Deranged Rhino Posted June 22, 2018 Share Posted June 22, 2018 1 minute ago, DC Tom said: He did come out and say he supports both House bills. And then left it in Congress' hands. And that seems wrong to you? It does because he's not interested in fact and reason, only emotion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WhitewalkerInPhilly Posted June 22, 2018 Share Posted June 22, 2018 (edited) 19 minutes ago, Deranged Rhino said: Okay, then explain the issue. Ok. While the house can work with a simple majority, the Senate requires 60 votes normally to bring a bill to vote. This does not reflect passage of the bill, as McCain showed with his cloture with the "skinny repeal" back in 2017. Now, the Senate could A) find at least a partial workaround using a Reconciliation measure. This might offer a stop gap, if not true reform. or B) but together a compromise that would be political poison pills to swallow by simply stonewalling. Such as, say, path to citizenship, congressional laws preventing the splitting of families, increased funding for border agents as opposed to the Wall...well, just saying no provides a bludgeon to beat the minority party with in the midterms. Basically, if working together with their counterparts in the Senate (such as the compromise that was rejected, prompting the "shithole countries" incident), the Senate could propose a bill and put it in the House's court. Or, the House could work with members in the Senate to first obtain a compromise and then pass it. But, of course, this would require presidential approval, because it is doubtful enough of the disparate wings of Congress could get the two third majority. Bringing something to pass in the House that dies in the Senate WOULD show obstructionism by Democrats, and that could be a rallying cry. 15 minutes ago, B-Man said: LOL..............such buffoonery. How can you expect anyone to take you seriously when you do the (standard) Lefty exaggeration nonsense......................that used to work, but no more. . I'm sorry...are you surprised that I have at least a basic understanding of legislative processes? I *am* rubbing salt in your eyes, because killing the compromise bill in the House is the best thing the Dems could ask for. It paints the Republicans as a majority that cant get it's sh*t together, the President as a man-child, and it completely relieves them of responsibility because they don't even have to meet their opposition halfway because their opposition can't stagger there themselves. 7 minutes ago, DC Tom said: He did come out and say he supports both House bills. And then left it in Congress' hands. And that seems wrong to you? They put a helicopter beanie on Bill Gates? And a dunce cap on Bono? Really? Because he just tweeted that there was no point in it, and then turned to the midterms. And again, his party introduces legislation in both houses. Edited June 22, 2018 by WhitewalkerInPhilly Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deranged Rhino Posted June 22, 2018 Share Posted June 22, 2018 1 minute ago, WhitewalkerInPhilly said: Basically, if working together with their counterparts in the Senate In other words, they can't do it themselves and your first statement was not true, but instead partisan propaganda. Got it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3rdnlng Posted June 22, 2018 Share Posted June 22, 2018 1 hour ago, KW95 said: I don't have outrage...hahah. He is not a nice man. Just look at the way he handles himself. You guys love turning a blind eye. Its really mind boggling. You denigrate Charles Krauthammer in a thread meant to honor him on his death and Trump's all that bad? How's the economy and unemployment down there in Brazil? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WhitewalkerInPhilly Posted June 22, 2018 Share Posted June 22, 2018 (edited) 12 minutes ago, Deranged Rhino said: In other words, they can't do it themselves and your first statement was not true, but instead partisan propaganda. Got it. 41 minutes ago, WhitewalkerInPhilly said: https://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2018/jun/22/mark-sanford-trumps-midterm-tweet-is-game-over-for/ When you control both houses of Congress, and the Executive branch and can't pass anything... All hail IMPOTUS! Odd, that's not what I said...I said that they control both houses of Congress and the Executive branch. They don't have a SUPER majority, but A) It means that they still have the onus on introducing legislation, which they haven't and B) nothing is stopping them from passing a bill in the House that forces their opposition to either agree, or allow them to shift blame for the whole thing onto their opponent. C) They so far have prevented introducing legislation that deals with individual problems rather than sweeping reform. The fact that they can't, or haven't done any, while the IMPOTUS complains about the opposition makes them seem like their heads are so far up their asses that they can see daylight only by complaining. Edited June 22, 2018 by WhitewalkerInPhilly Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
