John from Riverside Posted November 20, 2018 Share Posted November 20, 2018 Just now, BringBackOrton said: You were the one saying you’d take the next Matt Stafford. I was saying passing on the next Manning for the next Stafford is bad, because the next Manning is clearly the way better QB and that’s kinda the most important position out there. If Allen develops into Stafford, and Mahomes is Manning, we (the Bills) lose. Point blank. The problem is you dont know who is the next Stafford and who is the next Manning at the time.......or for that matter the guy that is going to be out of the league in 3 years............and as CRAZY as this sounds? Mahommes could fizzle after this year....I dont see it happening but it would not be the first time. Right now Mahommes is playing great and we are a non playoff team with a raw rookie QB with no OL or weapons.......the Chiefs cant stop butter but are a high powered offense.....is the goal to be awesome in the regular season or actually win a championship (something Reid actually struggles with) The end goal is to biuld a playoff team that has a chance to win a super bowl.......to me (despite the gawdy offensive regular season records right now) that depends on BALANCE of teams........ The rams were high powered last year.....they did not win the super bowl The Eagles were great on offense AND defense....and won the super bowl Right now our offense is putrid and our defense is good.......but it is a unfinished product Just now, Warcodered said: If only they all came clearly labeled like that for the draft. Yep they should staple it to their forheads.....and also include a little note to not start the will be awesome guy in his first year and make sure you get the greatest show on turf around him when you do start him Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aussie Joe Posted November 20, 2018 Share Posted November 20, 2018 3 minutes ago, BringBackOrton said: If Allen develops into Stafford, and Mahomes is Manning, we (the Bills) lose. Point blank. I would suggest it’s very likely the trade down with KC is “lost”already... Maybe Allen can be a Nick Foles who won a SB last year... I would be happy with one..I’m not getting any younger.. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John from Riverside Posted November 20, 2018 Share Posted November 20, 2018 2 minutes ago, Aussie Joe said: I would suggest it’s very likely the trade down with KC is “lost”already... Maybe Allen can be a Nick Foles who won a SB last year... I would be happy with one..I’m not getting any younger.. Regulating Allen to a backup level QB without even completing his rookie season? OK..... You do realize that QBs mature at different rates and Allen was very raw to begin with.......the bills didnt give him protection or talent at the pass catcher position......but we are supposed to write his final chapter now? I think I will wait Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BringBackOrton Posted November 20, 2018 Share Posted November 20, 2018 5 minutes ago, John from Riverside said: The problem is you dont know who is the next Stafford and who is the next Manning at the time.......or for that matter the guy that is going to be out of the league in 3 years............and as CRAZY as this sounds? Mahommes could fizzle after this year....I dont see it happening but it would not be the first time. Right now Mahommes is playing great and we are a non playoff team with a raw rookie QB with no OL or weapons.......the Chiefs cant stop butter but are a high powered offense.....is the goal to be awesome in the regular season or actually win a championship (something Reid actually struggles with) The end goal is to biuld a playoff team that has a chance to win a super bowl.......to me (despite the gawdy offensive regular season records right now) that depends on BALANCE of teams........ The rams were high powered last year.....they did not win the super bowl The Eagles were great on offense AND defense....and won the super bowl Right now our offense is putrid and our defense is good.......but it is a unfinished product Yep they should staple it to their forheads.....and also include a little note to not start the will be awesome guy in his first year and make sure you get the greatest show on turf around him when you do start him It’s more likely Allen fizzles than Mahomes at this point John. You don’t get to play the probability game when it suits you. I’m glad you’re happy with our QB and our team. I wish the Bills were 8-2 with an MVP candidate QB. I think we could have been if we took the right guy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John from Riverside Posted November 20, 2018 Share Posted November 20, 2018 Just now, BringBackOrton said: It’s more likely Allen fizzles than Mahomes at this point John. You don’t get to play the probability game when it suits you. I’m glad you’re happy with our QB and our team. I wish the Bills were 8-2 with an MVP candidate QB. I think we could have been if we took the right guy. Probably would have thrown Mahommes to the wolves just like we did with Allen....and we would probably have the same result because the KC offense would put EVERY SINGLE PLAYER OF OURS on the bench And Allen has not really got going yet to even have him fizzle.......still very early Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aussie Joe Posted November 20, 2018 