ESPN's Matt Bowen Went Back College Film to Assess Each 1st Round QB

[CuddyDark]

1 minute ago, C.Biscuit97 said:

I think you’re underestimating how good Cam was and he flat out dominated the best conference in college football.  I wish Allen was on Cam’s level and didn’t play in the MWC.  Cam was really really good.

Not at all. I don't think he's as good as Cam in that kind of offense but I think that kind of offense would be the best thing for Allen. Foles ran this offense last year, he's not Cam but it's an easier offense for the start of a career.

[C.Biscuit97]

1 minute ago, CuddyDark said:

Not at all. I don't think he's as good as Cam in that kind of offense but I think that kind of offense would be the best thing for Allen. Foles ran this offense last year, he's not Cam but it's an easier offense for the start of a career.

I just think people’s expectations for Allen are kinda insane right now. I’ve seen Brett Farve, John Elway, and Newton comparisons.  This guy is taking one of the biggest leaps a top pick can take.  

 

This is guy needs to sit right away and not get his confidence crushed with this subpar looking group.  

[Hapless Bills Fan]

6 hours ago, Golden Goat said:

 

I can't swear to it, but I believe that's against the Eula of this board. Perhaps a mod can clarify.

 

Please don't copy and paste the whole article.  That's against TOS here and violates copyright law as well.

However, "fair use" quotes are fine - a couple of relevant paragraphs from a longer article or a couple of sentence quotes from a short one.

 

3 hours ago, CuddyDark said:

He's big enough to take the punishment while he's a kid. Eagles used Foles that way and it worked well. Allen is a copy of those players. I think it would help his career early. Gives him a half field reads. Takes players from the middle of the field. Even the Steelers did some of that half field stuff with Ben.

 

Eagles "using Foles that way" resulted in a Grade I concussion the first season, and a broken shoulder that cost him 8 games his second season (and may have impacted him his following season with the Rams)

 

Josh Allen has already broken the same shoulder 2x (once in HS, once at Wyoming) then added in a soft tissue injury (AC sprain) that kept him out of a couple games.  The first Wyoming shoulder injury is said to have involved the bone being broken in 7 places and repaired with a plate and multiple screws.

 

So how about if we DON'T count on Allen to "take the punishment" or use him as the Eagles used Foles?  Else maybe we'll be wondering why we "can't have nice things"

 

 

 

[Alphadawg7]

29 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

Please don't copy and paste the whole article.  That's against TOS here and violates copyright law as well.

However, "fair use" quotes are fine - a couple of relevant paragraphs from a longer article or a couple of sentence quotes from a short one.

 

 

Eagles "using Foles that way" resulted in a Grade I concussion the first season, and a broken shoulder that cost him 8 games his second season (and may have impacted him his following season with the Rams)

 

Josh Allen has already broken the same shoulder 2x (once in HS, once at Wyoming) then added in a soft tissue injury (AC sprain) that kept him out of a couple games.  The first Wyoming shoulder injury is said to have involved the bone being broken in 7 places and repaired with a plate and multiple screws.

 

So how about if we DON'T count on Allen to "take the punishment" or use him as the Eagles used Foles?  Else maybe we'll be wondering why we "can't have nice things"

 

 

 

 

This times 1000.  Its amazing how everyone is trying to turn this kid into Cam Newton...they are not the same player nor should we want him to be, 

[Mr_Robotulism]

5 hours ago, eball said:

 

I'm sorry, he just lost all credibility by -- AGAIN -- going back to completion percentage as the best indicator of accuracy.  Bye Felicia.

Allen lost all credibility when he couldn't hit a 5' by 5' target from ten yards away at Senior Bowl practice 

[transplantbillsfan]

Sounds similar to Big Ben's rookie year as far as suggestions to Dabol: heavy lean on the run game and play-action and it forces a focus on footwork and takes some of the weight off Allen's shoulders in year 1 of learning.

 

Win Win! 

[Fadingpain]

"Plus, playing in Buffalo, Allen has the juice to cut the ball through the wind, rain, sleet, ice and snow coming off Lake Erie."

 

This crap yet again!  This is simply not a thing.  If this guy thinks it is, I'm not sure why we are reading what he thinks of Josh Allen.

 

PS:  Allen's weaknesses greatly transcend mere inaccuracy issues.  Anticipation, timing, reading defenses, most of the mental components of the position are sometimes there and sometimes not there with him.   