row_33 Posted June 22, 2018 Share Posted June 22, 2018 Congress is about stalling and slowing down drastic changes, especially in the Senate thank goodness Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deranged Rhino Posted June 22, 2018 Share Posted June 22, 2018 1 minute ago, WhitewalkerInPhilly said: Odd, that's not what I said...I said that they control both houses of Congress and the Executive branch. They don't have a SUPER majority, but. Yeah, you left the last bit out of your first post - hence why it's inaccurate and just propaganda. Your post implied they could pass whatever they wish because they control both houses. This is wrong, and based on your follow ups it's clear you aren't interested in fixing this problem or the truth - just scoring points for your team ... or you've allowed your emotions to be manipulated to the point of not caring about truth by the very people you're carrying political water for. Either way you're spouting half truths as full truths and hoping no one notices. ********************************* https://www.whitehouse.gov/live/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tiberius Posted June 22, 2018 Author Share Posted June 22, 2018 First, they drove her out of a Mexican restaurant, now people are protesting against Homeland Security Secretary Kirstjen Nielsen at her Virginia home by blasting out audio of crying immigrant children on her street. HuffPost editor Philip Lewis tweeted video from the scene, saying: “Protestors are outside of DHS Secretary Kirstjen Nielsen’s Alexandria townhouse, playing audio of the detained children. She appears to be still be home.” Nielsen has been the brunt of criticism for defending the Trump administration’s forced-separation policy, which provoked fury and international condemnation this week. Lewis reports the crowd was chanting “No justice, no sleep!” and “Free the kids!” and photos showed demonstrators holding signs branding Nielsen a “child snatcher.” Nielsen was driven out of a Mexican restaurant Wednesday in Washington, D.C. by protesters. https://www.thedailybeast.com/protesters-blast-audio-of-crying-immigrant-kids-at-dhs-sec-kirstjen-niilsens-home 37 minutes ago, DC Tom said: He did come out and say he supports both House bills. And then left it in Congress' hands. And that seems wrong to you? They put a helicopter beanie on Bill Gates? And a dunce cap on Bono? Boo hoo, the media is being unfair to baby snatchers!! Go cry in your pillow 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deranged Rhino Posted June 22, 2018 Share Posted June 22, 2018 Click for full report: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WhitewalkerInPhilly Posted June 22, 2018 Share Posted June 22, 2018 4 minutes ago, Deranged Rhino said: Yeah, you left the last bit out of your first post - hence why it's inaccurate and just propaganda. Your post implied they could pass whatever they wish because they control both houses. This is wrong, and based on your follow ups it's clear you aren't interested in fixing this problem or the truth - just scoring points for your team ... or you've allowed your emotions to be manipulated to the point of not caring about truth by the very people you're carrying political water for. Either way you're spouting half truths as full truths and hoping no one notices. You mean that I left out the intricacies of reconciliation measures? OK maybe. But let's not pretend that the Republican party isn't in the driver's seat. They have near complete numerical control. If they could be in lockstep throughout their party, getting a bill through the House would be a breeze. They also hold leverage that would kill their opponents in midterms, if they could get their act together, but they can't get their act together. If they had a President who knew a dam thing about leading, or how to broker deals in legislature, they are coming from an incredible place of power. In the meanwhile, the things that have caused all these issues, have been issued from the EXECTUTIVE branch. Attempting to set an arbitrary deadline on DACA. Exectutive. Rejecting a Senate compromise that would have fixed the problem. Trump. The policy of family separation being an Obama or Clinton policy? Lies(http://www.politifact.com/punditfact/statements/2018/jun/19/matt-schlapp/no-donald-trumps-separation-immigrant-families-was/) (http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/statements/2018/jun/21/donald-trump/trump-changes-course-stops-family-separation-borde/) That family separation could only be reversed by Congress...whoops! In every step of the way as the issue has been pushed, it has been Trump and his cronies muddying the process. Maybe you like that. But don't lie about it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
