should have been an interception, if not a pick-six.  But the defenders in the preseason were preseason scrub defenders and couldn't hold onto the football, so those passes were dropped and (apparently) forgotten.

[ctk232]

14 hours ago, transplantbillsfan said:

What pisses me off the most about this offseason is the stupid Summer QB competition that took valuable reps away from Allen when he was inevitably going to start very quickly based on what we had at QB.

 

You allow him to get a bit more comfortable with his OL and his WRs. Maybe we win another game and see him progressing. Maybe he doesn't get injured. 

 

Who knows?

 

Once Allen is healthy and the UCL in his elbow is no longer at risk of getting worse if he plays, he needs to play.

 

That's really all I was hoping this would be about, so we don't turn this into another "McD/Beane bumbled the QB situation" thread. But I agree, I've never been a fan of "QB competitions" both in theory and in practice. In theory, you create competition forcing QBs to show you their best and allow you to make the most informed position. They in fact, do the exact opposite for the reasons you list. Minimal time spent with the ones limits what translatable play you see from QBs as it doesn't provide them time enough to sync with their WRs and TEs with timing, catch radius, ball placement, etc. - doesn't allow for them to mesh with the OL and to exchange pocket behavior and communication, and it doesn't create any sense of continuity for anyone on the team beyond the position. Your skill players and OL can't form functioning relationships with your starter and it usually creates a slow start to the season, often times below .500. 

 

They also create unnecessary media circuses where you generate mostly anticipatory expectations that whoever does win the job can never live up to. And the inevitable struggles of finally receiving consistent first team reps become exacerbated by the fact that everyone is surprised this "guy won the job."

 

Perhaps the biggest example is that it is really easy to be fooled by camp and the preseason beyond what game experience has shown. Not that QBs can't get better, but any QB that still needs to get better has no place "competing" for any starting job.

 

Coach needs to set the roster going into camp, regardless of potential of anyone else to "earn" the job. 

[transplantbillsfan]

It's funny... we currently actually have 6 QBs on our roster.

 

Too bad the sum of the whole can't be equal to its parts with regard to the QB position...

 

[BuffaloBillsGospel]

15 hours ago, jrober38 said:

Allen wasn't the obvious choice.

 

He's mostly shown he has no business starting yet. 

 

Aside from 2 quarters against the Vikings, he's been really bad.

 

No mention of the come from behind victory against the Titans, who were 3-1 when we faced them? He is having rookie struggles like most of these guys, most of the time it looks like he belongs out there when I watch him. He also struggled against the Texans but we were right in that game, I truly believe if Allen didn't get hurt we would have won that game but obviously there is no way to tell that and I thought he played an excellent game against the Vikings imo.

[peterpan]

People don't want to admit it but Allen, mentally, is terrible.  That's why he couldn't beat out Nate Peterman in practice.  

 

The real problem this team had was not making a Vet QB a priority in what is now two off seasons, but specifically last off-season.  If you recall there were like 8 QB needy teams.  Each and every one pursued the good vet QBs.  Minny, Denver, Ariz, NYJets(signed two guys), Washington.... They all went out and we're active in pursuing guys.  The Bills sat back and took the crap leftovers!!!! Seriously we were the LAST team to sign a guy!!!  

 

This deliberate mistake was compounded when we drafted the BIGGEST QB project since Tebow. 

 

Now our gm says his mistake was not bringing in Anderson sooner.....

[SoCal Deek]

I’m having a hard time with the Allen hate going on here. He’s a young rookie with a horrible surrounding cast. He’s been the starter for the only two wins the Bills have this season. Then his throwing arm gets injured on a fluke hit. Give the kid a chance! Yes, he’s raw, but he’s also shown a ton of heart. He’s certainly not afraid to compete. Relax!

[jrober38]

7 hours ago, BuffaloBillsGospel said:

 

No mention of the come from behind victory against the Titans, who were 3-1 when we faced them? He is having rookie struggles like most of these guys, most of the time it looks like he belongs out there when I watch him. He also struggled against the Texans but we were right in that game, I truly believe if Allen didn't get hurt we would have won that game but obviously there is no way to tell that and I thought he played an excellent game against the Vikings imo.

 

We were in the game because our defense played out of their minds.

 

Josh Allen was the worst player we had on the field.