 

The Bills will need to tear him down to nothing and re-teach him now to be a QB.  That almost never works.

 

Don't take my word for it, look at the data.

 

 

 

 

 

[Green Lightning]

13 minutes ago, Fadingpain said:

"Plus, playing in Buffalo, Allen has the juice to cut the ball through the wind, rain, sleet, ice and snow coming off Lake Erie."

 

This crap yet again!  This is simply not a thing.  If this guy thinks it is, I'm not sure why we are reading what he thinks of Josh Allen.

 

PS:  Allen's weaknesses greatly transcend mere inaccuracy issues.  Anticipation, timing, reading defenses, most of the mental components of the position are sometimes there and sometimes not there with him.   

 

The Bills will need to tear him down to nothing and re-teach him now to be a QB.  That almost never works.

 

Don't take my word for it, look at the data.

 

 

 

 

 

This pretty much sums up how I feel about it too. But, I'm hoping beyond all hope that I am wrong and can eat me some Crow. I do hope is a better quarterback than an artist, boy that logo he drew was brutal!

[DisplacedBillsFan]

21 hours ago, BrotherChazz said:

Game that shows his ceiling: The first half of Wyoming's bowl game win over Central Michigan showcased why Allen was the No. 7 overall pick and reminded us that he has the highest upside of any quarterback in the 2018 class. I'm talking about the natural tools at the position. Just look at the skinny post Allen throws in a tight window down the field (check out the video clip below). Play-pass with a quick climb in the pocket, and then deliver an absolute laser for the score. That's a throw only Allen could make when compared to the rest of these quarterbacks. He also showcased his athleticism on an ad-libbed red zone touchdown pass and followed that with a perfect deep ball throw for another score. Take a shot, and let it go. With a 6-foot-5, 237-pound frame, mobility and tremendous arm strength that absolutely pops on the tape, Allen has an enormous ceiling as a pro -- if he keeps developing.

 

play

0:40

Allen shows off NFL arm with TD strike

Wyoming's Josh Allen drops back and zips a strike to Jared Scott for the 23-yard score to go up 7-0.

Game that shows his floor: Allen's two games last season against Power 5 competition -- at Iowa and vs. Oregon -- stand out because of the negative habits that appear on tape. In both of those losses, Allen struggled to find any consistency, and his accuracy suffered. He also needs to work on developing a changeup to put more touch on throws to complement that elite velocity in his arm. This is a raw player who has a tendency to sail the ball and miss with poor placement due to his footwork. That will lead to interceptions in the NFL. As I said above, the natural tools are there. In games against tougher competition, however, Allen created more question as to when or if he will reach his ceiling.

Allen's best trait: Arm talent. There's no question here. That strong arm will allow Allen to challenge NFL defenses in the vertical passing game and attack tighter windows on intermediate throws. Plus, playing in Buffalo, Allen has the juice to cut the ball through the wind, rain, sleet, ice and snow coming off Lake Erie.

Where Allen must improve: Consistent accuracy. Allen has to take major steps in his accuracy to be a successful pro quarterback. It's that simple. He completed just 56.3 percent of his passes in 2017, which was only a slight increase from 56 percent in 2016. There's some work to do for Allen and the Bills here.

Tip for Bills offensive coordinator Brian Daboll: When Allen's feet are set, he can flat-out rip the ball and put it on target. Too often, though, Allen leans on his arm talent. Daboll and his staff must focus on Allen's footwork for the rookie to progress as a more accurate thrower in a system that can be catered to maximize his ability. Mix in pro and spread concepts that showcase Allen's movement skills, along with his ability to expose the top of secondaries off play-action.

So everything that's already been noted 1000 times. Cool.

[OldTimeAFLGuy]

23 hours ago, BrotherChazz said:

 

If thats the case, I'll remove what I posted. I thought it was that you couldn't post an article in its entirety. 

 

...I think you're fine as long as you identify the source and author of the article.......or if it's a portion of the article, I usually include "excerpt from article on ESPN-by --- -----"......I could be dead wrong though..........

[BB@Shooter]

On 5/24/2018 at 2:25 PM, C.Biscuit97 said:

I think you’re underestimating how good Cam was and he flat out dominated the best conference in college football.  I wish Allen was on Cam’s level and didn’t play in the MWC.  Cam was really really good.

