26CornerBlitz Posted June 25, 2018 Posted June 25, 2018 On 6/25/2018 at 7:49 PM, John from Riverside said: We got more out of EJ Gaines then we did out of Sammy Watkins Expand Not sure how you arrive here when his 1st two seasons were very productive.
John from Riverside Posted June 25, 2018 Posted June 25, 2018 On 6/25/2018 at 7:50 PM, Jauronimo said: Based on the commutative properties of draft picks, Gaines cost multiple first rounders AND a second round pick to acquire and then he was hurt all year. 11 games and 48 tackles? Expand how many passes defensed? How many times did a QB not throw that way because of his coverage? My point is that he was definately worth more to us last year....... When you factor in that he was not going to resign with us unless we totally overpaid the whole trading Sammy thing made sense. We simply paid too much for him when we drafted him (I was totally for the trade at the time)
Jauronimo Posted June 25, 2018 Posted June 25, 2018 On 6/25/2018 at 7:56 PM, John from Riverside said: how many passes defensed? How many times did a QB not throw that way because of his coverage? My point is that he was definately worth more to us last year....... When you factor in that he was not going to resign with us unless we totally overpaid the whole trading Sammy thing made sense. We simply paid too much for him when we drafted him (I was totally for the trade at the time) Expand Your point is a flimsy opinion based on comparing apples to oranges.
John from Riverside Posted June 25, 2018 Posted June 25, 2018 On 6/25/2018 at 8:09 PM, Jauronimo said: Your point is a flimsy opinion based on comparing apples to oranges. Expand OK
thebandit27 Posted June 25, 2018 Posted June 25, 2018 (edited) On 6/25/2018 at 7:39 PM, Doc said: Gaines didn't cost multiple 1st rounders to get and more than $1.8M for the season. And the Bills made the playoffs with him whereas they don't with Sammy making over $13M for the season. Expand Weird how Gaines is this world-beating CB and Sammy is easily replaceable, yet when both players hit the open market, Sammy broke the bank with a monster contract that made him the 4th highest paid WR in the NFL on a playoff team and Gaines got backup CB money from the worst team in NFL history. Edited June 25, 2018 by thebandit27 2 1
Doc Posted June 25, 2018 Posted June 25, 2018 On 6/25/2018 at 7:50 PM, Jauronimo said: Based on the commutative properties of draft picks, Gaines cost multiple first rounders AND a second round pick to acquire and then he was hurt all year. Expand Must be that common core math. On 6/25/2018 at 8:12 PM, ScottLaw said: How do you figure the Bills don't make the playoffs with Sammy Watkins on the team? Completely ridiculous take. Expand My bad. I thought he would have cost $13M last year. I should have said "they likely wouldn't have made the playoffs." On 6/25/2018 at 8:14 PM, thebandit27 said: Weird how Gaines is this world-beating CB and Sammy is easily replaceable, yet when both players hit the open market, Sammy broke the bank with a monster contract that made him the 4th highest paid WR in the NFL on a playoff team and Gaines got backup CB money from the worst team in NFL history. Expand I couldn't tell you exactly. I figure Gaines' injury problems was a major factor there and Reid is prodigal when it comes to talented but under-performing receivers (see: Maclin, Jeremy).
Jauronimo Posted June 25, 2018 Posted June 25, 2018 On 6/25/2018 at 8:14 PM, thebandit27 said: Weird how Gaines is this world-beating CB and Sammy is easily replaceable, yet when both players hit the open market, Sammy broke the bank with a monster contract that made him the 4th highest paid WR in the NFL on a playoff team and Gaines got backup CB money from the worst team in NFL history. Expand I recall hearing about how JMatt is a number one receiver who is ready to replace Sammy. Now JMatt is getting $170,000 guaranteed and will be battling to make a roster this year.
