Before I get flamed, this is my first post and a WR question

[Hapless Bills Fan]

5 hours ago, 26CornerBlitz said:

 

I'n certainly not. Not one key play to determine the outcome of the game was made by a WR last Sunday: Watch Buffalo Bills vs. Minnesota Vikings [09/23/2018] - NFL.com

 

I'm talking strictly WRs while you keep mentioning TEs to buttress your argument.  The WR group produced 8 catches for 81 yards as a whole. 

 

You may not believe you are being "ornery", but when you take a premise like "not as dire as that" or "one reason we won is that the WR stepped up" (from what to what, not specified.. I meant from their performance in previous games)....then you change it to "not much of a factor".....then when it's pointed out that WR did contribute you change again to "not a primary factor" then again to "not one key play to determine the outcome of the game" -

 

Yeah, you're either being deliberately obtuse, or ornery for the sake of being ornery.  Maybe you're doing it without being aware of what you're doing.  Maybe it's habit.  It's something that helps some people feel as though they've won arguments, when really the other party in the discussion just rolls their eyes and walks on.

 

WR/TE, welcome to the modern era where TE are fundamentally asked to run routes and contribute like WR.  Line up like a WR, run routes like a WR, get counted as a WR to me.  But in any event, go look at the play by play for yourself, erase those 8 catches, and ask how the game would have differed.  If Andre Holmes doesn't make that goal line-grab that set up the JA dive for our 2nd TD?  If Benjamin doesn't make a grab to put us back in FG range on 3-20 and set up our 2nd FG? 

 

I repeat: one reason we won is that the WR stepped up.  Doesn't mean they're great.  Doesn't mean they didn't leave plays on the field.  But they made some tough catches that helped the team score.

 

When you turn it into "not one key play" and "not a primary factor" whatever that means to you - you're arguing with yourself, because you're twisting what I said to suit ya.

Ornery.  (or maybe just obtuse, but giving the benefit of the doubt here).

[26CornerBlitz]

1 hour ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

You may not believe you are being "ornery", but when you take a premise like "not as dire as that" or "one reason we won is that the WR stepped up" (from what to what, not specified.. I meant from their performance in previous games)....then you change it to "not much of a factor".....then when it's pointed out that WR did contribute you change again to "not a primary factor" then again to "not one key play to determine the outcome of the game" -

 

Yeah, you're either being deliberately obtuse, or ornery for the sake of being ornery.  Maybe you're doing it without being aware of what you're doing.  Maybe it's habit.  It's something that helps some people feel as though they've won arguments, when really the other party in the discussion just rolls their eyes and walks on.

 

WR/TE, welcome to the modern era where TE are fundamentally asked to run routes and contribute like WR.  Line up like a WR, run routes like a WR, get counted as a WR to me.  But in any event, go look at the play by play for yourself, erase those 8 catches, and ask how the game would have differed.  If Andre Holmes doesn't make that goal line-grab that set up the JA dive for our 2nd TD?  If Benjamin doesn't make a grab to put us back in FG range on 3-20 and set up our 2nd FG? 

 

I repeat: one reason we won is that the WR stepped up.  Doesn't mean they're great.  Doesn't mean they didn't leave plays on the field.  But they made some tough catches that helped the team score.

 

When you turn it into "not one key play" and "not a primary factor" whatever that means to you - you're arguing with yourself, because you're twisting what I said to suit ya.

Ornery.  (or maybe just obtuse, but giving the benefit of the doubt here).

 

It's neither onery nor obtuse no matter how much you repeat it.  After Ray Ray McCloud's catch for six yards on the 1st play of the game.  Benjamin dropped a throw from Allen that caused the Bills to settle for a FG instead of having 1st and goal.  Holmes was the only other WR who made a catch (3 yrds) until after the score was 24-0 in favor of the Bills.   Stepped up?  They were barely a factor.  Nice try on trying to expand the definition of a WR so you can include TEs. 

Edited September 29, 2018 by 26CornerBlitz

[FearLess Price]

Kb is a TE masquerading as a WR. It is what it is.

[26CornerBlitz]

Just now, FearLess Price said:

Kb is a TE masquerading as a WR. It is what it is.

 

Have you seen him block? 

[FearLess Price]

Just now, 26CornerBlitz said:

 

Have you seen him block? 

 

He doesnt even know what block means. Kb is trash.

Just now, 26CornerBlitz said:

 

Have you seen him block? 