Give Allen some tools and see what he can do. No one ever stops and looks how the other qbs would do playing for Wyoming. It is a good thing Allen was so durable. Rosen playing behind Wyoming line is laughable.

15 hours ago, Fadingpain said:

"Plus, playing in Buffalo, Allen has the juice to cut the ball through the wind, rain, sleet, ice and snow coming off Lake Erie."

 

This crap yet again!  This is simply not a thing.  If this guy thinks it is, I'm not sure why we are reading what he thinks of Josh Allen.

 

PS:  Allen's weaknesses greatly transcend mere inaccuracy issues.  Anticipation, timing, reading defenses, most of the mental components of the position are sometimes there and sometimes not there with him.   

 

The Bills will need to tear him down to nothing and re-teach him now to be a QB.  That almost never works.

 

Don't take my word for it, look at the data.

 

 

 

 

 

How about you showing the data? Just so you know, anyone can make stats fit their agenda.

[nbbillsfan]

16 hours ago, Fadingpain said:

"Plus, playing in Buffalo, Allen has the juice to cut the ball through the wind, rain, sleet, ice and snow coming off Lake Erie."

 

This crap yet again!  This is simply not a thing.  If this guy thinks it is, I'm not sure why we are reading what he thinks of Josh Allen.

 

PS:  Allen's weaknesses greatly transcend mere inaccuracy issues.  Anticipation, timing, reading defenses, most of the mental components of the position are sometimes there and sometimes not there with him.   

 

The Bills will need to tear him down to nothing and re-teach him now to be a QB.  That almost never works.

 

Don't take my word for it, look at the data.

 

 

 

 

 

 

What data? While I agree with your assessment, there is no data that truly measures anticipation, timing or football IQ. While I agree that will likely be why Allen fails (if he does fail), that is true for most quarterbacks. Also, there are very very few QB’s who you could confidently say excelled in those areas coming out of college.

 

however, in my opinion there are a few things a qb needs to develop these skills: intelligence, hard work, and talent. Allen has all three. Whether he puts it all together, who knows.

[CuddyDark]

On ‎5‎/‎24‎/‎2018 at 7:55 PM, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

Please don't copy and paste the whole article.  That's against TOS here and violates copyright law as well.

However, "fair use" quotes are fine - a couple of relevant paragraphs from a longer article or a couple of sentence quotes from a short one.

 

 

Eagles "using Foles that way" resulted in a Grade I concussion the first season, and a broken shoulder that cost him 8 games his second season (and may have impacted him his following season with the Rams)

 

Josh Allen has already broken the same shoulder 2x (once in HS, once at Wyoming) then added in a soft tissue injury (AC sprain) that kept him out of a couple games.  The first Wyoming shoulder injury is said to have involved the bone being broken in 7 places and repaired with a plate and multiple screws.

 

So how about if we DON'T count on Allen to "take the punishment" or use him as the Eagles used Foles?  Else maybe we'll be wondering why we "can't have nice things"

 

 

 

You should look into the difference between what Chip Kelly asks the QB to do as a runner and what Brian Daboll, Shula and Pederson asks the QB to do as a runner. There is a huge difference in running for the QB and in blocking for the QB.

[Hapless Bills Fan]

On 5/24/2018 at 12:59 PM, BrotherChazz said:

 

If thats the case, I'll remove what I posted. I thought it was that you couldn't post an article in its entirety. 

 

You're correct, don't post an entire article.  How much is "fair use" is a judgement call - if the article is about 6 QB and you're posting excerpts of 1 QB (ie 1:6) that's prob OK.  Look at it from the viewpoint of "enough info to spur discussion or back up your comments" vs circumventing a paywall/TOPS (taking other people's stuff)

 

[Perry Turtle]

On 5/24/2018 at 4:31 PM, C.Biscuit97 said:

I just think people’s expectations for Allen are kinda insane right now. I’ve seen Brett Farve, John Elway, and Newton comparisons.  This guy is taking one of the biggest leaps a top pick can take.  

 

This is guy needs to sit right away and not get his confidence crushed with this subpar looking group.  

The Bills invested high draft picks to move to 12 and then 7, and passsed on Mahomes and Watson last season to draft Allen.  I think Bills fans expectations are dead on.

 

And the front office needs to know ASAP whether they're dealing with the next Favre or Jake Locker.