thebandit27 Posted June 25, 2018 Posted June 25, 2018 On 6/25/2018 at 8:31 PM, Doc said: Must be that common core math. My bad. I thought he would have cost $13M last year. I should have said "they likely wouldn't have made the playoffs." I couldn't tell you exactly. I figure Gaines' injury problems was a major factor there and Reid is prodigal when it comes to talented but under-performing receivers (see: Maclin, Jeremy). Expand Gaines has indeed missed more time than Watkins, but the difference in their compensation is $12M per year. Quite simply: one player was paid among the elite at his position and the other got backup money from the worst team in the game. Not sure I buy that he had more value to Andy Reid thing either considering that the Cowboys were reported to have a competitive offer on the table and Sammy chose KC instead: https://clutchpoints.com/cowboys-rumors-dallas-made-strong-attempt-sign-sammy-watkins/ On 6/25/2018 at 8:33 PM, Jauronimo said: I recall hearing about how JMatt is a number one receiver who is ready to replace Sammy. Now JMatt is getting $170,000 guaranteed and will be battling to make a roster this year. Expand I don't know that many folks really felt that way, though you're right that some said that.
Doc Posted June 25, 2018 Posted June 25, 2018 On 6/25/2018 at 8:41 PM, thebandit27 said: Gaines has indeed missed more time than Watkins, but the difference in their compensation is $12M per year. Quite simply: one player was paid among the elite at his position and the other got backup money from the worst team in the game. Not sure I buy that he had more value to Andy Reid thing either considering that the Cowboys were reported to have a competitive offer on the table and Sammy chose KC instead: https://clutchpoints.com/cowboys-rumors-dallas-made-strong-attempt-sign-sammy-watkins/ Expand I can't take that article seriously. If the money were indeed similar, who do you think Watkins would rather play with/for: Prescott and Dallas or Mahomes and KC?
Mr. WEO Posted June 25, 2018 Posted June 25, 2018 On 6/25/2018 at 8:14 PM, thebandit27 said: Weird how Gaines is this world-beating CB and Sammy is easily replaceable, yet when both players hit the open market, Sammy broke the bank with a monster contract that made him the 4th highest paid WR in the NFL on a playoff team and Gaines got backup CB money from the worst team in NFL history. Expand So now players' greatness is defined by boneheaded contracts that GMs offer them? I guess Mike Evans is the second best reliever alive right now....
Doc Posted June 25, 2018 Posted June 25, 2018 On 6/25/2018 at 8:59 PM, ScottLaw said: How do you figure???? What does Sammy making $13 million have to do with them missing or making the playoffs? Because Gaines wouldn't be here? The guy barely played and could never finish a game. Expand Forget about Sammy making $13M since he wasn't going to be paid that by the Bills last season (it would have been this season, if they picked up his 5th-year option). As for what would have happened if he stayed, I can only surmise. What I do know is they made the playoffs without, and got a 2nd rounder for, him and he was a goner this off-season for sure. As for Gaines, he played in 59% of the snaps. That's hardly "barely played" and the Bills were 1-4 in games he missed. 1
thebandit27 Posted June 25, 2018 Posted June 25, 2018 On 6/25/2018 at 9:20 PM, Mr. WEO said: So now players' greatness is defined by boneheaded contracts that GMs offer them? I guess Mike Evans is the second best reliever alive right now.... Expand Please tell me that you're purposefully obfuscating here One guy signed immediately for huge money with a contender, while another took a while to sign for backup money with a bottom feeder Surely you can see the point On 6/25/2018 at 8:57 PM, Doc said: I can't take that article seriously. If the money were indeed similar, who do you think Watkins would rather play with/for: Prescott and Dallas or Mahomes and KC? Expand I have no idea, but it's hardly the only place that reported Dallas' hot pursuit of Watkins. Ian Rappaport also said that they made a big push and that money wasn't the difference 1
Kelly the Dog Posted June 25, 2018 Posted June 25, 2018 On 6/25/2018 at 8:57 PM, Doc said: I can't take that article seriously. If the money were indeed similar, who do you think Watkins would rather play with/for: Prescott and Dallas or Mahomes and KC? Expand That would be a toss up. If I were him I would probably choose KC overall. Also, Sean McVay said several teams were offering high money for Watkins during FA.