Share Posted November 20, 2018 2 minutes ago, John from Riverside said: Regulating Allen to a backup level QB without even completing his rookie season? OK..... You do realize that QBs mature at different rates and Allen was very raw to begin with.......the bills didnt give him protection or talent at the pass catcher position......but we are supposed to write his final chapter now? I think I will wait If he wins a SB for the Bills, I don’t care if he is a starter, regular back up or Trent Dilfer Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BringBackOrton Posted November 20, 2018 Share Posted November 20, 2018 Just now, John from Riverside said: Probably would have thrown Mahommes to the wolves just like we did with Allen....and we would probably have the same result because the KC offense would put EVERY SINGLE PLAYER OF OURS on the bench And Allen has not really got going yet to even have him fizzle.......still very early You’re right. Allen might just be bad forever. A chilling thought. Mahomes would have been behind Tyrod. Probably wouldn’t trade away our LT. Maybe wouldn’t trade our #1 WR in camp. Maybe wouldn’t decide to lose on purpose year 2 because the QB was already on the roster. Who knows? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John from Riverside Posted November 20, 2018 Share Posted November 20, 2018 (edited) 1 minute ago, BringBackOrton said: You’re right. Allen might just be bad forever. A chilling thought. Mahomes would have been behind Tyrod. Probably wouldn’t trade away our LT. Maybe wouldn’t trade our #1 WR in camp. Maybe wouldn’t decide to lose on purpose year 2 because the QB was already on the roster. Who knows? Do you REALLY think Tyrod plays over Mahommes? Come on man......McD could not WAIT to bench Tyrod hence the 5 interception game Edited November 20, 2018 by John from Riverside Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BringBackOrton Posted November 20, 2018 Share Posted November 20, 2018 3 minutes ago, John from Riverside said: Do you REALLY think Tyrod plays over Mahommes? Come on man......McD could not WAIT to bench Tyrod hence the 5 interception game I guess we’ll never know. We just have to hope that Josh Allen isn’t the next Mark Sanchez. Good night John. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alphadawg7 Posted November 20, 2018 Share Posted November 20, 2018 46 minutes ago, PetermanThrew5Picks said: MVP MVP MVP MVP Jesus the day I hear Mahomes isn't good arguments.. I'm gonna lose it. NVM he's had haters all year for some ungodly reason. Brees is the MVP Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bing Bong Posted November 20, 2018 Share Posted November 20, 2018 (edited) 3 minutes ago, Alphadawg7 said: Brees is the MVP Mahomeboy. Like a young Jimmy Butler ? Edited November 20, 2018 by PetermanThrew5Picks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warcodered Posted November 20, 2018 Share Posted November 20, 2018 (edited) 8 minutes ago, BringBackOrton said: You’re right. Allen might just be bad forever. A chilling thought. Mahomes would have been behind Tyrod. Probably wouldn’t trade away our LT. Maybe wouldn’t trade our #1 WR in camp. Maybe wouldn’t decide to lose on purpose year 2 because the QB was already on the roster. Who knows? might, probably, maybe, maybe I'm pretty sure a lot of things might of happened and may happen. There was no giant Neon sign saying Mahomes would be good. McDermott had what less than 6 months on the job at that point not to mention the draft technically isn't his job. Even if it was his job what did he do he got a first and a third for the following draft where he would have time to research his pick in what has supposed to of been a great year for QBs. Edited November 20, 2018 by Warcodered Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BringBackOrton Posted November 20, 2018 Share Posted November 20, 2018 8 minutes ago, Warcodered said: might, probably, maybe, maybe I'm pretty sure a lot of things might of happened and may happen. There was no giant Neon sign saying Mahomes would be good. McDermott had what less than 6 months on the job at that point not to mention the draft technically isn't his job. Even if it was his job what did he do he got a first and a third for the following draft where he would have time to research his pick in what has supposed to of been a great year for QBs. Okay. If Allen busts and McD is fired, I guess it’s all gravy because he had his hands tied about taking a QB with a top 8 pick. He had time to research Tre White but not a QB. We all know one CB wins Super Bowls. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warcodered Posted November 20, 2018 Share Posted November 20, 2018 (edited) 5 minutes ago, BringBackOrton said: Okay. If Allen busts and McD is fired, I guess it’s all gravy because he had his hands tied about taking a QB with a top 8 pick. He had time to research Tre White but not a QB. We all know one CB wins Super Bowls. You said it yourself McD's fate is tied to Allen's just like it would of been to any QB he took in the first round last year. Makes sense to me that he'd take some good picks for the next year instead of tying his fate to a QB whose season ended before he was even hired. Also it's not hard to imagine he had more knowledge of a defensive prospect since he'd been the DC at Carolina. Edited November 20, 2018 by