row_33 Posted June 22, 2018 Share Posted June 22, 2018 9 minutes ago, WhitewalkerInPhilly said: You mean that I left out the intricacies of reconciliation measures? OK maybe. But let's not pretend that the Republican party isn't in the driver's seat. They have near complete numerical control. If they could be in lockstep throughout their party, getting a bill through the House would be a breeze. They also hold leverage that would kill their opponents in midterms, if they could get their act together, but they can't get their act together. If they had a President who knew a dam thing about leading, or how to broker deals in legislature, they are coming from an incredible place of power. In the meanwhile, the things that have caused all these issues, have been issued from the EXECTUTIVE branch. Attempting to set an arbitrary deadline on DACA. Exectutive. Rejecting a Senate compromise that would have fixed the problem. Trump. The policy of family separation being an Obama or Clinton policy? Lies(http://www.politifact.com/punditfact/statements/2018/jun/19/matt-schlapp/no-donald-trumps-separation-immigrant-families-was/) (http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/statements/2018/jun/21/donald-trump/trump-changes-course-stops-family-separation-borde/) That family separation could only be reversed by Congress...whoops! In every step of the way as the issue has been pushed, it has been Trump and his cronies muddying the process. Maybe you like that. But don't lie about it. there's not that much to do, sorry if you expect 12 items to rot your socks off just keep appointing judges who can read and grasp the Law and it will be alright Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deranged Rhino Posted June 22, 2018 Share Posted June 22, 2018 1 minute ago, WhitewalkerInPhilly said: You mean that I left out the intricacies of reconciliation measures? OK maybe. But let's not pretend that the Republican party isn't in the driver's seat. Let's not pretend they can pass anything they wish without at least some support from the other side. Let's not pretend that the Republican party is ONE party - it's splintered into numerous factions. Two HUGE things to leave out, WhiteWalker. It impacts everything else you said afterwards. They think you're stupid, WhiteWalker. They do. They think if they tweak your emotions enough, if they trip your anti-Trump programming, they can also get you to forgo logic and critical thinking. Don't make it easy for them. Do your own homework and think for yourself. The issue a few days ago was families being separated. Now that's fixed and it's still not enough for the people you're carrying the water for. Why is that? Because they want OPEN BORDERS, nothing less. And the only people who want open borders are those who are profiting directly either from human trafficking, drug smuggling, or the votes those open borders will bring. Again, they think you're stupid. Don't help them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ALF Posted June 22, 2018 Share Posted June 22, 2018 I would be surprised if republicans would have 60 senate seats after Nov elections. If they don't change the rules to simple majority it makes more sense to reach a compromise now. The democrats in Feb 2018 wanted What do Democrats want? By Dara Linddara@vox.com Feb 12, 2018 This one’s easy. Democrats want to pass a bill that allows unauthorized immigrants who came to the US as children to become US citizens — not only current DACA recipients, but other DREAMers who were too old or too young for DACA; whose DACA expired and didn’t renew; or who didn’t apply for DACA (the people Chief of Staff John Kelly characterized last week as “too lazy to get off their asses”). Senate Minority Leader Chuck Schumer reportedly offered the White House $19 billion in funds for the “wall” in exchange for a path to citizenship. But Democrats might not be willing to make the changes to asylum policy that Republicans call enforcement “loopholes” — since that would, in essence, reduce the number of humanitarian immigrants able to come to the US in future. Most Democrats are firm that they don’t want serious cuts to legal immigration. Many are okay with proposals (like Graham-Durbin) that eliminate the diversity visa lottery, but only if those 45,000 annual visas are allocated to other types of immigrants — and preferably, only if some visas are still being set aside for immigrants from countries that don’t send many people to the US. And Democrats are holding firm against plans, like the White House’s framework, that would simply eliminate whole categories of family-based immigration and redefine “immediate family” to exclude adult children or siblings of US citizens. https://www.vox.com/2018/2/12/17003524/immigration-congress-daca-trump Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DC Tom Posted June 22, 2018 Share Posted June 22, 2018 12 minutes ago, Deranged Rhino said: Click for full report: The responses to that are...idiotic. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TakeYouToTasker Posted June 22, 2018 Share Posted June 22, 2018 (edited) 57 minutes ago, WhitewalkerInPhilly said: You mean that I left out the intricacies of reconciliation measures? OK maybe. But let's not pretend that the Republican party isn't in the driver's seat. They have near complete numerical control. If they could be in lockstep throughout their party, getting a bill through the House would be a breeze. They also hold leverage that would kill their opponents in midterms, if they could get their act together, but they can't get their act together. If they had a President who knew a dam thing about leading, or how to broker deals in legislature, they are coming from an incredible place of power. In the meanwhile, the things that have caused all these issues, have been issued from the EXECTUTIVE branch. Attempting to set an arbitrary deadline on DACA. Exectutive. Rejecting a Senate compromise that would have fixed the problem. Trump. The policy of family separation being an Obama or Clinton policy? Lies(http://www.politifact.com/punditfact/statements/2018/jun/19/matt-schlapp/no-donald-trumps-separation-immigrant-families-was/) (http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/statements/2018/jun/21/donald-trump/trump-changes-course-stops-family-separation-borde/) That family separation could only be reversed by Congress...whoops! In every step of the way as the issue has been pushed, it has been Trump and his cronies muddying the process. Maybe you like that. But don't lie about it. The flaw in your logic is that the Republican Party is not a monolith like the Democratic Party. It is a loosely cobbled together coalition formed from disparate groups, linked largely because our two party system would otherwise disenfranchise them, and because they are all ideologically opposed to the platform of the Democrats. Libertarians, social conservatives, the religious right, neo-conservatives, TEA partiers, old guard Republicans, RINOs... They're all under one big tent, but represent very different moral philosophies and beliefs about the proper role of government. Democrats, on the other hand, work in lock step in order to consolidate power, and to use the strong arm of government to bludgeon their political enemies. You're asking that Republicans behave like Democrats. You should know that they won't, because the one thing binding them is that they oppose Democrats. Further, you should be glad that they don't, because having one party that behaves that way is bad enough. Edited June 22, 2018 by TakeYouToTasker 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WhitewalkerInPhilly Posted June 22, 2018 Share Posted June 22, 2018 46 minutes ago, Deranged Rhino said: Let's not pretend they can pass anything they wish without at least some support from the other side. Let's not pretend that the Republican party is ONE party - it's splintered into numerous factions. Two HUGE things to leave out, WhiteWalker. It impacts everything else you said afterwards. 36 minutes ago, TakeYouToTasker said: The flaw in your logic is that the Republican Party is not a monolith like the Democratic Party. It is a loosely cobbled together coalition formed from disparate groups, linked largely because our two party system would otherwise disenfranchise them, and because they are all ideologically opposed to the platform of the Democrats. Libertarians, social conservatives, the religious right, neo-conservatives, TEA partiers, old guard Republicans, RINOs... They're all under one big tent, but represent very different moral philosophies and beliefs about the proper role of government. Democrats, on the other hand, work in lock step in order to consolidate power, and to use the strong arm of government to bludgeon their political enemies. You're asking that Republicans behave like Democrats. You should know that they won't, because the one thing binding them is that oppose Democrats. Further, you should be glad that they don't, because having one party that behaves that way is bad enough. Ok, I am splitting this, because this is very, very special. What you're telling me, is that after years, years of steadfastedly deciding what they wanted to fight against (Obama era policies), simply being united in their disapproval, they finally sweep into power. They dismantle the Paris Climate Change treaty, pull out of a deal that kept Iran from obtaining nuclear weapons that was working, gutted a flawed healthcare system, and decided to kill the status quo of DACA recipients...all without a plan of what to actually do. And so it's the responsibility of the people they consistently undermined...to help them to do what they want? This is like living with a roommate who decides to run around the house drunk, pissing, sh*tting and vomiting everywhere, and being told you're an !