 

I didnt say he was a good TE

its a testament to how God awful slow he is

[JohnC]

12 hours ago, 26CornerBlitz said:

 

Dez is looking for a very specific team and I don't think it's Buffalo. 

Dez may not have a desire to play for Buffalo but the bigger issue is whether McDermott would have any interest in a very faded player with a volatile personality? I doubt it. One of the major liabilities in the receiving corps is that their wideouts can't get open. Dez, especially at this end stage of his career, isn't elusive enough as a receiver. Why add a receiver with an attribute that accentuates that same weakness that the unit has? 

 

Dez is a very volatile and emotional player who acts out when he is not involved in the action. What the wrestling coach doesn't want on his roster is a player too often on the verge of exploding when things are not going well for him or the offense. I'm not suggesting that Dez is a bad person but it would no make sense for this organization to have any interest in him, even accepting the fact that he probably has little interest in Buffalo.   

[Hapless Bills Fan]

10 minutes ago, 26CornerBlitz said:

 

Have you seen him block? 

 When you're Right, you're Right.

 

KB is a WR cuz no sane GM would try him at TE

 

8 minutes ago, JohnC said:

Dez may not have a desire to play for Buffalo but the bigger issue is whether McDermott would have any interest in a very faded player with a volatile personality? I doubt it. One of the major liabilities in the receiving corps is that their wideouts can't get open. Dez, especially at this end stage of his career, isn't elusive enough as a receiver. Why add a receiver with an attribute that accentuates that same weakness that the unit has? 

 

Dez is a very volatile and emotional player who acts out when he is not involved in the action. What the wrestling coach doesn't want on his roster is a player too often on the verge of exploding when things are not going well for him or the offense. I'm not suggesting that Dez is a bad person but it would no make sense for this organization to have any interest in him, even accepting the fact that he probably has little interest in Buffalo.   

 

I thought the OP summarized Dez very succinctly:  " I personally think the guy is an narcissistic, sociopathic, ego driven head case "

 

That being so, at his prime his skill level was high enough for coaches and GMs to deal with his crap.

At his current level of fading skills and 50% catch, well, he's a narcissistic sociopathic ego driven WR whose skill level no longer outweighs his baggage.

[Cripple Creek]

I believe that all we need to do is give Robert Foster a chance.

[NewEra]

1 hour ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

Well, the OP started out with " they can't seem to run quick slants without dropping balls or mistiming routes. "

 

In fact, in the last week and a half, I've seen basic routes run without dropping balls and mistiming routes.  Been watching all-22, starting with the run plays (aside: you want dire - look at the run blocking esp v. Chargers) but sliding in to the pass plays.   Vs Chargers, the main problem was Allen not progressing through his reads, there were guys open.  Last week, he saw more of these but still left plays on the field.  Our WR aren't world beaters, but they were being schemed open more often than not. 

 

That horrid muffed flip pass (called a fumble) by RayRay was run beautifully by Foster against the Chargers.

 

Doesn't mean they might not be the worst WR unit in the league, just means not quite as dire as being unable to run a quick slant or correctly timed route.

 

 

Our WR unit is in dire need of talent.  That is an absolute fact.  

[The Crowing Rooster]

[Hapless Bills Fan]

16 minutes ago, FearLess Price said:

He doesnt even know what block means. Kb is trash.

 

Oh he knows what it MEANS.  He just doesn't want to put his body on the line that way.

 

I think right now, KB is really just not that into football.    He wants to play for a team where he'll be schemed open - like Croom on that TD - and have a top-quality QB throw him laser target balls he just has to throw his hands up to catch.

 

The problem is, to scheme a guy open you need to sell the defense he's doing something other than what they think he's gonna do.  He needs to sell them a different route than he's really running.  He needs to sell them he's out there to block when he's really the target. 

 

KB lacks sales skills either way.  He doesn't have the moves to fake out a defender then the speed to go somewhere else.

No sane defender who's watched his film would believe he's out there as a blocker.

And even the very best most accurate QB make off-platform throws under pressure, where the ball hits the WR zip code, and they need their guys to adjust.

 

KB was drafted to be a big target with a big catch radius who can make those adjustments and haul in the high degree of difficulty, contested balls.

 

He does seem to want to get paid, so hopefully McDermott knows the way into his head to explain that the path to plentitude is through Doing His Job.