Mr. WEO Posted June 25, 2018 Posted June 25, 2018 On 6/25/2018 at 9:36 PM, thebandit27 said: Please tell me that you're purposefully obfuscating here One guy signed immediately for huge money with a contender, while another took a while to sign for backup money with a bottom feeder Surely you can see the point I have no idea, but it's hardly the only place that reported Dallas' hot pursuit of Watkins. Ian Rappaport also said that they made a big push and that money wasn't the difference Expand Help me out a little more: which one was the guy who was the 4th overall pick in the first for an extra 1st and 4th round pick and which was the 6th round pick? It's so confusing! On 6/25/2018 at 9:42 PM, Kelly the Dog said: That would be a toss up. If I were him I would probably choose KC overall. Also, Sean McVay said several teams were offering high money for Watkins during FA. Expand Why?
Kelly the Dog Posted June 25, 2018 Posted June 25, 2018 Because Andy Reid is a better coach, the Chiefs are going to have a better offense than the Cowboys, Mahomes loves to throw deep, and Dak, IMO, is overrated. The reason I might pick the Cowboys would be because with Witten and Dez gone they lack a big play WR and he may get more targets. 1
Jauronimo Posted June 25, 2018 Posted June 25, 2018 On 6/25/2018 at 10:01 PM, Kelly the Dog said: Because Andy Reid is a better coach, the Chiefs are going to have a better offense than the Cowboys, Mahomes loves to throw deep, and Dak, IMO, is overrated. The reason I might pick the Cowboys would be because with Witten and Dez gone they lack a big play WR and he may get more targets. Expand Dak developed zero rapport with Dez and does not pass downfield. I think choosing Reid's offense over Dak and Garret is an easy choice. 1
Doc Posted June 25, 2018 Posted June 25, 2018 On 6/25/2018 at 9:36 PM, thebandit27 said: I have no idea, but it's hardly the only place that reported Dallas' hot pursuit of Watkins. Ian Rappaport also said that they made a big push and that money wasn't the difference Expand On 6/25/2018 at 9:42 PM, Kelly the Dog said: That would be a toss up. If I were him I would probably choose KC overall. Also, Sean McVay said several teams were offering high money for Watkins during FA. Expand On 6/25/2018 at 10:01 PM, Kelly the Dog said: Because Andy Reid is a better coach, the Chiefs are going to have a better offense than the Cowboys, Mahomes loves to throw deep, and Dak, IMO, is overrated. The reason I might pick the Cowboys would be because with Witten and Dez gone they lack a big play WR and he may get more targets. Expand On 6/25/2018 at 10:07 PM, Jauronimo said: Dak developed zero rapport with Dez and does not pass downfield. I think choosing Reid's offense over Dak and Garret is an easy choice. Expand I'd say that Reid being a better coach would be the only argument in KC's favor, although he's been poor in the post-season. Everything else from the QB, to Sammy getting more targets, to no state income tax, to being much more high-profile team favors Dallas. And as an aside, if they gave Sammy that amount of money, they're going to have a tough time extending Hill after this season. 1
thebandit27 Posted June 25, 2018 Posted June 25, 2018 On 6/25/2018 at 9:56 PM, Mr. WEO said: Help me out a little more: which one was the guy who was the 4th overall pick in the first for an extra 1st and 4th round pick and which was the 6th round pick? It's so confusing! Why? Expand How is that relevant to which guy is the better player?
stinky finger Posted June 26, 2018 Posted June 26, 2018 On 6/25/2018 at 11:32 PM, thebandit27 said: How is that relevant to which guy is the better player? Expand Well, Sammy IS the chosen one, no? Maybe his 3rd stop will prove this out.
Happy Posted June 26, 2018 Posted June 26, 2018 (edited) On 6/25/2018 at 10:01 PM, Kelly the Dog said: Because Andy Reid is a better coach, the Chiefs are going to have a better offense than the Cowboys, Mahomes loves to throw deep, and Dak, IMO, is overrated. The reason I might pick the Cowboys would be because with Witten and Dez gone they lack a big play WR and he may get more targets. Expand I would think this would lead to Sammy being double covered more often. Beasley will also get his share of targets. Edited June 26, 2018 by Happy Gilmore
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