@#$ for not cleaning up the mess. You might actually do it, because you don't want to live in a house that smells like a dumpster, but how the hell do you leave the drunk !@#$ in charge of anything? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deranged Rhino Posted June 22, 2018 Share Posted June 22, 2018 6 minutes ago, WhitewalkerInPhilly said: Ok, I am splitting this, because this is very, very special. What you're telling me, is that after years, years of steadfastedly deciding what they... "They". Again, there's not one Republican Party. Trump's election wasn't about republicans - most republicans in power resisted him. Youre exposing how badly misinformed and propagandized you are. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WhitewalkerInPhilly Posted June 22, 2018 Share Posted June 22, 2018 56 minutes ago, Deranged Rhino said: They think you're stupid, WhiteWalker. They do. They think if they tweak your emotions enough, if they trip your anti-Trump programming, they can also get you to forgo logic and critical thinking. Don't make it easy for them. Do your own homework and think for yourself. The issue a few days ago was families being separated. Now that's fixed and it's still not enough for the people you're carrying the water for. Why is that? Because they want OPEN BORDERS, nothing less. And the only people who want open borders are those who are profiting directly either from human trafficking, drug smuggling, or the votes those open borders will bring. Again, they think you're stupid. Don't help them. You know who I think assumes I'm stupid? I think it's the people who want to look at our economy, an economy where our GDP grew every year since 2009, with trade all along the world and say "You know who is stealing your job? Mexicans. Mexicans are why the owner of your company shut it down and relocated it to Mexico. Clearly, not the owner of the company. You should have given him more tax breaks because he was only making 8 million instead of 12 every year." If you want to say that you don't want open borders, I agree. There should be limits, and realistic reform. A complete open border makes no sense. But saying that we are advocating for human trafficking, drug smuggling and vote mongering is retarded. The Wall doesn't stop drug smuggling. Smuggling pathways are far more intricate, and our ports are a far easier way to enter than that disgrace of an idea. Human trafficking will still happen, because they will look for other routes, and internal policing should be far more effective. You want to say that we need to rework the immigration process, increase border security while making citizenship or legal residence more in line with the reality of the situation? I wholeheartedly agree. But this is not that. It's dog whistling. It's making his base feel nice and big about themselves, about how it's not their fault for being in a bad place, and how things will be so much better once Miguel is dragged from his home. 9 minutes ago, Deranged Rhino said: "They". Again, there's not one Republican Party. Trump's election wasn't about republicans - most republicans in power resisted him. Youre exposing how badly misinformed and propagandized you are. They were sure pretty effing united in ripping apart Obama era policies, and giving themselves nice big tax cuts. But again...I don't see any other conclusion from you're saying that doesn't lead me to other than "Republicans are a dysfunctional mess who don't have the capacity to govern" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TakeYouToTasker Posted June 22, 2018 Share Posted June 22, 2018 (edited) 1 hour ago, WhitewalkerInPhilly said: Ok, I am splitting this, because this is very, very special. What you're telling me, is that after years, years of steadfastedly deciding what they wanted to fight against (Obama era policies), simply being united in their disapproval, they finally sweep into power. You're working off flawed assumptions. They were united in the notion that the government should not be involved in the things you've listed. They weren't united in the notion that they should be replaced with something, only that what was done was terrible, and needed to be dismantled. Again, you're asking them to behave like Democrats. They swept into power because the people agreed with them, that these things should be done away with. Quote They dismantle the Paris Climate Change treaty Again, flawed assumption. The United States was never party to the Paris Climate Accords because the last administration didn't work through the proper channels to become a signator to the treaty. This was one more item in a list of failures of the Obama Presidency. Ending this sham was a net positive for the American economy and for our sovereignty. Quote pull out of a deal that kept Iran from obtaining nuclear weapons that was working The deal was not preventing Iran from obtaining nuclear weapons. It empowered the Mullahs, who did exactly as