Warcodered Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alphadawg7 Posted November 20, 2018 Share Posted November 20, 2018 (edited) 58 minutes ago, BringBackOrton said: You were the one saying you’d take the next Matt Stafford. I was saying passing on the next Manning for the next Stafford is bad, because the next Manning is clearly the way better QB and that’s kinda the most important position out there. If Allen develops into Stafford, and Mahomes is Manning, we (the Bills) lose. Point blank. Manning was 1 and Done and NFL record 9 times with the Colts. He shattered NFL offensive records in 2013 with highest scoring offense in history...then got blown out by the Defensive Seahawks 41-8 in Super Bowl. 2015 Manning gets his 2nd SB trophy, but as the lowest rated passer in the NFL that year and worst statistical performance of any winning QB in NFL history...but Broncos D and run game got them there and the trophy. So, I think you’re over exaggerating Manning quite a bit here. Regular season monster, playoff decliner. I’d take Kurt Warner in playoffs in a heartbeat over Manning. More importantly, I would take a good offense and a great defense all day long over an elite offense and below average defense. If Stafford and Tre equalled good offense and Good D...I would take that over what Manning did most years....which was go home 9 times in the first playoff game and choke in the SB with the greatest offense in NFL history. If not for that Denver D in 2015, his brother would have more rings than him and his brother sucks. Edited November 20, 2018 by Alphadawg7 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BringBackOrton Posted November 20, 2018 Share Posted November 20, 2018 (edited) 5 hours ago, Alphadawg7 said: Manning was 1 and Done and NFL record 9 times with the Colts. He shattered NFL offensive records in 2013 with highest scoring offense in history...then got blown out by the Defensive Seahawks 41-8 in Super Bowl. 2015 Manning gets his 2nd SB trophy, but as the lowest rated passer in the NFL that year and worst statistical performance of any winning QB in NFL history...but Broncos D and run game got them there and the trophy. So, I think you’re over exaggerating Manning quite a bit here. Regular season monster, playoff decliner. I’d take Kurt Warner in playoffs in a heartbeat over Manning. More importantly, I would take a good offense and a great defense all day long over an elite offense and below average defense. If Stafford and Tre equalled good offense and Good D...I would take that over what Manning did most years....which was go home 9 times in the first playoff game and choke in the SB with the greatest offense in NFL history. If not for that Denver D in 2015, his brother would have more rings than him and his brother sucks. I’d take one and done over not making the playoffs. Which Stafford has done how many times in his career? You can’t win the Super Bowl without making the playoffs. Statistically impossible, actually. And Peyton Manning is a surefire HoF QB. Matt Stafford is a good for his era QB. I always take HoF QB over good QB. Edited November 20, 2018 by BringBackOrton Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IDBillzFan Posted November 20, 2018 Share Posted November 20, 2018 Is it me or did @SDS specifically ask that this thread not devolve into another 'Woe is me. Allen sucks. We should have picked Mahomes!" thread. I mean, even if you're going to dismiss a request by an OP, maybe be more respectful to the wishes of the guy who literally created and hosts this message board. Just a suggestion. There are plenty of places to boo-hoo over Allen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alphadawg7 Posted November 20, 2018 Share Posted November 20, 2018 (edited) 3 hours ago, TheElectricCompany said: To say that "defenses will adjust to him" is hilarious. What NFL defense is shutting down any top 10 passing attack? His two losses this year are when they scored 40 and 51 points! Hmmmmm...#1 passing attack and highest scoring offense in NFL history in 2007 put up just 14 points on Giants and lost SB. Same elite offense put up 17 a few years later against same Giants and lost SB. 2013, Manning and Broncos shatter all scoring and passing records Pats set in 2007...then get blown out in Super Bowl 41-8 by Seahawks. These aren’t top 10 in league, these are among top 10 and both the top 2 in history. So to answer your question...Giants (twice) and Seahawks for starters. Side Note: Top 5 offenses in NFL History 0-3 in SB and two of them never made the SB. Edited November 20, 2018 by Alphadawg7 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LSHMEAB Posted November 20, 2018 Share Posted November 20, 2018 12 hours ago, John from Riverside said: Do you realize how many QBs just flat bust no matter how highly they are drafted? Yes. I certainly do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Haslett_Stomp Posted November 20, 2018 Share Posted November 20, 2018 Last night's game was the first time I had seen Mahomes play. I had read the articles and seen the talking heads raving about him but was skeptical. The kid can play. Two of the most respected defensive minds in the game over the past several decades have won their games against the Chiefs this year but could barely slow down the KC offense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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