 

 

 

 

 

11 minutes ago, Cripple Creek said:

I believe that all we need to do is give Robert Foster a chance.

 

[Formerly Allan in MD]

12 hours ago, Boca BIlls said:

Just find it odd the Patriots who are bringing in ever single WR they can haven't touched him. I sign want him to retire if he doesnt get the targets.

Belichik knows what he's doing.

[JohnC]

19 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 When you're Right, you're Right.

 

KB is a WR cuz no sane GM would try him at TE

 

 

I thought the OP summarized Dez very succinctly: " I personally think the guy is an narcissistic, sociopathic, ego driven head case "

 

That being so, at his prime his skill level was high enough for coaches and GMs to deal with his crap.

At his current level of fading skills and 50% catch, well, he's a narcissistic sociopathic ego driven WR whose skill level no longer outweighs his baggage.

There were teams that were interested in him prior to the season. Both Baltimore and Cleveland were seriously interested in him with (if memory is correct) Baltimore giving him an offer that he declined. I have no doubt that the interested teams know exactly what they would be getting from a playing and personality standpoint. He's far from being an under the radar player with unknown traits. 

 

Is Dez a narcissistic and ego driven player? Yes. But that doesn't distinguish him from many athletes in pro sports. On the other hand when described with a word such as sociopathic then that is a pejorative term that I'm not willing to associate with him. That would be grossly unfair. 

 

My sense of the Dez situation is that by waiting for what he considered to be the best situation for himself he put himself in a position where he may end up being left out this season. Did he miscalculate or did his hesitation to make a decision be a reflection of his actual interest in playing any more? Only he can answer that question. 

[FearLess Price]

1 hour ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

Oh he knows what it MEANS.  He just doesn't want to put his body on the line that way..

 

KB was drafted to be a big target with a big catch radius who can make those adjustments and haul in the high degree of difficulty, contested balls.

 

He does seem to want to get paid, so hopefully McDermott knows the way into his head to explain that the path to plentitude is through Doing His Job.

 

My comment was more about his speed. His blocking is non existent. He wishes he was bob woods.

 

I actually do think Foster can be really good in a year or 2. He gets good seperation jus needs better hands and ball tracing.

[MJS]

13 hours ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

Yes, they did.

 

I don’t think Brian Daboll caught many passes from Allen, and I’m quite sure Allen caught none from himself.

Did Allen play like his hair was on fire, gain yards and score TDs yes. 

Did the WR and TE contribute?  Also yes.

 

TEs and RBs contributed a lot to the passing game. WRs continued their trend of dropping passes. We lead the league in dropped passes, and that's only including a couple from Kelvin Benjamin because many of his drops were deemed contested (the exact passes that he is supposed to be making).

 

I think they need to step up a lot and make tough, contested catches sometimes, especially Benjamin. I don't think anyone can logically claim that they have been playing well.

Edited September 29, 2018 by MJS

[26CornerBlitz]

1 minute ago, MJS said:

 

TEs and RBs contributed a lot to the passing game. WRs continued their trend of dropping passes. We lead the league in dropped passes, and that's only including a couple from Kelvin Benjamin because many of his drops were deemed contested (the exact passes that he is supposed to be making).

 

I think they need to step up a lot and make tough, contested catches sometimes, especially Benjamin. I don't think anyone can logically claim that they have been playing well.

 

The two biggest and most impactful plays in the passing game were made by Ivory and Croom. 

[Patrick Duffy]

3 minutes ago, 26CornerBlitz said:

 

The two biggest and most impactful plays in the passing game were made by Ivory and Croom. 

This is correct. Been disappointed in the WR play thus far. They have to get their **** together and hope it starts tomorrow.

[OldTimeAFLGuy]

4 hours ago, JMF2006 said:

 

He did it to TO.

 

First he overpays them

 

Then JJ asks them to take a pay cut when they refuse they get cut 

 

...the pay cut is to cover the increased day care costs for these divas............

[Sky Diver]

2 hours ago, Cripple Creek said:

I believe that all we need to do is give Robert Foster a chance.

 

Agreed. They need to get him more involved in the offense with bubble screens and jet sweeps.

[OldTimeAFLGuy]

2 minutes ago, Sky Diver said:

 

Agreed. They need to get him more involved in the offense with bubble screens and jet sweeps.

 

 

...sure he has speed, but "bomb or nothin'" won't help him learn hand/eye coordination. Shorten things up and see if he can improve/grow his confidence IMO.