they pleased, oppressed their people, and continued the enrichment process. This is documented. You'll also likely find out, over the coming months and years, that a fair portion of the cash the President illegally gave to the Mullahs made in back into his own pocket in the form of a kickbacks. Quote gutted a flawed healthcare system You mean that they didn't take unConstitutional action to advance an unConstitutional law? I'm sorry we don't live in the dictatorship you wish we did. We live in a Constitutional republic. As such, it's good when our leaders follow the Constitution. Quote and decided to kill the status quo of DACA recipients Again, we don't live under a dictatorship. We have a legal system through which our policy must be processed. DACA was a gross overstep of executive powers. It's a good thing when the government obeys the law. I understand you have a problem with that, but I'm not interested in living under your dystopian dictatorship. Don't like it? Amend the Constitution and change the law. Quote ...all without a plan of what to actually do. Again, Republicans are not Democrats. They don't seek top down solutions enforced at the barrel of a gun. The goal was to dismantle the things that were bad, and to force the government back into it's proper Constitutional role. IE. the Legislature is supposed to legislate Quote And so it's the responsibility of the people they consistently undermined...to help them to do what they want? Yes, it is the responsibility of the Legislature to legislate. It's not the Republican's fault that the Democrats declined to do so, and instead decided to govern illegally by fiat. Perhaps had they done their jobs properly, instead of elevating President Obama to govern by decree, they wouldn't be having this problem. The Legislature is supposed to legislate. Democrats in Congress refuse to do so because they'll lose political cover and be run out of office. It's easier to protect their fiefdoms that way. Quote This is like living with a roommate who decides to run around the house drunk, pissing, sh*tting and vomiting everywhere, and being told you're an !@#$ for not cleaning up the mess. You might actually do it, because you don't want to live in a house that smells like a dumpster, but how the hell do you leave the drunk !@#$ in charge of anything? That's exactly what it's been like for the past 40 years or so, which is why the current President is draining the swamp. The children are finally back in their play pens, and the adults are back in charge. I know it's hard, but please do your best to enjoy this era of prosperity. Edited June 22, 2018 by TakeYouToTasker 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deranged Rhino Posted June 22, 2018 Share Posted June 22, 2018 4 minutes ago, WhitewalkerInPhilly said: You know who I think assumes I'm stupid? I think it's the people who want to look at our economy, an economy where our GDP grew every year since 2009, with trade all along the world and say "You know who is stealing your job? Mexicans. Mexicans are why the owner of your company shut it down and relocated it to Mexico. Clearly, not the owner of the company. You should have given him more tax breaks because he was only making 8 million instead of 12 every year." Proving my point that you're too propagandized to care about a reasonable discussion. Check. 5 minutes ago, WhitewalkerInPhilly said: But saying that we are advocating for human trafficking, drug smuggling and vote mongering is retarded. I never said you were advocating for that. I said the politicians advocating for it, whose water you are carrying unknowingly, are doing so. This is a fact, not a speculation or opinion. Its interesting though you're so quick to choose teams. It's us versus them in your head. Which is how they want you thinking. Proving my point AGAIN. 8 minutes ago, WhitewalkerInPhilly said: They were sure pretty effing united in ripping apart Obama era policies, and giving themselves nice big tax cuts. "They" again. You're wrong. It wasn't a monolithic republican base that did that. Trump did it himself because Obama used a pen and a phone to make his legacy instead of Congress. Trump is trying to restore that balance - you are fighting it because you're being fed propaganda and clearly cannot distinguish between fiction and reality. They think you're stupid, WhiteWalker. Stop proving their point. 10 minutes ago, WhitewalkerInPhilly said: But again...I don't see any other conclusion from you're saying that doesn't lead me to other than "Republicans are a dysfunctional mess who don't have the capacity to govern" Proving my point AGAIN. The republicans are not in lock step. There is a cleansing going on in politics. It's hitting both sides of the aisle. Keep proving them right WhiteWalker. They think you're too stupid to see through the spin. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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